GP9 Model Comparison?

So who makes the best GP9? Lionel? Atlas? MTH?

 

Over 4000 GP9s were built, most over a 6 year period.  There were quite a few variations within that time.  What prototype (road name, specific road number) are you interested in modeling?

 

Here are some pictures of the Atlas GP7. Most noted difference would be the handrails. Atlas does the model with or without the Dynamic Brake Blister and has an interesting coupler cover to fill the pilot hole.  They also offer the model undecorated.
Custom paint project.   Click on the underlined phrase for a 21 picture slideshow.

Atlas models would not have full Legacy features.

I have WbB and MTH GP9's. The MTH wins easy for fine detail.....but the WbB suits me better as it runs like a clock and is a bit more 'rugged' with little fine detail to break. It's what your goal is. Fine scale detail or rugged runner......Only units to aviod is the light weight early Lionel with single motor....IMHO.

Williams.....

 

 

I have an MTH PS3 GP-9 in Milwaukee Road colors. It is probably my favorite engine on my layout. It crawls when you want it to, it can handle a long line of freight cars and the horn takes me back to the 50's when I heard that sound at night when I was laying in bed. I took the gears out of a Lionel GP-9 (2338?) and use that to have a multiple unit GP-9 duo. The Lionel was nice new, but it got old and tired.

I have a Lionel GP9 and really love it. Compared to my MTH GP7 PS3, the Lionel GP9 has the edge in detail, lights, sound and speed control. Sound in particular is amazing. Price was a little higher vs. PS3 but not unreasonable. The Lionel engine also has some neat features like volume control access under a magnetically attached cover on top of the engine. Same for battery access (9 volt).

 

So why does the PS3 get run more often on my layout? Two reasons. First, the Lionel electrocouplers do not work nearly as well as the MTH. The MTH electros on all engines will connect to a consist at low speeds (5 smph or so). Not so with the Lionel. You have to hit the target hard and if you have car against a stop you can end up with wheel spin.  I also run DCS. Eventually will get it set up to run Legacy but for now I have the Cab 1L base and remote. It works but is a little awkward for me vs. the DCS control. Weird throttle dial is not a good feature. Also, if you run conventional you can key sequence operate the MTH electros. NOT with the Lionel. You at least need to buy the Cab1L remote and base.

 

On smoke, I can't say because it doesn't work on my Lionel. The fan comes on but no smoke. This could be because of a known issue with the Lionel funnel not being steep enough so the fluid tends to get hung up rather than flowing down to the wick. The fix is to blow it out -- or in -- to break the bottleneck without getting fluid all over the place. This is a bit of a bummer for me. I don't run smoke a lot but love seeing it come out of the twin stacks on the GP's. The MTH smokes really well like you would expect.

 

Still, I have no regrets that I bought the Lionel and am pretty sure I'll be able to get the couplers and smoke to work right.  After that and once I get the Legacy connected to DCS I'll be getting more of the Legacy GP's.

 

My two cents.

 

S

I have an Atlas GP9 and a Legacy GP9, not a lot of difference between the 2:

 Here's the Atlas model:

 

Here's the Lionel prior to repaint:

 

Here it is after repainting into Seaboard Jolly Green Giant colors:

 

The Atlas unit has PS2 installed and runs sounds fine, but the Lionel Geep IMO has slightly better sounds, runs the same.

 

They match up pretty good dimensionally and the details are crisp on both.

I would go with the legacy GP9, can't top the sound under legacy plus very well detailed.

Since there is very little dimensional difference, if any, between a real GP7 and the GP9, I would guess Atlas O uses the same tooling for both. The main visual differences between a GP7 and a GP(, are the vertical handrail stanchions (solid bar stock on GP7 vs. "U" channels on the GP9), and a few louvered panels.

 

Later GP9s have different size cooling fans (36" diameter vs. 48" diameter on later production units).

I think there was another topic about the GP7 and someone from Atlas commented the GP7 was all new tooling, at least for the shell.

 

I haven't found the Atlas GP9 to be fragile at all.  I'll tell you this, both GP9s are a bit "touchy" when trying to take apart.  Not a PITA, but not as easy as my Railking 2-8-0 or RS3.  The area you have to be careful in is the cab, slide a piece of index card between the cab and the handrails so they don't scratch the paint.  Watch for pinched wiring when putting back together.

My experience is a little different. I have both Lionel Legacy GP-9 and Atlas O versions, and to me the Atlas is definitely more fragile. My latest Atlas O Geep had the rear handbrake cover detached, and two of the steps had fallen off, and most of the cab windows and one crewman had fallen off. Also, a number of parts come in small separate plastic bags, and have to be fitted and attached.

 

Included in these parts are the cab awnings, and attaching and gluing those in place is a delicate operation if you don't want glue to show. Also, the hoses are separate and have to be hand-attached, which is almost impossible since the hose ends are larger than the holes, and have be be filed down to fit, and even then it is not an easy task. There were two other separate parts, which I left off because I couldn't figure out what they were for, and there was nothing in the manual about any of the extra parts, what they are or where they went.

 

This said, I wouldn't really hesitate to get another Atlas Geep if it were a road name I wanted, in that they run well and look great. If it were the same engine, between Atlas and Lionel (and this goes for the GP35s as well), although the Atlas O is ever so slightly better detailed, I'd go with Lionel Legacy version. The Lionel has superior sound and superior cruise control, and the small parts are more robust. 

Thank you everyone for the responses! The similarities between the Atlas and Lionel GP9 locomotives makes me think I really can't go wrong here!

I have a MTH Railking Scale GP9.  B&O passenger livery and looks great!   The sound is true of the 567 prime mover, which I used to hear everyday as a kid.   Smoke is great as MTH is known for, and the detail is quite good.   I'm not a rivet counter so it looks good enough for me. 

 

I also have a Williams dummy GP 9 in B&O passenger livery.  Detail is nowhere near the same as the MTH but the two look good enough together when lashed up.

 

 

I'm running with the Atlas Geep as the best overall.  Better looking trucks are just one reason.   One issue with so many models out there, and this seems to be more of a problem in O gauge that other scales..is the trucks are just too small.  This frequently includes wheel base, but extends to the over all size as well.   Why so tiny?  I'm guessing that the engineers either forget about shrink with the die-cast zinc material they use, or factor in the wrong amount. Net result: tiny trucks on an otherwise OK model.  One outfit that got past this problem was Athearn Trains, but of course they are HO, and use plastic for their sideframes. The Atlas loco is a bit more delicate than some others, but you pay for a more scale appearance. The issue of sound leaves you stuck, AFAIC, 'cuz  MTH EMD 567 sound in Proto 2 is the best ever !   Buy a dummy Atlas GEEP and pop in Proto 2...FTW !

One item that has not been mentioned is that the Atlas units have a cast metal chassis. As such, the Atlas units are quite a bit heavier than the MTH or Lionel units which have a stamped sheet metal chassis. I believe that the Atlas units weigh in the neighborhood of 6 pounds vs the roughly 4 pounds for the Lionel or MTH units. I always liked the cast metal chassis that Atlas uses.

 

The Lionel unit has the Liontruck design. The the Liontruck design greatly reduces the forces on the the motor as there is just a coupling between the motor and drive gear rather than the drive gear being pressed onto the motor shaft. The motors do not swivel inside the body when the locomotive goes through curves so there is not tugging on the wires. Thus, a greatly reduced chance of wires breaking free. I like that about the Lionel units.

 

As far as shrinkage is concerned:

http://www2.basf.us//PLASTICSW...?id=0901a5e180005b3e

http://www.zinc.org/general/WhyZincDieCasting_en.pdf

The scale distance between the wheel sets of the two drive axle truck (B) should be 9 feet (2 1/4 inches in O scale). Any shorter than that is most likely due to gearing limitations rather than someone not factoring material physical constraints.

 

BTW (a little off topic) the distance between wheel sets on the truck for my 2343 is 2 1/4 inches or 9 feet in O scale.

Wheel base depends on the truck being modeled, as AAR type B trucks, and the Baldwin / Westinghouse version both are longer in wheel base than a Blomberg truck. With what we pay for these locomotives, there's NO excuse for not getting the trucks to work correctly, and be the exact size.  Years ago, Rivarossi developed a system for horizontal motors in conjunction with swiveling trucks underneath.  Such a system is distantly related to the Lionel drive today.  With some re-engineering, this type of set-up could be used in O scale engines, both two and three rail.  This would allow the use of a truck similar to the old 2343 Lionel model with it's internal, horizontal drive shaft....and scale size and appearance. Helical cut gearing made the Rivarossi drive work.