Update 12/31/13:) GGD 2ND Run of the Lightweight Passenger cars

Any clarification as to what constitutes the "2nd run of light weight passenger cars" that will actually be in the November container?

I just received a shipment note from the Public Deliver Track that one of the separate-sale NP coaches I ordered is enroute to me this week, but I got the impression the "completer" set might not be available until 2014.

I also ordered one separate-sale GN coach along with the GN completer set, but haven't gotten a definitive word on those yet.

No rush to receive them... just curious.

David

Think he is referring to these - passenger trains aluminum

http://www.goldengatedepot.com/reservation.html

The coaches were done as the 5 most popular road names, and then everything else in a 2nd run. So the first 5 roadnames (I think, NP, C&O, NYC, UP and SP) shipped, the rest are coming in november.

My note from Scott back in the spring says;

Dear Bill,

CN did not make the May Run. So they will happen later this year.

C&O, NYC, SP, UP and NP made the May Run.

You didn't miss anything, this is a new announcement. You can see the reservation info on the web site.

The cars are based on the B&O Columbian Pullman cars. They may be fantasy but provide the cars to FINISH one's consist.

Scott Mann

 So maybe 4 of the 5 first run cars might look like these.

Golden Gate Depot NP aluminum smooth side coach, 3 rail

Golden Gate Depot SP aluminum smooth side coach, 3 rail

Golden Gate Depot UP aluminum smooth side coach, 3 rail

          NYC 

So I think what that says is that the 2nd run will consist of:

CN

CP

GN

N&W

PULLMAN TTG

I think I saw scott say the 2nd shippment is planned to leave about Oct 20 and arrive mid Nov in CA. So I would guess that around 1st of Decemebr to those of us more towards the east.

Thanks everyone for providing more information.  I guess we'll have to wait and see what actually arrives yet in the November container.  Maybe the 4-car "completer set" for NP will be part of that shipment, and the GN cars will come in 2014.

I pre-ordered a separate sale NP car along with the 4-car NP completer set at the same time earlier this year, but only the separate-sale NP car is being shipped now.  I should have it in the next day or two  (I believe that's the car described in the link in the above post.)  And I guess the completer set wasn't made at the same time.    Otherwise, that would have shipped also, and that's what has me a bit confused.

Either way, it sounds like the GN cars won't be coming in until 2014, since I didn't even receive the full NP set yet.

David

David,

Some clarification here;

what Scott refers to as the "finish set" is 4 cars - combine,diner,round end observation, and 18 roomette sleeper.

These cars have not gone in to production yet.

What arrived recently are the coaches as pictured in an above post. These same coaches in different road names (GN, CN,CP,etc) will be arriving later this year.

rheil, many thanks for that point of clarification.  I think the light-bulb just went on!!!

Yes... the "finish set" is what I'm still looking for, but it appears those will not be produced/delivered until 2014 to complete the passenger train(s).  Although I thought I read somewhere on the GGD website that the "finish set" consisted of the combine, diner, observation, and vista dome.    Is the roomette/sleeper replacing the vista dome?  Perhaps we can get clarification on that... and if so, I may order another "regular coach" from the current run(s).

This is the first time I'm ordering GGD passenger cars.  So I'm learning as I go here.   And here's how I see it now -- based on the two roadnames I've ordered, NP and GN:

• Sleepers for NP and GN have already been produced/delivered in late 2012 / early 2013.  (See the photo below)
• Coaches for the NP (and a few other roadnames) were just recently produced/delivered in late Summer 2013.  These are part of what is being called "Light Weight Coach Run #1".  (See the photo below)
• Coaches for the GN (and a few other roadnames) are due to arrive in October/November 2013.  And these are part of what is being called "Light Weight Coach Run #2".
• The 4-car "finish sets" for both the NP and GN (among other roadnames) have NOT been produced yet, and will most likely be produced delivered in 2014.

So we'll likely be well into 2014 before a "complete" passenger train in the two roadnames I've ordered (NP and GN) will be delivered by GGD.  Ultimately, I'm targeting a 7- or 8-car train in these roadnames.  Thus far, the cars I've received look terrific!!! 

David

David,

Your above assumptions are correct. The 4 car set that completes the B&O Columbian has the correct B&O dome for this train. The "finish set" for non B&O roads substituted a sleeper for the dome car since a number of the road names included in the finish set did not have domes. Obviously NP and GN did have domes, and that issue should be addressed in the future by GGD.

Don't forget that Amtrak is in the second run of coaches too   I have 8 coming my way. 

That seems reasonable for roadnames without a dome car.  However, I'm hoping that GGD produces the NP and GN finish sets WITH a dome car.  They've already offered a run of sleepers as 4-4-2 and 10-6 (prior to the regular coaches), so we don't need another sleeper as part of the finish set.  Would MUCH rather have the dome car. 

David

I see scott's update of 11/12/13 says "

• 1951 SF Super Chief and Light Weight Coaches Arrive Dec 7th. Container is on it's way.
  

Sounds like good news. Looks like we should have these cars in time for Christmas.

Thanks Scott for the update.

I saw in Scotts last update that the container with the Run #2 Light weight Aluminum cars docks Today.

• 1951 SF Super Chief and Light Weight Coaches Arrive Dec 7th. Container is on it's way and docks Nov 29.
  

I was told by my GGD dealer a few months back (about when the first run of lightweight coaches was delivered) to expect the "finish sets" for the NP and GN (and I assume most other roadnames) in 2014.  No more details than that.  If anyone else has any further info, please chime in.

Also... as you'll note in an earlier reference in this thread... There seems to be a bit of confusion as to the exact configuration of the finish sets with respect to a dome car vs. sleeper.  Perhaps it will be roadname dependent.  

Whatever the case... I must admit that the rollout of these cars has been frustratingly lengthy to say the least.  The quality is terrific, but I'd much rather see entire passenger sets produced together.  Seems some sets are produced that way, while others are produced piecemeal.    I guess Scott knows what works for his company and has a good handle on his target audience being the "scale crowd".  But the piecemeal approach is not a style of delivery I find particularly gratifying.  Oh well...

David

David, Thanks for your reply. My guess on the piecemeal approach is because there are not very much demand and the only way Scott can get the Econimics to work out is to run batches of the bare cars and then do the individual road names in sub batches.

I would like if anyone knows a schedule to post it here thanks. 

The builder of these passenger cars requires a minimum order of 1000 - 1200 cars per run. Some passenger train projects (NYC 20th Century, PRR 1948 Broadway) obtain sufficient reservations to meet this requirement while others do not (B&O Columbian).

When a project fails to meet the minimum yet seems to be reasonably popular several options exist:

- combine several projects to meet the minimum

- select a car(s) from a project and market them as individual cars painted and 

  lettered for other road names. This is what happened in the case of the B&O

  Columbian coaches. The builder needed 200-300 additional cars to meet the

  minimum to complete a project and the decision was made to do the B&O coach

  painted and lettered for multiple other roads since the car was very close to  

  being  the same Pullman - Standard prototype as used on the other roads.

There were sufficient reservations for the individual coaches that the first run of 200-300 was limited to the 4 most popular road names. This permitted the builder's minimum to be met to complete a project. The second run of coaches was added to the Santa Claus Super Chief train in order to again meet the 1000/1200 car minimum.

Considering that individual coaches and sleepers have been made for numerous road names the decision was made to offer a "finish set" for those wishing to complete a streamlined train. Once again, the minimum order issue exists with this project. At this point, reservations are not sufficient to move forward with doing these cars as a stand alone project.  Also at play is the fact that the builder requires a minimum order per paint scheme of about 25. The obvious conclusion is that no production date can be given for the "finish set" since reservations are not sufficient at this time.

rheil,

Thanks for the responce above. One thought I had was if there were fewer cars per set inorder to bring the per set cost down.

Not sure what drove the price  up to average about $250/car. Not sure if any one of the proposed cars was a lot more expenxive than the others?

I think the proposed set was to be 4 cars .....Finish Set: Diner, Observation, Combine, Sleeper Set.

It seems like for a finish set that the observation car in fish tail design probably would be a given FOR THE FIRST CAR.

The Diner seems like a natrual for the second car.

Maybe the finish set at a minimum is a 2 car set which I would hope would reduce the total a lot and increase the number of buyers.

Maybe also a 3 car option could be offered consisting of the Observation, Dinner, Combine.

The orginal 4 car proposal could be option#4 consisting of

Observation, Diner, Combine ang lastly the sleeper set.

Maybe with these 4 options a buyer can reduce the costand yet get enough to finish a set.

rheil your thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.

Pop,

Your ideas are valid, but the problem is the 1000 car minimum from the builder which is why Scott was hoping to get reservations for 100 or so 4 car finish sets and then combine that with something else to get to the 1000 car minimum.

As far as cost increases, indeed the cost has been driven up to about $235 per car retail for the PRR 1938 Broadway Limited due to production cost. These GGD cars are basically custom built and finished vs cars that are produced from molds.

The best comparison I can give would be in 2 rail where individual aluminum extrusion scale length passenger cars are available as kits. The basic kit is $150, trucks would be about $60, decals $10, interior and lights $25-35. So, the kit cost would be about $ 240 then you have to build, paint, and letter it to get a GGD equivalent.

A friend of mine owns a well known (in 2 rail) custom passenger car building company. He charges about $650 for a similar built up car and has commented to me that he would charge at least $200 or so just to paint an already built car to the quality of the paint and lettering on the GGD cars.

We'll see what happens on the "finish sets". Scott definitely wants to do them so GGD will be considering all options for doing them in 2014.

In reference to the issue on dome cars. the B&O dome is a unique Pullman Standard design that is nothing like the NP and GN dome cars.We want to do more accurate domes for NP and GN so that issue remains to be resolved and is the reason the finish sets do not have the B&O dome car included.

David,

I believe my most recent posts provided answers to some of your questions.

Specifically;

- GGD usually does complete trains at one time (1938 20th Century, 1940 20th Century, 1948 20th Century, Empire State Express, 1938 Santa Fe Chief, 1948 Broadway Limited, 1938 Broadway Limited, 1950's Santa Fe Super Chief, CP Canadian, SP Lark).

The few exceptions are caused primarily by the minimum car order issue.

- the finish set does not include a dome since the B&O dome  is nowhere near close to being prototypically correct for NP, GN, or UP. Remember that the GGD ads state that the finish sets are based on cars from the B&O Columbian.  The Budd style dome car will be addressed in the future.

I talked to GGD folks today and they said the lightweight aluminum passenger cars had arrived in the port of Oakland and they were expecting their truck delivery in about 20 minutes. After some inspection at GGD they expect to ship out about mid week. I estimate lv CA 12/11, LV CHICAGO 12/18, ARRIVE here 12/19. Just in time for Christmas.

I just got a UPS Notification that I have a shipment coming. I think it is the 2nd run of my GGD Light weight Passenger cars. Based on previous items coming from GGD and considering the load of packages thisa time of year I am guessing that I will see the itemsMid week next week and East coasters would have a chance to see them I think by Thursdaythe 19th.

Has anyone else received notification?

Got my ship notice as well. Dec 17 estimated delivery to Virginia.

Boilermaker I see my UPS Notice now says Monday 12/16 Delivery,

Did you order the "complete set" also?

Boilermaker does your GGD Car's appear to be moving? All my UPS Notice says is that a lable has been printed. I do not see any movement to the UPS Train loading area North of GGD's location at all???

I realize this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue.  But quite frankly, if a vendor cannot step up to building a complete set of cars... then how do they really expect buyers to pony up close to $200/car for a few years, and then be told the finish set may not be made???  

Sorry guys, I'm out if that's the case.  I already have purchased a couple of NP coaches. Now what are we supposed to do with them if the finish-sets aren't produced?    At this point, I also had plans to purchase some GN coaches with the finish sets to follow.  But with this lack of commitment on the finish sets, I'm canceling my GN pre-order with the dealer who had several already on order anyway.  If they still have some when/if the finish sets are produced, I'll reconsider purchasing at that time.  Meanwhile, I'll be ordering no more GGD ala carte cars again, until there's a much firmer commitment that an entire train will be produced.

David

No, it hasnt moved yet. I did order all 4 numbers though.

David I understand what you said above. I am hoping scott will try another approach to another run at finish cars. I made a proposal that Heikl said would not work out but I think they could get more buyers if you could pick and choose your own finidh set of cars. Maybe with a move to a different country in the mix maybe the prices can come down for the finish set.

Boilermaker help me with your reply. Are you saying that because you have 4 different numbers coming you would be one of the last to ship from GGD's check out process?

I have 2 sets of the 4 different numbers coming so I would also be toward the end of the process.

I wrote Marcie tonight and asked if the cars had left GGD. I will post what she says when I get an answer.

I have no idea what their order of shipping is. Scott posted something a few days ago that sounded like they were shipping the Super Chief first, then the coaches. Perhaps they just created all the labels at once and are shipping them as they're ready to go, it would be a question for someone at GGD.  It would make sense to me that if you ordered 4 numbers, they'd slap a UPS label on the shipping carton and off it goes (assuming they ship from the factory in full set cartons). All I currently know is a label was created, and UPS does not yet show any tracking info.

OK that is about where I am also. Still have time to make a Christmas delivery but fading fast. hOPE THEY MAY HAVE WORKED THIS WEEKEND TO GET THEM READY FOR A mONDAY PICK UP.

I got my shipping notice for an anticipated December 18 delivery.  That makes sense since mine are only going from the Bay area to Arizona. 

In terms of individual cars, I personally prefer this option.  Since most trains didn't end up as matched sets much past the inaugural run, I like the option to mix and match various manufacturers cars for a more prototypical train.  For my Amtrak set, I have three GGD sleepers, a K-Line Budd diner, the PS coaches that are arriving soon, and I'm working on reworking an old PS corrugated prototype baggage lounge into a crew dorm while repainting a K-Line baggage into Amtrak.  I also plan on adding an Atlas Budd 10-6 to mix up my sleepers.  Not sure if I want to add an observation or not.  

My holy grail would be a Budd Slumbercoach which would be a single order car most likely especially considering the Northern Pacific ones were the only stainless cars in the fleet.

When my cars arrive, I'll post pictures.  Hoping to get a good break-in run with them between Christmas and New Years.

David,

As far as not offering a complete train at the same time I previously listed all of the GGD trains that were offered as sets. Atlas has followed the "car at a time" philosophy for how many years now with their California Zephyr with apparent success?

Perhaps you should contact Scott Mann directly through e-mail if you have some ideas on how to assist him in providing the finish sets while not losing money. I know for fact he would love to get some ideas on how to do this, and I have a number of friends who, like you, would love to see the finish sets.

Scott is very agreeable to receiving input from customers, particularly input that will help sell trains at a profit.

GG1, I received my UPS noticed Gec 10th with estimated delivery Dec 16 but it appears that the Cars have not left GGD so I am on thin ice for delivery before Christmas. I am goping that Monday I get a revised UPS notice showing movement of the cars.These are the light weight Aluminum coaches.

I had posted above some thoughts to get the finished set of cars back on track since I don't think Scott has enough orders to run the finish set at this point. Since 4 cars will run about $1k.

I had offered some thoughts about doing single cars but basically was told above that would not work. In my case I might want 4 cars but not the 4 in the finish set 4. I would like 2 of the Fish Tail observation cars and maybe 2 of the dinners. I bought the various sleepers and could finish with only those 2 cars in each set.

Sounds like it was a good thing I reserved the '51 SC set. GGD has charged me for them so I should be getting them soon. I almost cancelled my reservation too!

If you bought the SC directly from GGD you should be getting a UPS Notice of a shipping lable being created.

Jonathan, you and I seem to be on the same page here. I've been doing a rainbow train with a hodgepodge of cars from K-line, Atlas and GGD. I too would love to pick up a slumbercoach, BUT IMO, before that gets done, we the Amtrak heads really need some 21" aluminum amfleet cars. Like, badly. Between Phase II, III, IV, and IVb, the short lived capstone splotch scheme, and all the service labels (northeast direct, etc...), there's plenty of schemes to make. Then add the cafe cars and all the paint job iterations (Metroliner Service, the Northeast Regional, and so on). A set of coaches with single sale cafe cars (since there is more than one type of cafe that exists) would probably be the way to do it. Then offer Viewliners to top it all off. You'd only need 1 or 2, so even doing those in brass could be palatable. I picked up an unlettered Atlas CZ diner to workover, de-skirt and letter in Phase III.

Oh but wait theres more, the same extrusion die can also be used to make Metroliners (and of course we know if you slap a keystone on it you can sell it), and then subsequently, cab cars.

Anyways, here's a little rainbow train fun...

I've mentioned Amfleet and Viewliners a couple of times to Scott and he says Amtrak just doesn't sell.  

I have asked Scott about scale Amfleet cars as well.  I think they would be a good seller in both two and three rail just because no manufacturer outside of higher end brass has come close to doing these cars justice and many have been in service for nearly 40 years now.  Atlas did well with Horizon cars in Phase III and Phase IV.  My collection of Bachmann and Walthers HO Amfleet cars look pretty good mixed with my Walthers Phase III heritage diners, coaches and sleepers.

Nice rainbow train Boilermaker!

Well, it must be selling somewhere... MTH has run an awful lot of Genesis and F40 locos over the years and finding them after the fact is not the easiest thing to do at reasonable prices. So someone is buying them.

Its not unprecedented for Scott to propose a project and wait a bit to fill the reservations (the Lark, the B&O P7 come to mind), so why not give it a try? Sounds like at least 3 sets are spoken for in this thread, I can think of a few other forumites who have also put 21" and amtrak cars in the same sentence before.