Future of the CSX A Line between Orlando and Jacksonville?

I thought I read somewhere that FEC has plans for this corridor???

Produce, Juice, fuel, feed, and intermodal traffic are among the industries that use the CSX freight rail lines in Florida. I've seen long freight trains on the CSX Jacksonville  to Miami line. That line doesn't stop in Orlando but goes all the way to Miami and there is also a branch that heads to Tampa.  This line is a major transportation link for goods heading North and they host 3 Amtrak trains as daily customers. The Silver Star , Silver Meteor, and Auto Train use it.

This was in our small Erwin TN news paper today. Looks like good old CSX is making some bucks this quarter. Thought you guys might want to read it.

The S Line is very busy still and CSX has done many improvements too it in the last few years like the new double track in Ocala and Wildwood to handle the new traffic from the reroutes post Sun Rail.  North of Orlando post Sun Rail outside of a few mixed freight trains it is mostly Amtrak.  That is why I am wondering if CSX plans to sell it.  The other rumor I have been hearing is that once the connection in West Palm Beach is improved between the FEC and current Tri Rail tracks that the FEC wants to start running freight trains along the current Tri Rail tracks too. This is because of the capacity constraints coming up in the next few years because of All Aboard Florida and Tri Rail might start operating trains on the FEC too. I do not know if it will happen though since it is just a rumor.

SunRail has expanded their weekday service beyond just the initial rush hour and mid-day  periods with the addition of 2 later evening trains in each direction which further reduced the time available for CSX to run freight trains on the “A” line.  Local residents have been requesting that SunRail add some weekend service which SunRail says they are considering.  That would obviously have to be approved by CSX as the agreement for the sale of the 61 miles of teh "A" line right-of-way to the State of Florida for SunRail allows CSX to run freight trains on the weekends and in the middle of the night on weekdays.  If CSX approves SunRail adding any weekend service that would result in CSX transferring even more freight trains to the “S” route.

 

But I doubt if CSX would sell the entire line between Jax and Orlando as there are certainly enough major industry customers from Jax to as far south as Palatka to justify CSX keeping the line at least that far south.  

 

Bill

How is CSX's relationship with Tri Rail down in South Florida with operating freight trains on their track?  Can they only operate on nights and weekends their too? What are the current industries along the A Line along this route?  I know it is very expensive to maintain a route to a certain standard especially when Amtrak uses it as a main route for their New York to Miami service and the Auto Train.  It reminds me a little bit of the situation the BNSF is in with wanting to Raton Pass because only Amtrak uses it and the BNSF does not use it as through route anymore.  I know the A Line has more industries along the route and a interchange with the Florida Central but is that enough traffic to warrant spending the money to keep it to a certain standard.  Another scenario that could happen is the State of Florida buys the whole route so they can continue to maintain it well enough for Amtrak and maybe more commuter rail.

I know in palatka fl there was a  pulp plant and some wood product mills and such with spurs off the a line in the 80s and early 90s. Dont know if they see action anymore or even exist. I live in the ocala fl area within a mile of the s line. Since csx started rerouting the freights from the east through here id say we get up to 8 trains a day more than we used to after the rerouting from the a line to the s line. So the s line sees anywhere from 20 to 28 freights daily (depending on the day). However with all this freight traffic amtrak is a thing of the past on the s line.

Ocala is starting to become a pretty decent train watching spot with all the extra traffic on it.  It is unfortunate that the S-Line will probably never have passenger service on it because of it being the only freight through route in Florida now for CSX post Sun Rail.  I think the only way we would see Amtrak back on the S Line would be the state or federal government would basically have to fund completely double tracking the S-Line from Baldwin to Vitis but that would never happen in a million years.  With the population Growth around the Villages, Ocala and Gainesville in the last 20 years it is kind of unfortunate we lost passenger service.  Another wild card could be the Norfolk Southern buying that part of the A Line and building an intermodal facility in Deland to serve Central Florida.  That would give CSX some competition for Intermodal Service in Central Florida. 

My question is why did CSX abandon the upper part of the Miami sub (would fit nicely into their current plans).  And abandon the west coast sub of the ACL...now trains have to go to Baldwin then head back west to Tampa if coming from Tallahassee.  

I live near the line between JAX and Palatka.
There is a power plant in Palatka that receives 2-3 train loads of coal each week. And yes, CSX does serve the Georgia Pacific Mill in Palatka.
This line used to serve the Power Plant near Orlando. Not sure if they route those trains through Ocala or not.

What did CSX abandon in Miami?  I know after Tri-Rail was created they scaled back their freight operations down there and all of their container traffic goes over the FEC to Miami from Jacksonville.  Back in the day it made sense to abandon the West Coast Sub because freight traffic could not support three through routes in Florida.  I wonder how many trains through trains were still running on it when it parts of it were abandoned in the 80's.  The advantage it would have offered though if it was not partially abandoned it would have been nice alternate route from Waycross to Tampa and would have made it more likely to have Amtrak back on the S Line again.  I know the Florida Northern operates part of what is left of the West Coast Sub to the coal power plant to Crystal River.  If that traffic goes away I wonder if they will completely abandon it.  

 That is good their are still some industries left along the A Line in that section.  I know back in the day the Southern and later Norfolk Southern had a route all the way to Palakta that they cut back to Lake City in the late 80's.  It will be interesting to see though what CSX does with the A Line in that section in the next few years.  For example CSX leased part of the old West Coast Sub to the Florida Northern and leased their line from Yulee to Fernandina Beach to the First Coast Railroad. 

FEC once had tracks into Palatka also.
Those tracks no longer exist.

Miami Sub abandonment....I am referring to Auburndale north of the diamond.

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Coleman_to_Auburndale

I kind of see why it was abandoned if it was nearly parallel to the S Line and had no industries along it.  It would have been nice though if Amtrak bought it though.  I am shocked the Norfolk Southern did not try buying some of this right of way like the West Coast Sub back in the 80's because it would have given them a route Tampa.  It has always been strange how little of a presence the Norfolk Southern has in Florida outside of Jacksonville. 

Maybe no industry on it.  But routing is key for competing with trucks.

CSX has a much larger presence in Tampa than Miami. 

Makes sense for them to focus on and improve routes to Tampa and abandon ancillary routes. 

 

CSX has no competition in Tampa. They are the only RR there. 

The FEC route from Miami to JAX is much faster and more efficient than CSX. So FEC gets nearly all the RR traffic in and out of Miami and all the south florida ports. 

I alway thought it was weird the Norfolk Southern never tried to buy some of the old right of ways back in the 80's to be able to compete better for Central Florida and Tampa but then again I doubt CSX would have sold it to them because it would have given them competition. The FEC is very competitive and the SAL/SCL and later CSX never had the most direct route to Miami. It make sense that CSX would send all their intermodal traffic over the FEC and only have a small presence in South Florida.  Did the SCL and CSX ever have intermodal facility in Miami pre Tri Rail?

We assume CSX would have sold the lines to NS.  Its rumored and believable that the old SAL from Atl to Birmingham was abandoned quickly to keep BNSF out of Atlanta.  

 

I read somewhere that CSX may put back some of the SAL north of JAX to give an alternate route for intermodal to enter the city????

If Amtrak was in the position of buying track in Florida then maybe...

Are you talking about the old CSX-SAL route from JAX to Savannah? (abandoned)
That would not make more sense for intermodal to Atlanta.
JAX through Waycross is the better route.

Like it or not, Waycross is the central hub for all CSX trains going in/out of Florida. Yes, some CSX trains bypass Waycross by going through Nahunta. But that is not an alternate to Atlanta.

It's mostly unit coal trains that bypass Waycross and sometimes the juice train.

CSX trains going in/out of Florida include:
Coal trains- loaded south, empty north.
Juice train- loaded north, empty south.
Phosphate/aggregate trains- loaded north, empty south. 
Auto trains- loaded/empty each way depending on needs.
Intermodal- loaded/empty each way depending.
Ethanol, molten sulfur, oil, concrete, wood pulp/paper- can move each way depending on needs.

BTW, none of the above competes with trucking. There are not enough trucks to handle the bulk quantities of those products. Not even intermodal.
(except maybe paper)

I don't think its all of the SAL...just Callahan...over then back down.  This is all second hand info.  I am not sure of the details but its some route that will be replaced from the ACL over to the SAL...then the SAL down to JAX will be restored.  So ATL and Waycross would still be upstream from the changes.  

 

Intermodals fly down the Nahunta for sure.  

 

Do the Amtraks use the Nahunta sub?  Or through Waycross?

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Gross_Cutoff

I have heard those rumors to that they would rebuild the Gross Cutoff to give intermodal trains coming out of the port a better connection heading North.  Amtrak uses the Nahunta Sub. 

 With Waycross being so crowded now I wonder if CSX will ever reopen Baldwin yard?

On Google Maps it looks like work is occurring in Baldwin Yard.  I think Danny Harmon mentioned it might be re-opened on one of his Youtube videos.  But its just a small flat switching yard right?

 

Regarding the Gross Cutoff (thanks for jogging my memory) ... if it was added later by SAL...when did the SAL from Callahan to Baldwin get built...and how did it connect with the SAL main if the Gross Cutoff wasn't there yet?

 

I don't know who was the worst with abandonments...Hays Watkins...Prime Osborne...or Thomas Rice.

Baldwin yard was closed?
It never looked closed.
There have always been lots of freight cars there and there is a local that operates out of Baldwin switching cars in and around Starke.

I don't see CSX restoring Gross Cutoff. It's too far north to be effective for trains leaving Dames Point and Blount Island.
It might be more effective for trains in and out of Kings Bay but that's not a lot of traffic.

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Yulee_to_Callahan

The Florida Railroad pre SAL originally built a line from Fernandina Beach to Cedar Key. It was later absorbed into the SAL and they kept the section between Yulee and Callahan open until they built the Gross Cut Off and closed it in 1954.

If RR traffic through downtown JAX is congested, I sure has hell haven't seen it. And nobody is complaining about it.
Most of the RR traffic through JAX comes straight off the FEC, across the St Johns River, and onto CSX or NS.
Yes, Jacksonville has some large port facilities but not as much traffic. Overall #5 in the state when it comes to intermodal traffic. Though there are a lot of automobiles that get loaded on/off ships at Blount Island.
The Port of Palm Beach is one of the smallest ports in the state in terms of acreage, but it's #3 in terms of intermodal traffic.

I guess the worry is with the Panama Canal Expansion but then again probably the Port of Miami will benefit from it.  It will interesting to see if rail traffic increases in Florida because of it.