Genisis of the Lionel 520 Boxcab

I am a fan of the Postwar Lionel 520.
If anybody decides to look for one, be aware that the body is mounted by two lugs case into one end of the shell, and a single screw at the other end. Most of the 520's I've seen over the years have the lugs broken off.
The body will stay in place without them, so long as one is careful to pick the engine up by its metal frame.

The plastic pantograph is usually missing or broken, but reproductions are out there.

Allan Miller should be checking in here soon. He is also a big fan of the 520.

I hope this photo isn't too painful for 520 fans, but I found this shell at York a few years back. It looks like three of the 520s ran into someone's band saw and emerged as this big electric boxcab. I added some details and powered it with a Lionel diesel mechanism.

Jim

Jim...I love that thing!!!  It would look even better with a couple of post war type pantographs replacements...WOW!!  Thanks for the pic...

Alan

Thanks, Alan. 

I did find some better pantographs a while back. Installing them is on my long list of things to do. 

Jim

Love it! 

Here's a boxcab I built back in the 90's:

Conrail boxcar with a Marx motor and a lot of styrene.

The prototype engines were still running up through the end of last year in Chile. Electric engines have a tendency to have a long life with proper maintenance. An on line article I was reading on it described that the railroad was narrow gauge and electric running a copper mining operation. There were new electric replacement engines bought in the last fee years but the older engines were still in use up to abandonment of the line due to roadbed wash outs and cost to rebuild. Neat to see that these are still around.

It would be neat to see the real 520 repatriated. I'm not going to hold my breath but I do really like these as well.

Here are a few more contemporary images of these engines I found online. They have been a bit modified since the builder shots. The portholes have been altered and there are big sand boxes on the porches.

K-Line made some nice ones with can motors.

Here's one in action.  I found this on Youtube.

https://youtu.be/lT9XZDH5qzE

Silver Lake posted:

The prototype engines were still running up through the end of last year in Chile. Electric engines have a tendency to have a long life with proper maintenance. An on line article I was reading on it described that the railroad was narrow gauge and electric running a copper mining operation. There were new electric replacement engines bought in the last fee years but the older engines were still in use up to abandonment of the line due to roadbed wash outs and cost to rebuild. Neat to see that these are still around.

It would be neat to see the real 520 repatriated. I'm not going to hold my breath but I do really like these as well.

Here are a few more contemporary images of these engines I found online. They have been a bit modified since the builder shots. The portholes have been altered and there are big sand boxes on the porches.

Thanks for the fotos. I found some pix of similar engines on a Spanish language web site dedicated to this railroad and features a lot of information about it. It is the Ferrocarril Tocopilla al Toco and it washed out about a year ago. I speak Spanish so that is nice.  I am fairly sure that GE made the locomotives you picture but I do not believe they were the actual prototype. Notice square windows on the side, not portholes. 

 I have found two photos of what I believe is the actual prototype for the 520, portholes and all. The cutline on one of those pix lists it owner as another mining company in Chile. It came out of a 1947 book Kalmbach reprinted in the 70s. Unfortunately I can't tease out as much detail on this second railroad as I can on the one you picture.  The reason I am making a big deal out of this is that I am trying to write a piece for the TCA online newsletter using the demise of the real prototype as the peg. I will post the pix of what I believe to be the actual prototype below

Thanks for the help

Jim was the shell already painted?  It looks as if the roof was modified differently than the sides.

Penny, that's a nice job.  I always wanted to make a boxcab out of a Kline S2 using the security car body which is just like the 520 shell.  One was too short, two were too long but I never thought of starting out with a boxcar.

There is perhaps no greater fan of the 520 than I, who long ago advocated/begged for Lionel or one of its competitors to release an updated version of that iconic (to me, at least) Lionel model. K-Line finally did, shortly before their demise, and it is/was a decent model despite some tracking problems. RMT supposedly had a 520 model in the works, too, that would be faithful to the prototype in terms of livery and sport some added features, but that firm also went belly-up. As some here may recall, I was the founder of the "Friends of the 520" society, and I still proudly hold the title of de-facto president of that group.

Looks like the ball is probably in MTH's court now! But I'm not holing out much hope. 

ADDED THOUGHT:  There IS, perhaps, one more viable possibility! Maybe Menards would consider doing a 520 as the first piece of motive power for their ever-expanding line of rolling stock. With the right exposure/promotion, and assuming it was built right, it would likely sell quite well.

Could be a very reasonable starting point.  Are you listening Mr. Menard's Guy? 

coach joe posted:

Jim was the shell already painted?  It looks as if the roof was modified differently than the sides.

Joe,

Some detail was added to the roof by the original owner and also by myself. Air tanks were added/lengthened and some walkways added.

I have to get around to taking some close-ups to show the details better. I was going to wait until I replaced those stamped pre-war pantographs with something better to improve the appearance of the roofline.

Jim

I have recently become of Menards and like what their products. I have no idea how to approach them. Any thoughts?

John

All

This is a long post but one I hope you 520 guys will help with. I am fairly new to this forum as a poster so I am hopeful all of you who have responded to my first post receive this. If that is not true maybe someone can help.

First, it is obvious there is a big 520 fan club and that is nice. One post suggested to get Menards interested, good idea I do not know how. (more on this below)

The reason I got this going was that I offered to author an article for Carol Redman McGinnis at e*Train, her online magazine. She is a past TCA pres. and you old-timers will recognize the Redman part, he father and one of the founders of TCA.

My pitch to her was to do a requiem for the actual Chilean box cabs. I learned they had been retired because the line was washed out last year. A few of you were also aware of that. I wanted to stimulate interest in the Lionel 520 by linking it back to the real prototype, which served for nearly 100 years. 

Only one problem, I am convinced now that the line that was washed out in Chile is not the same one using the actual prototype. Their locos are close, and I think manufactured by GE, but not the prototype.

I recovered a photo of what obviously is the real actual prototype, even down to the 520 number, on the internet. (attached here) It had a reference to ANOTHER Chilean mining operation. The one that washed out hauled nitrates. The one with the prototype hauled copper from perhaps the largest copper mine in the world. That photo cited a 1941 book Cyclopedia of Locomotives, which Kalmbach reprinted in the 70s. The TCA museum in Strasburg has a copy and the librarian looked it up. The cite check out but unfortunately there was no other information.

So, thinking like the retired journalist I am, what can I say: The prototype ran in a Chilean copper mine and similar to, but not the exact box cabs also made by GE ran on a Chilean line hauling nitrates until 2015. There may be 2 example of those remaining. But that is it.

So I am wondering where to go with the article. One idea is to look into how Lionel and other manufacturers research their models. I am also a member of the Western Maryland Railway Historical Society and I know MTH sends designers up to Union Bridge from time to time to do research in their extensive photo archive.

I doubt that at this point it would be possible to actually find out how Lionel went about developing the 520 back in 1956, but it might be possible for someone with Lionel to comment about their research process and there might be someone around who could comment on how that worked 60 years ago.

I think some of you have the knowledge to help out with this last part. Does anyone have Lionel contacts who might help, or just know about the product development process?????????

Maybe a way to get Menards interest would be to ask them how they do it and mention the 520. Put a bug in their ear.

Thanks

John

Everybody needs at least one box cab.  

I have the MTH PS/2 model.

Here's the K-Line that was mentioned.  I had an eye to converting this to command, just never got around to it.

Gunrunner,

The MTH version is frankly nicer than the original 520 (I think, but very subjective)

The bottom is Lionel tooling used under K-Line name after they acquired them. I also have a K-line in PRR livery like the second picture. Someone mentioned RMT planned to make one, which is true. Walter got a hold of a bunch of K-line tooling when Lionel stopped the line. He never did. I wonder where the tooling is today?

BTW everyone should have three, an original 520, a K-line, and a MTH :-)

John

Does anyone have a picture of how the 520 set components were packaged in the two tier basket weave box? The only image I have has the components removed. I know the engine and cars had no boxes but did have cardboard dividers.....additionally, does anyone have a list of all set components beyond the engine and cars, like what documents came with the set as well as accessories like clip-on connector, wire, etc? Thanks.

I had an original Lionel 520 at one time, but that one was sold along with the Lionel 44-Ton locomotives that were sized more like 120-Ton locomotives.

Leading statement, there were no nice 520's ruined in this project.

The lowly 520, while mechanically  sound but athsteicallly  marginal has great potential.

The basis came from an old magazine article (if permitted, I can name) which I changed some.  Two Atlas WDT Plymouth switchers and a stretched 520 body.  Leftover details, some Precision Scale headlights and a postwar Lionel pantograph.

Engine remains 2 rail as I can't find any space to put any third rail pickups.  If anyone has ever three railed the Atlas Plymouth please post details.

Three more 520 projects left including a more realistic Chilean prototype.

Yes I like critters.

Gray Lackey

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Everybody needs at least one box cab.   ...snip...

I agree, but I think that bigger is better.

Both are Ed Alexander/ Baldwin Model Locomotive Works New Haven EP-3s.

There's a small electric boxcab locomotive at the Connecticut Trolley Museum in East Windsor. It was built in 1913 but stayed in service with CN up in Montreal into the 1990s!

Here's a link to some historical information with pictures from the 80s, 90s and early 00s: http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...cture.aspx?id=122928

Here are some pictures that I took of the locomotive last year (2021). I guess the museum repainted it sometime around 2010 but the past ten years on display outside have been unkind to it. If I visit this museum again this year I will have to bring a tape measure so I can get some dimensions and 3D print a model of it!

One of my first custom creations!

@JEN64 posted:

Gunrunner,

The MTH version is frankly nicer than the original 520 (I think, but very subjective)

The bottom is Lionel tooling used under K-Line name after they acquired them. I also have a K-line in PRR livery like the second picture. Someone mentioned RMT planned to make one, which is true. Walter got a hold of a bunch of K-line tooling when Lionel stopped the line. He never did. I wonder where the tooling is today?

BTW everyone should have three, an original 520, a K-line, and a MTH :-)

John

Well I hate to break it to you but I dont have any. I would have like to get the AEGIR #9265 in the true demo scheme. Maybe Atlas O? But I am interested in building  custom pairs EMD boxcab twins #462-463? As well as Emc 50 &51?

"Here are some pictures that I took of the locomotive last year (2021). I guess the museum repainted it sometime around 2010 but the past ten years on display outside have been unkind to it. If I visit this museum again this year I will have to bring a tape measure so I can get some dimensions and 3D print a model of it!"

@Trainguy Ken

Look at the Model Railroader Cyclopedia, volume 2. It all about diesels. Page 24 has what you are looking for and some rudimentary dimensions.

The MTH model is a model of the Alco-GE-Ingersoll Rand pioneer boxcar, of which the Erie had at least two, one of them assigned to the Harlem Transfer Co., a small subsidiary in the Bronx. They lasted into the Erie Lackawanna years.

This is one of my two #520 boxcabs. This one has been in my possession since 1988, when I was 15. My Dad brought it home for me. Where did he get it? Well, that's where it gets interesting. He found it in the trash! He worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for Orange County, Florida, at the county landfill. He had been sent out to repair a trash compactor (similar to a steam roller, but with spiked rollers for rolling over trash) that had stalled. When he walked around the front of the machine, he saw a cardboard box with a Lionel boxcar sticking out. I was always into trains, so he decided to see what else was in the box. Turns out it was a bunch of old Lionel trains, including the 520! Had the compactor rolled another 10 feet, I wouldn't be typing this right now. Anyway, he brought them home for me to mess with, and see if I could get them running. I had never messed with Lionel trains (I was an N scale guy afterall), but decided to see what I could do. There was no internet at the time, so it wasn'teasy, but I got them all cleaned up, and got the engine running. Fast forward to my adult years, and I still had all of those O scale trains in a box. I decided to do some more work to the 520, and this is what I ended up with. I drilled out the headlights housings on both ends so I could add LED lighting. and added a second pantograph (which required cutting a square hole in the roof, just like the original pantograph), and sprayed the roof flat black. I also added a bell, horns, and cab figures. The engineers window post was broken from the day I got the engine, so I placed the engineer sothat his arm is out of the window. I also cleaned up any surface rust on the frame and then painted it all black. While I was at it, I added a pilot truck where there wasn't one from Lionel, so that the loco now has the correct number of axles, when compared to the real thing, giving it a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. Last thing was adding window "glass", brass GE builder's plates, and painting the corner railings white. It still runs great, and is a good indication of what
Lionel could have done, with a little more effort (except for the LED lihting, of course!

Very nicely done, Jonathan!

Thank you Allan Miller!