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I am reading S. Kip Farrington's excellent treatise "The Santa Fe's Big Three" about the 5001/5011, 3460 and 3765/3776/2900 classes. It seems that the 3461 in particular had an excessive amount of defects upon delivery from Baldwin, including rods being out of tram, bearings running hot, staybolt leaks and seams requiring caulking, firebricks working loose and falling into the pan and blocking the burner, leaks from two errant 7/16" holes drilled in the mud ring, etc. All of this showing up in the first 500 miles of operation. I wonder if these were normal teething pains on new steam locomotives back then, or if Baldwin was having a bad couple of days when they were assembling this locomotive?

 

He also refers to a phenomenon called "gassing", which appears to have been caused by the fuel oil being heated to too high of a temperature. There is no more explanation than that. Apparently this was detrimental to the operation of the locomotive and resulted in carbon buildup inside the firebox and poor steaming. In searching for clues on the internet I also found references to a possibly related condition called "drumming". This also apparently causes harm to the firebox and can cause the firebrick to come loose and fall out of place.

 

I know there are a number of steam railroaders on this forum, including Hotwater, who has fired nearly every oil burner of note in his career. I wonder if any of you can shed further light on the topic of "gassing" as well as any first hand experience dealing with it.

 

Thank you in advance.

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I also have the Santa Fe big three, and you are right about the 3461 defects on delivery.  It took a whilte to get the 3460 class sorted out.

 

 Apparently this was common then in many industries in '37 - '38.  In Maury Klein's recent (and very good!) book A Call to Arms, about the industrial build up leading to WWII, he talks about very quiet programs the Roosevelt administration started as early as 1935 to bulk up the amount of skilled workers in critical industries.  Railroads of course were one.  Baldwin and Alco, etc., participated in this program, which was much to their benefit of course, training extra apprecntices etc.  Apparently quality took a bit hit in many industries during this period as the new guys learned by doing and often messing up.

 

the good thing was, it was all sorted out by '41 . . . 

"Drumming" occurs in our engine when the atomizer is basically too high for the amount of fuel being burned. It's just what it sounds like--a series of thumps or pounds heard in the firebox. These indicate the fuel is not burning in a steady stream, but igniting intermittently as small explosions. Turning down the atomizer usually solves the problem for me.

 

I'm not sure what damage it does to our firebrick, or how much louder and stronger the drumming would be in a larger firebox.

Last edited by smd4
Originally Posted by smd4:

"Drumming" occurs in our engine when the atomizer is basically too high for the amount of fuel being burned. It's just what it sounds like--a series of thumps or pounds heard in the firebox. These indicate the fuel is not burning in a steady stream, but igniting intermittently as small explosions. Turning down the atomizer usually solves the problem for me.

 

I've been able to make the firebox "drum" on the 4449, 844, and 3985 by forcing the fire, with heavy blower and fairly high atomizer. This has generally been done to raise boiler pressure during setting of the safety valves, or at big display events when all the locomotives make lots of smoke & blow the whistles. The "drumming" seems to come from not enough air for combustion, i.e. restricted air intake.

 

I'm not sure what damage it does to our firebrick, or how much louder and stronger the drumming would be in a larger firebox.

 

That "drumming" has never caused us any problems, except of course lifting the safeties.

 

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

I also have the Santa Fe big three, and you are right about the 3461 defects on delivery.  It took a whilte to get the 3460 class sorted out.

 

 Apparently this was common then in many industries in '37 - '38.  In Maury Klein's recent (and very good!) book A Call to Arms, about the industrial build up leading to WWII, he talks about very quiet programs the Roosevelt administration started as early as 1935 to bulk up the amount of skilled workers in critical industries.  Railroads of course were one.  Baldwin and Alco, etc., participated in this program, which was much to their benefit of course, training extra apprecntices etc.  Apparently quality took a bit hit in many industries during this period as the new guys learned by doing and often messing up.

 

the good thing was, it was all sorted out by '41 . . . 

Maury Klein?  As in ex-K Line?

Baldwin must have had a lot of "bad days". They never built what I would term a "successful" Hudson. The Hudsons they built for New Haven and CSX also had out of tram and counterbalance problems. And the ACL 4-8-4's had counterbalance problems, and their WM 4-6-6-4's were not deemed successful. One report for PRR T1 #6110 or 6111 reported vibration so bad that the gauges could not be read. The C&O Hudsons based solely on their specifications appeared to be a promising design. And I believe that the PRR T1 was a promising design.

While Baldwin and more likely Baldwin customers were wrestling with their new locomotive problems, NYC ran high speed slip tests using a new Alco J-3A Hudson. The highest slip speed on greased rail reached a driving wheel revolution slip speed of 164 mph. The drivers lifted off the rail a fraction of an inch, with no harm done to engine or rails.

Kudos to Hot Water for his unsurpassed oil firing experience with some of the best steam designs in the country!

Originally Posted by Hudson5432:
 The highest slip speed on greased rail reached a driving wheel revolution slip speed of 164 mph. The drivers lifted off the rail a fraction of an inch, with no harm done to engine or rails.

 

I find this extremely difficult to believe. With the axle loads of those modern engines and the tremendous whirling mass and piston thrusts, any amount the drivers "lifted off the rail" is bound to cause some damage to the rail and roadbed, not to mention the shock to the running gear.

The basis for this information is an article that was written by one of the test engineers who was responsible for the speedometer/wheel revolution counter. (The standard speedo wheel skidded at high slip speeds.) The title of the article was, from my memory, "A Marvelous Machine for any Age". The J-3A had extremely light main and side rods and low counterbalance and overbalance. As a percentage of locomotive weight, the J-3 percentage was the lowest of any "modern" steam locomotive. The writer reiterated that except for some minor scuff marks on the rail, there was no damage to the engine or the rail head.

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