Hey guys, the re-release of the GGD daylight with the 3/4 domes seemed to be a huge success and I’m just curious if anybody out here would want a GGD lark to go with it. The Lark was done years ago in extremely limited quantities and is impossible to find. I would reserve it in a heartbeat and I just want to put a feeler out to see who else on this forum is interested. also I have not yet asked Scott about doing the lark. I just want to see how many people are interested.
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You and me both. The Lark set is at the very top of my list of wants. I asked Scott about it when I reserved my Daylight set last year and it was a firm no. The first run barely received enough reservations to make it a go.
Personally I think it could be viable due to there being a lot more hobbyists that are aware of GGD passenger sets than in 2012. There are also many more who are now aware of the existence of the Lark since Lionel did a version of it. There are also many of us still looking for this set. Despite the headache it took to make this set a decade ago, I’d like to see it given another chance. The demand for these high end passenger sets seems to be higher than it was when the Lark was first done. I think that set was produced ahead of its time
I’d be in for a Lark run 2 for sure and know of others that would too. If there’s is a reluctance for another rerun, I’d suggest the Cascade. It was the night train equivalent of the Cascade Daylight.
I think either would find adequate support because Scotts products have significantly better product recognition today than at the time the Lark was produced.
IMO of course.
Cheers 😜
I would be in for a Lark for a rerun but I would rather see a SP Cascade done first!
@BigJohn&theWork posted:I would be in for a Lark for a rerun but I would rather see a SP Cascade done first!
OK, I give up,,,,,,,,,what is the SP "Cascade"?
@TrainBub posted:I’d be in for a Lark run 2 for sure and know of others that would too. If there’s is a reluctance for another rerun, I’d suggest the Cascade. It was the night train equivalent of the Cascade Daylight.
I think either would find adequate support because Scotts products have significantly better product recognition today than at the time the Lark was produced.
IMO of course.
Cheers 😜
The cascade is a great idea! I don’t think It’s never been offered in O scale. I just asked a friend if he would want a GGD Cascade & he said Yes!!!
I wonder how similar the consists were between the Lark and Cascade? I know both had the articulated kitchen, diner, coffee shop and the trains were mostly sleepers. Maybe it would be possible to do both in one run. I’m partial to the Lark because I intend to model coast line/San Joaquin valley SP. I think the Cascade ran the same route as the Shasta Daylight if I’m not mistaken (Oregon division SP is not my area of expertise)?
Perhaps a postwar Lark instead of the 1941 version to shake things up a bit. Not sure how much the consist changed offhand without consulting a few books.
@Hot Water posted:OK, I give up,,,,,,,,,what is the SP "Cascade"?
@BigJohn&theWork posted:
WOW! Thanks for that. Must admit that I was not aware of that train. I like that even better than the Lark, and if I was still in the 3RS hobby, I would definitely purchase that (I already had the GGD full scale post war Daylight train set, pulled by a black, skirt-less GS-4 by Sunset/erd Rail).
Hmmmm. What’s missing in this SP streamlined consist ???
I see a smooth silver observation, Daylight dome, Sunset Ltd sleeper, smooth diner, Daylight 2car articulated, though tough to see, a green Harriman baggage and black GS2.
Oh yah !!! One or two LARK or CASCADE cars !!!! 
I’m in for Lark or preferably Cascade !!!!!!!!!!
@TrainBub posted:Hmmmm. What’s missing in this SP streamlined consist ???
I see a smooth silver observation, Daylight dome, Sunset Ltd sleeper, smooth diner, Daylight 2car articulated, though tough to see, a green Harriman baggage and black GS2.Well, those types of cars, especially that "Daylight dome, didn't arrive until after steam, and that GS-2, were gone.
Oh yah !!! One or two LARK or CASCADE cars !!!! I’m in for Lark or preferably Cascade !!!!!!!!!!
Who cares Hot Water !!! I’ll throw some ice water on your comment. Im having fun. If it makes you happy, I’ll sub a Daylight GS4, Or E8 or whatever suits you. The black GS2 looks superb so I use it to please me 😜😜
@TrainBub posted:Who cares Hot Water !!! I’ll throw some ice water on your comment. Im having fun. If it makes you happy, I’ll sub a Daylight GS4, Or E8 or whatever suits you. The black GS2 looks superb so I use it to please me 😜😜
Well,,,,,,,,,all things considered, this IS the 3RS, i.e. 3-Rail SCALE Forum, and those of us that did, and still do, model in the SCALE concept, try to be as prototype as possible.
Maybe you would be better suited in posting on the 3-Rail Traditional Toy Trains Forum.
@Hot Water posted:Well,,,,,,,,,all things considered, this IS the 3RS, i.e. 3-Rail SCALE Forum, and those of us that did, and still do, model in the SCALE concept, try to be as prototype as possible.
Maybe you would be better suited in posting on the 3-Rail Traditional Toy Trains Forum.
I don’t think so. I go where I like and contribute - perfect or flawed. If you don’t like what I contribute - just ignore it.
@Hot Water posted:WOW! Thanks for that. Must admit that I was not aware of that train. I like that even better than the Lark, and if I was still in the 3RS hobby, I would definitely purchase that (I already had the GGD full scale post war Daylight train set, pulled by a black, skirt-less GS-4 by Sunset/erd Rail).
I am a big fan of the GGD SP Passenger sets made so far! Keep 'em coming! A Cascade would be incredible!.. or dare I say Golden State someday as well!
This is a video of a 1950's 15 car Sunset Limited. While Daylight PA's are prototypical to pull the train, the variation made in the 2nd PA run (which are in the video) are better suited for a Cascade or Shasta Daylight with their snow plows and roof top ice breakers. Although my video is better suited for the 3 Rail Traditional Toy Trains Forum 
, I figured there may be a few in this thread and corner of the hobby interested to see this set running!
Heres to a GGD Cascade!
@BigJohn&theWork posted:This is a video of a 1950's 15 car Sunset Limited. While Daylight PA's are prototypical to pull the train, the variation made in the 2nd PA run (which are in the video) are better suited for a Cascade or Shasta Daylight with their snow plows and roof top ice breakers. Although my video is better suited for the 3 Rail Traditional Toy Trains Forum
Heres to a GGD Cascade!
Wow - I didn't think that was possible. That is impressive seeing a consist of that many GGD cars being pulled around the layout. My experience with GGD cars is a beautiful as they are, they absolutely carry that magnificence in both looks and mass, as they are HEAVY! As a stout model train ought to be!
The legacy GS-4 in the photo can't handle all 12 cars.
But it sounds like I ought to consider myself very fortunate - As you can see, I'm very happy to own a complete GGD Lark set.
That being said, if there was enough significant different in the consist make-up, I'd certainly consider a Cascade consist myself.
The Vision GS-4 will more than handle the latest run Daylight set with those magnificent ball bearing equipped trucks. With the smoke turned off, the entire train draws about 1.7 amps running on level track. My set being 13 cars including the brass dome lounge which is more than twice the weight of the other cars.
Another reason for a Lark/Cascade reissue: improved trucks and diaphragm design!
@JPaunicka posted:Wow - I didn't think that was possible. That is impressive seeing a consist of that many GGD cars being pulled around the layout. My experience with GGD cars is a beautiful as they are, they absolutely carry that magnificence in both looks and mass, as they are HEAVY! As a stout model train ought to be!
The legacy GS-4 in the photo can't handle all 12 cars.
But it sounds like I ought to consider myself very fortunate - As you can see, I'm very happy to own a complete GGD Lark set.
That being said, if there was enough significant different in the consist make-up, I'd certainly consider a Cascade consist myself.
What a gorgeous set!
It’s those huge can motors and powerful horizontal drives that get the job done!
The Cascade would be significantly different as the cars for the Lark are of a different build than the prototypes for the Cascade.
@JPaunicka posted:Wow - I didn't think that was possible. That is impressive seeing a consist of that many GGD cars being pulled around the layout. My experience with GGD cars is a beautiful as they are, they absolutely carry that magnificence in both looks and mass, as they are HEAVY! As a stout model train ought to be!
The legacy GS-4 in the photo can't handle all 12 cars.
But it sounds like I ought to consider myself very fortunate - As you can see, I'm very happy to own a complete GGD Lark set.
That being said, if there was enough significant different in the consist make-up, I'd certainly consider a Cascade consist myself.
Thanks for showing. I’ve never seen the entire Lark consist shown “as one”. Really NICE !!!!!!
@JPaunicka posted:Wow - I didn't think that was possible. That is impressive seeing a consist of that many GGD cars being pulled around the layout. My experience with GGD cars is a beautiful as they are, they absolutely carry that magnificence in both looks and mass, as they are HEAVY! As a stout model train ought to be!
The legacy GS-4 in the photo can't handle all 12 cars.
But it sounds like I ought to consider myself very fortunate - As you can see, I'm very happy to own a complete GGD Lark set.
That being said, if there was enough significant different in the consist make-up, I'd certainly consider a Cascade consist myself.
Absolutely gorgeous! I don’t suppose you can show us a video of it running? 
Glad to see there is interest in a Lark and/ or Cascade. At this point it seems that the Cascade is getting more love. Hopefully even more ppl will chime in.
It doesn’t seem like it would be difficult to put together an 8 car set with separate sale add-ons. And let’s not forget the run through Northern Pacific 10-6 sleepers and the 44 seat chair cars added in November of 1950.
These cars could also be made in silver with the red stripe. And lastly the 3 unit articulated kitchen/ dorm- diner- lounge was repainted in the American freedom colors.
lots of options with this train!
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Glad to see there is interest in a Lark and/ or Cascade. At this point it seems that the Cascade is getting more love. Hopefully even more ppl will chime in.
It doesn’t seem like it would be difficult to put together an 8 car set with separate sale add-ons. And let’s not forget the run through Northern Pacific 10-6 sleepers and the 44 seat chair cars added in November of 1950.
These cars could also be made in silver with the red stripe. And lastly the 3 unit articulated kitchen/ dorm- diner- lounge was repainted in the American freedom colors.
lots of options with this train!
I’m with you on this. Let’s hope this thread can attract more SP fans. Those that grumble “can’t find any Lark cars/product”need to chime in here AND email Scott.” And request a Cascade run. We’ve been told the Daylight market is now maxed out with its beautiful run 2. So be it. I understand the Lark run was Very Small. Well that’s done and in the past. The Q is long at SSGG but Let’s aspire for a Never Done CASCADE.
What say the SP fans ????
@Hot Water posted:OK, I give up,,,,,,,,,what is the SP "Cascade"?
And I too give up, what's a Lark?
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:And I too give up, what's a Lark?
It’s a Southern Pacific overnight train that closely followed the route of the Daylight. There’s a picture of the GGD 12 car set that was made years ago, on this thread.
lionel just released their own version of the Lark. But they used their PRR Broadway limited tooling to do it.
SP nut here. Is there any variation in the paint or striping between the various two-tone grey cars? I have a pair of Overland style cars with orange stripes - looks great, but I have no idea whether there ever was a prototype.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Glad to see there is interest in a Lark and/ or Cascade. At this point it seems that the Cascade is getting more love. Hopefully even more ppl will chime in.
It doesn’t seem like it would be difficult to put together an 8 car set with separate sale add-ons. And let’s not forget the run through Northern Pacific 10-6 sleepers and the 44 seat chair cars added in November of 1950.
These cars could also be made in silver with the red stripe. And lastly the 3 unit articulated kitchen/ dorm- diner- lounge was repainted in the American freedom colors.
lots of options with this train!
I agree with all that you say !!! The Cascade could be a pretty “meaty” offering.
@bob2 posted:SP nut here. Is there any variation in the paint or striping between the various two-tone grey cars? I have a pair of Overland style cars with orange stripes - looks great, but I have no idea whether there ever was a prototype.
I haven’t seen any variations, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t miss something. Do you have a picture of your overland style cars you could share?
@TrainBub posted:I agree with all that you say !!! The Cascade could be a pretty “meaty” offering.
Yes it could, similar to the Olympian Hiawatha being offered in 3 paint schemes. I think we should try & see how many 2R guys would want the Cascade
I will get photos today. They were painted by somebody decades ago in Sacramento who apparently had access to SP enamels.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Yes it could, similar to the Olympian Hiawatha being offered in 3 paint schemes. I think we should try & see how many 2R guys would want the Cascade
All 3R AND 2R are welcome to contribute here !!!! ALL SP fans Welcome !!! 3R or 2R alone will never receive enough reservations to fly.
Well, that's a good thing - these are 2-rail. I think they were done in the late 1950s in Sacramento - at least that's the story I got with these fairly well built Kasiner cars. I also have a Daylight coach done with SP enamels, perhaps by the same guy? It was a kit - B-C Models made them out of embossed tin plate and wood. As good as they got before Sunset entered the game.
I rather suspect the orange stripe was the modeler's artistic license, but anything is possible with the SP. I swear I saw a Mogul with orange lettering on cab and tender, and I know I saw grey-boilered steam. The folks who restored the San Jose Pacific found gold lettering on the tender under a bunch of layers of paint. And recently I saw a photo of a CNW yellow and green coach with Southern Pacific on the letterboard. What's next? Tuscan?
@TrainBub posted:All 3R AND 2R are welcome to contribute here !!!! ALL SP fans Welcome !!! 3R or 2R alone will never receive enough reservations to fly.
How would the vast majority of the 2-Rail SCALE modelers know about such a potential offering? This is of course the 3RS Forum, and I bet very few 2-Rail SCALE modelers visit this specific forum.
@Hot Water posted:How would the vast majority of the 2-Rail SCALE modelers know about such a potential offering? This is of course the 3RS Forum, and I bet very few 2-Rail SCALE modelers visit this specific forum.
Boy I don’t know. I visit this 3 Rail scale forum, the two rail scale forum, and the “toy train” forum. You never know what might show up thats interesting. And besides, I’m always looking to learn something new. Its sometimes a problem getting the word out and being restricted to one forum when a topic could be of interest in multiple forums.
I posted a 2R topic and left the link to this thread.
Why did they close it? Did you inject politics or something? I could find nothing offensive about your post.
@bob2 posted:Why did they close it? Did you inject politics or something? I could find nothing offensive about your post.
They don’t want active multiple /duplicate threads. The inactive (closed to replies) post will be “pushed” down the list and be viewed less and less. This is why it’s hard to get info into different forums. Some will find it and use its link. Thats useful.
So it’s important to choose the most “efficient” forum to hopefully reach the most people that will be interested in a given topic.
A Cascade is more likely. Not only were the reservations small for the Lark it was the most expensive train made. And there were sets left over for about a year. With the Baggage and the RPO being made out of brass and the diner using fluted extrusions and the sleepers smooth side extrusion it was a nightmare. I think if Scott talked to builder about doing it again he would be told where to go or the price would go way up.
While there is good interest in this forum topic, I think the Cascade will have just as much trouble as the Lark did 10 years ago. The Cascade is basically the same consist as the Lark minus the “stream-styled” baggage and RPO that had to be done in brass and the Cascade had a blunt end observation. Both trains are all Pullman with the 3 unit diner.
The problem the Cascade has is that it’s even more obscure than the Lark and was in operation for a shorter time. I don’t believe an accurate Shasta Daylight has been done yet so how are enough Cascades going to get ordered? In a broader market, the Lark should theoretically have broader appeal since it is the overnight equivalent of the Coast Daylight. Any coastline SP modeler would naturally want both trains in their fleet.
I think timing was the enemy of the original Lark run. I need to do some research to see how similar the various cars were between the Cascade and Lark consists. I think the only chance this has is if a combined run could be done where both trains can get made at the same time. Neither the Lark or Cascade will get enough orders by itself to fly. Just my opinion.
If you are talking about the streamlined Cascade they have zero cars in common. The Lark was all prewar cars, either Pullman or home made. The Cascade is all postwar Pullman cars. At least all the Cascade cars are smooth sided.
Both the Lark and Cascade were smooth sided trains. The Lark as built had skirts applied along the underbody. SP began removing the skirts in 1950 and the Cascade was delivered without skirts.
A postwar Lark and a Cascade could be produced with the same extrusions, save for the Lark triple unit diner which was fluted until 1960. The mix of Pullman sleeper floorplans (10-6, 4-4-2, etc.) is what I need to research but that is a less significant issue.
I think an argument could be made to do both trains in the postwar configuration and also supplement with orders for additional sleeper cars in TTG and simulated stainless for the 60s era modelers. That may help get the order volume up enough.
The outlying items are the Lark baggage and RPO which would need to be brass again and would have a much higher price. The Lark triple unit diner is another problem with it being fluted since it would need different extrusions. Careful planning would be needed by preceding a proposed Lark run with another fluted train and running extra extrusions.
Then there is the matter of the observation cars. The Cascade had a blunt end car from the beginning; the Lark kept the round end observations until 1957 when they were sent to Pullman for rebuilding into blunt end cars.
I wonder if maybe the Lark could be produced piecemeal in 2 releases assuming 1) enough orders are placed and 2) production scheduled to make manufacturing more convenient.
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