GG1 Relics in New York

I think these are PRR #s 4909 and 4917. I had no idea that trees had grown up alongside them since this was taken:

I am no fan of the GG1's, but being a fan of RR's and History, that is a sad site.  Does anyone know the story with these?  How they got there?  Is this an abandoned spur or siding?  Private or RR property? 

The line looks definitely abandoned.  The house is the back of Lee's photo is still there with a Caboose set next to it.  There are a couple pullmans and boxcars rotting away behind the GG1s there too.

Where exactly is that?

Thanks

Jim

From what I remember, which isn't much lately, these engines were donated to the "Leatherstocking Group" in Cooperstown, NY in the early 80s. They were to be cosmetically restored by that group. I don't know what happen to them. They're probably not scrapped because the of "PCB" cancer causing agents GG1s had in their traction motors which has to be properly removed, if I remember correctly.  

Oneonta NY

PAUL ROMANO posted:

From what I remember, which isn't much lately, these engines were donated to the "Leatherstocking Group" in Cooperstown, NY in the early 80s. They were to be cosmetically restored by that group. I don't know what happen to them. They're probably not scrapped because the of "PCB" cancer causing agents GG1s had in their traction motors which has to be properly removed, if I remember correctly.  

It's not the traction motors, it's the transformers in the locomotives.  All transformers were supposed to be removed and the bodies flushed out before any GG1 was disposed of.

Rusty

What a shame. Is there any hope for these two locomotives? Can anything be done to save them?

In November of 2014 the gg1s at Cooperstown junction were moved away from the Delaware and Hudson main due to the ns takeover of the line from cp. here are some pictures of the first day of the move. 

This also marks the first time a train operated from Milford to Cooperstown jct on the Cooperstown branch In years.  

GG1s are, I think, oversaved, if such a thing is possible. Many of them exist today and several are rusting away at the hands of museums. The most famous of those is the one that crashed into the depot at DC on that famous runaway train. The B&O museum has it, rusting away on a spur nobody but commuters ever get to see...

All that said, others are held by small museums and well cared for, such as this one at United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey. I saw this one in September and it's wedged between other rolling stock and you'd never know it was there if you drove by where it's kept.

The only time you can get a glimpse of the equipment is when the leaves are off the trees driving by on RT. 287 in Boonton, NJ. It is recommended you be the passenger while trying to take a look at 65 mph. 

I had no idea GG1's were so heavily represented/preserved.  However, that red Power Wagon is fantastic.  I just saw that Tom Selleck's is going on the auction block.  I love those old power wagons.

Even Old Rivets is not in good shape.

This site has lots of information about GG1's, including a list of where a bunch of them are located:
The GG1 Homepage

Thanks TMACK.....love those gg's.....glad so many are preserved...wish New Haven and NYC had saved some.....EP's and P-2's....all the best....joe

     I had visited those two GG-1's in May. My brother-in-law took me to see them since they are a few minutes from his house.

    His understanding is that they are available to a club or other group that would want to restore them. A club or group could even just restore the exteriors.

   Along with the GG-1's at that site are two box cars plus a very old wood sided box car. In addition there is an RPO (?) and another passenger car, if memory serves me.

   I believe the numbers were 4917 and 4934. (Lionel is going to release the sparking GG-1 later this year as 4935. Here is the actual 4934!)

John Knapp

There is a video on You Tube of the GG-1's being moved from Cooperstown Junction but I can't seem to find the link for it. It was quite interesting! 

TMACK

  I was in Cooperstown last week also.  What team were you with ?  My son is on the Colorado RV Mustangs.  We found an old rusting Delaware & Hudson Jordan spreader at that Milton train station. I'm still not home yet so I can't post pictures at this time.

Mike,

We were at Allstar Village.  You guys must have been at Dreams Park? We are the Simi Black Sox.  Some of us are talking about a U13 trip to Omaha next summer.

Ted

   The public grew to rely on them. ,They were an icon of high ability, and durability, and not all of the public was ready to let that go easily IMO. A "wild scheme" to re-electrify around here (Dearborn/Detroit) was thrown around in the news, and political arenas around the time of the GG-1's retirement. Grabbing some about to be mothballed GG-1's was at the core. It was felt by some, that many good years of service were left in them; enough to make it worthwhile to move them, and string overhead lines.(hey, cheaper & easier, but my middle class neighbor paid for having coaxial line strung for two miles, and boosters, to become our cities 1st cable TV customer back in the 70's )

I think he EPA shot them down on adopting the GG-1s down the best they could. 

  If you hear about the move to The Henry Ford in Dearborn happening, let us know PLEASE!

    Long distance? I'll likely never see one. But local? That's a chase I would/could do. The right time and route, it could be seen a few times, from a few places no doubt. I know where I can see "The Village" RR switching & access gate too

  I had a budgeted a long East coast trip; planned for over a year. To see the GG-1's in operation was #1 on my list, an "El" a distant #2. But they retired them quicker than I expected, so I missed them and canceled. And instead, I went to Florida to get caught in an ocean rip current, while in only 3ft of water. I almost drowned, and then swam back about a mile. At the end, tired and bobbing, almost ending up in the "washing machine" of waves beneath the South Daytona Pier Those teenage swimming parties, and races across the quarries paid off though (Deep under water, its dark, and confusing on which way is up. Follow the feeling of an air bubble to the surface . (I never panic ).

No fun; I still wanna see a GG-1 like I had planned  

Ahem, "A plug for the locals"...If you want to save one, why not visit The Henry Ford Museum or Greenfield Village, and speak upwhile there . You should like either place really. The HF is  basically "on" The Greenfield Village grounds. A village where literally, whole buildings of importance are kept, and they do have working steam at G.V.. The H.F. is about far more than cars. It's really about all types of industrial, and mechanical milestones; Airplanes to printing presses. They have some restored/maintained, but inactive trains inside already too. Oh yea, the H.F. is pretty big alone, plus "The Village", when really active, can eat multiple days up   IMO, a day for each/ a couple of days for both, is rushing it a touch at times, but always worth it. (extra venues, clubs, charity drives, & extra daily activities, and running of vintage equipment will vary. Picky? Use a plan)    It's almost between the airport, and the Dearborn Station. Southwest of Detroit, right off a highway, lodging from heritage, to high rise, to big name, rural, or even ghetto motels, all within a few miles. Right against the south side of what I think is that same Dearborn Station line about a mile down....that I also think was once part of those DT&I lines once electrified by Henry Ford.

 In the future, if anyone were to electrify a "park track" for running "retired" electric locomotives, my money would be on the HF/GV. A good home for any train anyhow.

p51 posted:

GG1s are, I think, oversaved, if such a thing is possible. Many of them exist today and several are rusting away at the hands of museums. The most famous of those is the one that crashed into the depot at DC on that famous runaway train. The B&O museum has it, rusting away on a spur nobody but commuters ever get to see...

All that said, others are held by small museums and well cared for, such as this one at United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey. I saw this one in September and it's wedged between other rolling stock and you'd never know it was there if you drove by where it's kept.

 

Oversaved is probably an accurate description.  The locomotives literally ran from the thirties well into the "postmodern" railroad era.

Not a bad run for such a complex piece of machinery.  Heavy cast steel parts and big copper-laden electrical gear in a locomotive designed and build by the world's foremost manufacturers.

A testament to "overbuilding" if there's ever been one.

TMack posted:

Mike,

We were at Allstar Village.  You guys must have been at Dreams Park? We are the Simi Black Sox.  Some of us are talking about a U13 trip to Omaha next summer.

Ted

We were in Dreams Park.  We also plan to go to Omaha next year.  A great place for train buffs. Unlike Denver they know how to restore a historic station.

RaritanRiverRailroadFan4 posted:

What a shame. Is there any hope for these two locomotives? Can anything be done to save them?

All it takes is lots of money and a determined organization to achieve a proper restoration.

It's good to hear that there are a number of them already preserved and maintained.

      I believe the owners of these two GG-1's are looking for a group or club to take one or both for preservation purposes. Perhaps a group could just restore the exterior and leave the GG-1 in a park or building somewhere. It would not have to be a full restoration of the engine, etc.

     My brother-in-law, who lives nearby said he believes he knows the owners.

John Knapp

Are any of them in a condition where they'd be operable if provided the proper voltage?

AGHRMatt posted:

Are any of them in a condition where they'd be operable if provided the proper voltage?

No GG1 is in operable condition.  The transformers have been removed.

Rusty

It would be great to see one operating again.  Isn't there one at the IRM?

N&W Class J posted:

It would be great to see one operating again.

Agree, but there is no chance since all the transformers were filled with PCB cooling oil, and thus have been removed & disposed of do to the PCBs. Plus, GG1s operated off at least 12,500 volt AC overhead.

 Isn't there one at the IRM?

Yes, it is in one of the buildings.

Creating an operational gg1 would require a new transformer, as the old ones were pcb laden and operated at a different phase than what is used in modern ac powered railroads. Unlike some dc powered electrics (like the little joe) the gg1 would not be able to operate at a trolley museum, since those use dc power.  

GG1 4890 resides in the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, WI. (Next to 4017 UP Big Boy)

MIKATT1 posted:

There is a video on You Tube of the GG-1's being moved from Cooperstown Junction but I can't seem to find the link for it. It was quite interesting! 

Are these the beasts in question? 

2 comments about the above video:

1) To me, that diesel horn sounded like a steam whistle.

2) I thought the GG1 was grunting and groaning as though it was in pain.

Dan Weinhold

   About halfway down this page, under "other notable green colors" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_green. The comment I made about the B-green paint having copper in it, is at the end of the Brunswick green section, specifically citing the PRR as using it (copper version). But Wikipediea wasn't where I remember seeing the statement the first time. I think that was on a graphic arts site & the topic was odd ink & paint pigments.

...No, I haven't followed up on either source yet  

    On my own "first new GG" purchase, the "fuel" label above the filler to the steam heater's fuel tank had me stumped for a bit too, not thinking about passenger trains much yet, I wondered if it had a generator for moving "just itself" a short distance . Tuscan; but it quickly grew on me .

 "No such thing" Lee. Like vintage Jeeps, there's no such thing as "too many" GG-1's  .

 Old Rivets is what we called the "2pt black/ 1pt green" Lionel.

If you ever wanted to "save" a GG-1, why not the first one? Its even a bit unique.

Indoors would be real nice.

sleepmac posted:

2 comments about the above video:

1) To me, that diesel horn sounded like a steam whistle.

Dan Weinhold

That's a Hancock air whistle. 

Bob

CNJ 3676 posted:

sleepmac posted:

2 comments about the above video:

1) To me, that diesel horn sounded like a steam whistle.

Dan Weinhold

That's a Hancock air whistle. 

Bob

 I keep wanting to hear it again. It sounds almost like a tired post war whistle when turning low RPM, and the lower pitch is a little more prominent.

If I may take a moment and show my lack of knowledge. It has been asked and answered why a GG1 couldn't be restored to original condition and operated. Is it even feasible to retro fit one with diesel engines and operate it that way?. Just wondering,

It's been a while but as I recall the one Greenfield Village bought has a cracked frame and the railroads deem it unsafe to transport to Michigan. Disappointing as it was to be cosmetically restored and placed inside their museum. I was surprised the first time I saw Rivets sitting outside the Pa RR museum just rusting away.

Clarence Siman posted:

If I may take a moment and show my lack of knowledge. It has been asked and answered why a GG1 couldn't be restored to original condition and operated. Is it even feasible to retro fit one with diesel engines and operate it that way?. Just wondering,

Then it wouldn't be a GG1.

It could be possible some group could fit contemporary electrical gear into a GG1, but for all its size the GG1 is pretty cramped on the inside. 

And it would take considerable financing.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty, now I know.