General Question About Retail Price Checking

There is more to the buying experience than just price,

@WALMART TOM posted:

There is more to the buying experience than just price,

Exactly. 

@WALMART TOM posted:

There is more to the buying experience than just price,

Like what?

Is your comment exclusive to hobbyists who have a local store, close by, that offer services, repairs or other benefits?

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

"I'd be happy to share what I learned, but don't want to rub anyone the wrong way. "

I think publishing the actual numbers by dealer would rub some the wrong way.  But publishing your methods and general results, without naming names (dealers) would not offend anyone. 

Okay, I'm going to drop this one because even just from the few people who responded (thank you!) it feels like there's no way to present the data without having someone take it wrong. I try to be very data driven with my financial decisions, and without a lot of work that's pretty hard to do in this hobby. Yes, there's more to the buying experience than money, and there are definitely some places that have great prices with a terrible customer experience. Hopefully, everyone out there can navigate through the seemingly random discount levels from retailer to retailer, because until I started digging, I didn't realize there wasn't just a "standard" discount.

Thank you all for the feedback! Happy Vol2 catalog season!

There's a dealer well known for the lowest pre-order prices who also delivers great service, including returns and communication.  So it's not always one thing or another.  A local dealer with reasonable prices is always best, but most folks don't have that option, and most are ordering from quite a distance.  This catalog, the usual price leader is getting competition on pricing from at least one other dealer who also has a good reputation for quality service. Like most things in retail, you have to do some digging to get the best pricing with good service. 

Some dealers require a deposit on preorders, others don't.  Some dealers charge sales tax on out-of-state purchases, others leave it up to the buyer to handle that when they file their state income taxes.  Some sell below MAP (see the price after you put it in the cart).  Some dealers offer repairs, some don't.  Some dealers are friendlier to deal with than others - this is often personal preference.  Some dealers provide a well-stocked brick-and-mortar store for local customers.  Some of these things are easily found via a little research, while others require talking with other hobbyists (this is where it's helpful to join a train club).  Most of us have favorite dealers, along with some that we dislike for various reasons, but few of us want to get our post deleted for dumping on a forum sponsor.  I'll bet that you can find some flaming comments on Facebook.

I wonder where the OP came up with a possible $1200 difference between vendors.  Even on a top-of-the-line locomotive with MSRP of $2500, I've never seen a price difference of more than about $300 or so.

Great examples. I had “local” dealer who offered a great price if I prepaid, pre ordered, and picked it up in store.  But they wouldn’t offer refund if Lionel BTO color didn’t match catalog or matching previous offerings. That was a deal breaker for me.

@Mallard4468 posted:

but few of us want to get our post deleted for dumping on a forum sponsor.  I'll bet that you can find some flaming comments on Facebook.

This is the lesson I'm learning this morning, and that definitely wasn't my intent which is why I asked first before sharing anything I found. I want to be a good citizen hobbyist here, and I appreciate all the responses. 🫶

@VADarthDad posted:

But they wouldn’t offer refund if Lionel BTO color didn’t match catalog or matching previous offerings. That was a deal breaker for me.

100% agree - that would be a deal killer for me as well.

As to the original question, I seem to remember a spreadsheet comparing prices across dealers being posted a catalog or two ago. It believe it stayed up (and probably still is if you do a search). I’m not sure how anyone could get upset about posting aggregated publicly-available data.

EDIT: Here is a link to the earlier thread with a price comparison spreadsheet. It was from the last catalog and is still up.

https://ogrforum.com/...3#182889129443316273

@J.Dooley posted:

This is the lesson I'm learning this morning, and that definitely wasn't my intent which is why I asked first before sharing anything I found. I want to be a good citizen hobbyist here, and I appreciate all the responses. 🫶

As long as you aren't disparaging dealers, I don't see what would be wrong with presenting the data that you've collected—it's publicly available after all—and it would be a service to hobbyists here.

In my own anecdotal experience, Charles Ro and Trainworld offer among the most competitive prices and the former may have the lowest shipping fees. I like Public Delivery Track's fair pricing, but also that they specialize in O scale and frequently do interesting special runs. Trainz has fair, competitive pricing on the used market and stands by their products.

@Matt_GNo27 posted:

As long as you aren't disparaging dealers, I don't see what would be wrong with presenting the data that you've collected—it's publicly available after all—and it would be a service to hobbyists here.

In my own anecdotal experience, Charles Ro and Trainworld offer among the most competitive prices and the former may have the lowest shipping fees. I like Public Delivery Track's fair pricing, but also that they specialize in O scale and frequently do interesting special runs. Trainz has fair, competitive pricing on the used market and stands by their products.

FWIW, Charles Ro came out the cheapest, and that's before the borderline unbelievable shipping deals they give customers. No gimmicks, no special customer or volume discounts, just "here's the price, we help with shipping" and I appreciate that A LOT. Plus, the first ever Lionel set I bought in 1996 was from there, so it makes me happy they are still thriving.

First I've heard of Public Delivery Track, I'll look it up. I was definitely hoping to find more places I hadn't used before. Like I said at the beginning, I usually spread the pre-orders around to try and help, but the e-mail from Mr. Muffin made me wonder what it would look like to get an entire huge pre-order from one dealer.

So many variables in play.  Does a particular dealer get a bigger wholesale discount because he buys 2 and 3 times the quantities of other dealers?  Does he have a special shipping set up, I am amazed at what things can ship for via FedEx and UPS with companies that have accounts, what costs them $10 to ship, cost me $35 to ship.  What kind of store do the rent/own?  My hobby shop in town, the proprietor has owned his store free and clear for decades, and that gets reflected in how much he needs to charge.  Plus, he gives a 10% discount for cash, that can be significant.  If I buy new, I order and  buy from him, and we are lucky to have a hobby shop like his in this comparatively small community.

Some dealers will not give you a full refund, only store credit, even if you return the item the following day whether defective or not. Sooo...make sure you factor in return policy into your purchase calculations.

To me it's no different than researching Amazon, eBay or any other online vendor for the best price on anything I'm contemplating to purchase.  When push comes to shove, it's still my money.

@J.Dooley posted:

First I've heard of Public Delivery Track, I'll look it up. I was definitely hoping to find more places I hadn't used before.

Public Delivery Track is a forum sponsor and its owner, @Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track, is a forum member. Beth and PDT is focused on selling O scale rolling stock, including locomotives, only. (That said she is currently clearing out RailKing stock leftover from before focusing solely on scale items only.) She frequently does custom runs from MTH and Atlas O, soliciting suggestions from customers on this forum. These will often include smaller roads.

She does ask for deposits for special orders, but they are minimal, $20 for locomotives and $5 for everything else.

@Matt_GNo27 posted:

Public Delivery Track is a forum sponsor and its owner, @Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track, is a forum member. Beth and PDT is focused on selling O scale rolling stock, including locomotives, only. (That said she is currently clearing out RailKing stock leftover from before focusing solely on scale items only.) She frequently does custom runs from MTH and Atlas O, soliciting suggestions from customers on this forum. These will often include smaller roads.

She does ask for deposits for special orders, but they are minimal, $20 for locomotives and $5 for everything else.

Thank you for the information! Lots of excellent stuff to search through.

Matt...Thanks for the mention.     Our pricing is based on market value, while still trying to be competitive with the big guys,  The big guys sell 10 times as much as we do, which allows the to still turn a good profit, with less margin on each sale.   

PDT is a small (supposedly part time) home biz.  The objective has always been to have nice, full O scale items available for folks.  We dont carry everything...just items that we think are reasonably priced and good models.  Items, from any manufacturer, that we feel have gotten too expensive, considering their quality and all..we just dont actively carry.  We also tend to stay away from the large steam engines, as their cost and small discount far outweighs their liability for a small business.

Our long suits are special runs, having a large amount of full O scale sized items available, and having a good knowledge of real railroads.   

Also, FWIW, MTH charges shipping to all dealers, and west coast shipping is a lot more than east coast shipping, or picking up things in person if u are getting a large load.   We pay more for MTH engines and and rolling stock than most MTH dealers.   There's a reason their are not many MTH dealers west of the rockies.    Ive talked to them about this many times, but to no avail.   

Thx

beth

public delivery track

'"slightly" higher west of the Rockies" showed up in the old general sales catalogs.  May impact the availability of road names west of Rockies. I have wondered whether the western market was only a small percentage of the eastern, and if that impacted the availability of roadnames, more than l thought. Costing more locally, with shipping to seller covered,  has to be considered by the buyer vs. apparent cheaper prices in east PLUS shipping and SERVICE.   Manufacturers know what that % is, and it has long looked look like the western market is discounted. But... Lionel and Marx ATSF diesels, two versions of Marx WP cab units, Flyer western road diesels, imply a western market in their era.??

I'm never offended by pricing comparisons. Maybe others have unlimited hobby funds, and great for them, but I do not. Most of my local shops have closed except for two. One is overpriced and the other shop does not carry much O Gauge.

So price is important, and I am happy to admit I am heavily invested in many of our forum sponsors.

I would love to support the brick and mortar hobby shops. However, most stores close to me just can't seem to compete with online discount prices.  And it's not even close. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more to support my local hobby shop but unfortunately the difference is way too much. I recently compared pricing to pre-order items from the new Lionel catalog and the best discount my hobby shop offered was $70 on a $1700 MSRP engine

I totally understand what the hobby shop doesnt discount a lot.   

In the real world (even in HO trains, not to mention everything else) a 1700$ retail item should cost the dealer may 1000 $, maybe 1200.   In the O gauge world, the dealer cost is probably about 1400$.

So if u sell it for 1600, then 4% for a credit card, (64 $ ) , thats 1530 net...a whopping $136 profit on a $1700. dollar sale.    This is why I dont deal in the heavy metal.  No business person in their right mind would deal with such a low margin.    IDK why the "big boys" do it.  I guess they feel that if thet sell 30 engines,  well thats $4000.    You can work on low margins if you do high volume.

In the real world, the margin should be 40 to 60 %.

If you really want to support you local hobby store, then pay them what they need to make,  to make the sale worthwhile.  

Im just sayin...

The originator of this thread indicated he was going to not pursue this topic.  Frankly, what is being discussed here is not new so not much to learn other than folks lamenting about the prices of product.  We have enough of those kinds of threads.  Beth says it best in her post above.  Topic closed.