Giving a USH 2-10-0 some real power

Very nice Rob!….get up with me, and we’ll get you away from Toyota 0 hose, and into something a lot more substantial, like this killer heavy duty CV shaft!….

Pat

Pat,

Thanks for the compliment. That drive shaft/CV joint looks way more efficient than the vacuum hose U-joint.  Overall your pics show an impeccable job.  But is probably more money and harder for me to install?

What can I say, I like the simple solution.  I envy your machining skills.

By the way what do you think of the torsion arm on some of these USH gearboxes?

Rob

How much weight are you going to add?

Ed

@Ed Kelly posted:

How much weight are you going to add?

Ed

The weight that came with the loco is fine and not too heavy unlike some other USH locos.  Where I see weight being an issue is more in the tenders.  Most USH tenders are too light for decent contact with the track in my experience.

@swrr posted:

Pat,

Thanks for the compliment. That drive shaft/CV joint looks way more efficient than the vacuum hose U-joint.  Overall your pics show an impeccable job.  But is probably more money and harder for me to install?

What can I say, I like the simple solution.  I envy your machining skills.

By the way what do you think of the torsion arm on some of these USH gearboxes?

Rob

That looks like somebody’s add on, but maybe perhaps the factory was trying to overcome rocking of the gearbox. My preferred method is a spring loaded carrier bearing like the one pictured on that Hudson chassis. Beings the drivers are on a suspension system that can articulate, so should the gear box. If the gear box is allowed to follow the drivers in vertical movements, then the shaft can’t bind, and thus result is extremely smooth operation. This is also where vacuum hose, or a CV shaft comes in handy, as this allows a little “wander” into the driveline, we want it to freely articulate, but not give us lost motion……

Pat

Pat,

Thanks for the info.  Very useful.

Rob

Most USH engines I have had a torque arm, Max Gray had a brass built up gear box.

@harley rider posted:

Most USH engines I have had a torque arm, Max Gray had a brass built up gear box.

Most what I’ve seen are carrier bearing type, ….like the West Side KTM J3a chassis I’ve pictured above …..

Pat

Yes West Side was a 1970s model, USH was 1960s to early 1970s, and Max Gray was about 1950s to 1964 or so. There were changes all along.

@harley rider posted:

Yes West Side was a 1970s model, USH was 1960s to early 1970s, and Max Gray was about 1950s to 1964 or so. There were changes all along.

West Side also jumped around to a couple different vendors, KTM, Samhongsa, and I believe some Korea Brass??…Max Gray wasn’t strictly using KTM either,…..no??…that Japanese stuff built by KTM are like tanks!..

Pat

All,

Thanks for the bit of history on MG and USH and for the observations about the variety drive shafts set ups.

I want to add that these motor conversions are generally very affordable.  Motor is usually $25 then pennies for the two 3/8” 6-32 screws and washers.  The length of hose used is about 50 cents.  I am able to get by with original motor mount; it is crude but effective.  The wiring is unchanged in most cases.

SWRR, you have a rugged brass 2-10-0 that will last a lifetime or 2. No Zinc pest to worry about.

Would love to see a running video of the finished project! Eventually I will acquire a Decapod to do for myself. Old brass always scared me away, but after I get some experience with the MG K5 I have a feeling I will be much more comfortable with it.

@jonnyspeed posted:

Would love to see a running video of the finished project! Eventually I will acquire a Decapod to do for myself. Old brass always scared me away, but after I get some experience with the MG K5 I have a feeling I will be much more comfortable with it.

It really is pretty easy.  I did the motor swap on a MG/Toby ATSF Mike without a problem similar to the decapod.  MG pieces I have mixed feeling about since many have built up gearboxes.  Stick to the the pieces that have gearboxes one can disassemble usually marked on the bottom with ‘KTM’

I have a small fleet of 5 of these USH I1 2-10-0s and my experience is they have plenty of power as is.     I don't run at a club and my longest trains are 20-23 cars, my max mainline grade is 1 1/2 % and my curves, including one on the grade are 52 inch radius.   

I find that the MG locos I have ran too slow, so I have remotored those primarily for that reason.    It is weird to find one that I think runs too slow when a lot of the newer stuff from mfg that also do 3 rail seem to run way too fast.

I never cared for those Max Gray gear boxes either, …..when they came across the bench, they got motors & NWSL gear boxes,…..agreed, the KTM’s stock gear box is really good out the gate, couple that with a Pittman, & you’re cooking with gas….I wish Scott Mann would sell his “standard” steam locomotive gear box set as a separate sale item……the ones in the 3rd Rail engines are super smooth too,….I just recently replanted a 3rd Rail gear box into a Weaver for a world of difference!….

Pat

@prrjim posted:

I have a small fleet of 5 of these USH I1 2-10-0s and my experience is they have plenty of power as is.     I don't run at a club and my longest trains are 20-23 cars, my max mainline grade is 1 1/2 % and my curves, including one on the grade are 52 inch radius.  

I find that the MG locos I have ran too slow, so I have remotored those primarily for that reason.    It is weird to find one that I think runs too slow when a lot of the newer stuff from mfg that also do 3 rail seem to run way too fast.

Wow..."5" sounds like a lot to me...only 594(?) to go and you'll match Pennsy's fleet! 

Mark in Oregon

I really like the USH IIs and they run so well for me.     I got kind of carried away.    I had a couple and I decided I needed (described as wanted), another one and found a new one in the box from Allegheny Scale Models.    It was more than I wanted to pay, but it had never been assembled, and I had not see any others in that time frame.    So I bought it.    Then the next  year, another popped up on one of the forums for sale and was basically new too, so I couldn't resist, for the half the price of the first one.    etc. etc.  

I supposed buying more stuff is sort of an addiction with us model RRs.    At least I justfiy my purschases with the statement I do get them running and I do operate them.

Anything pretty much made by the vendor KTM is rock solid, …no matter the importer, ……West Side, USHobbies, Max Gray, etc,…..I’ve never had to replace the gearbox on anything KTM. Some Korean made models required a gear box swap out the gate to clean them up,….like I’ve said before, 3rd Rail’s gear boxes for large steam are of a really nice stout design, …it’d be nice if Scott offered the gear box, axle gear & base pan. Most of us could figure out how to implement it in other models,…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Anything pretty much made by the vendor KTM is rock solid, …no matter the importer, ……West Side, USHobbies, Max Gray, etc,…..I’ve never had to replace the gearbox on anything KTM. Some Korean made models required a gear box swap out the gate to clean them up,….like I’ve said before, 3rd Rail’s gear boxes for large steam are of a really nice stout design, …it’d be nice if Scott offered the gear box, axle gear & base pan. Most of us could figure out how to implement it in other models,…..

Pat

Pat, yes I couldn’t agree more regarding the KTM pieces.  If I were just getting into O scale 2-rail I would focus on acquiring KTM locos.  The only complaint I have is that the plastic idler gear in the KTM steam engine gearboxes sometimes (rarely) have a broken tooth or more leading to less than optimal running.  I mean some of these locos are 60 years old. Plastic over that time does get brittle.  Replacements can be had from NWSL and All Nation for $25 and $10, respectively.  I have used both and in my opinion the All Nation is better.  It is 3D printed polycarbonate plastic and fits just fine. The NWSL is delrin and is a two piece design screwed together.  Moreover, I have to ream the gear center hole to get it to fit.   For $25 it should fit without a problem.

There are KTM metal idler gears out there but are rare.  Reportedly, they are of course more durable but noisy.  

I also agree that Sunset should sell aftermarket gearboxes.  

Rob

@swrr posted:

Pat, yes I couldn’t agree more regarding the KTM pieces.  If I were just getting into O scale 2-rail I would focus on acquiring KTM locos.  The only complaint I have is that the plastic idler gear in the KTM steam engine gearboxes sometimes (rarely) have a broken tooth or more leading to less than optimal running.  I mean some of these locos are 60 years old. Plastic over that time does get brittle.  Replacements can be had from NWSL and All Nation for $25 and $10, respectively.  I have used both and in my opinion the All Nation is better.  It is 3D printed polycarbonate plastic and fits just fine. The NWSL is delrin and is a two piece design screwed together.  Moreover, I have to ream the gear center hole to get it to fit.   For $25 it should fit without a problem.

There are KTM metal idler gears out there but are rare.  Reportedly, they are of course more durable but noisy.  

I also agree that Sunset should sell aftermarket gearboxes.  

Rob

Yep, …I’ve done a few re-harvest from too far gone 3rd Rail engines into MG’s and Weavers….the gear ratios are perfect, and it’s a fairly simple painless swap,….

Pat

Interesting and timely thread. I'm looking at acquiring a USH I1 here potentially soon and was wondering on the running capabilities.

Thanks!