MTH Instruction manual says: "lightly coat the motor worm gear and bronze drive gear (in the truck block) with grease."
Anyone know what product to use?
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I, like many of us here, use Red N Tacky or Labelle 106.
Thank you for the reply...and do you do this once per year or every 50 hrs of run time?
I do it for every engine as I receive it - there is no telling that the previous owner or initial manufacturer did the right thing. For gear boxes, once I've done this well, I typically only inspect and sometimes re-apply when convenient (already have the loco open that far).
I have been using Bosch purple grease for over 20 years now. It has great longevity; i only have to grease my engines every 15 - 20 years. It was developed for greasing the gears on Bosch power tools (impact hammers, etc), but is known to have been used on the tail rotor bearings on Ranger helicopters. Good stuff.
I have both Labelle 106 and Red N' Tacky in my shop. I prefer the Labelle product.
Is white lithium grease still acceptable or even preferred or hated by some?
Thanks,
Ed
White Lithium grease works, its just a much lighter grease than the RedN Tacky. Red N Tacky is "tacky" so it sticks to the gears better than white grease.
I squirt .5-1.0mL of Red N Tacky grease in my gearboxes when I first receive my locos.
I don't plan on adding more anytime soon, if ever. Fromhere on out I'll periodically grease exposed gears, and oil bushings and running gear.
I use aircraft landing gear grease.
modeltrainsparts posted:I have been using Bosch purple grease for over 20 years now. It has great longevity; i only have to grease my engines every 15 - 20 years. It was developed for greasing the gears on Bosch power tools (impact hammers, etc), but is known to have been used on the tail rotor bearings on Ranger helicopters. Good stuff.
Is this the product you use?
The product you referenced me to appears to be the same product by description and application. The product i have is 5 700 052 005 which has been discontinued and superceeded to 5 700 052 025 which Bosch claims to be beige in color. Mine is purple in color. I acquired 2 tubes of it in either the `80's or `90's, gave one to a friend and am still using the second one.
I noticed my engine has a screw at the bottom with Grease embossed in the casting.
Does one really need to take the boiler off or can you just add some thru this hole ?
I noticed grease seems to be coming out of the rear axle and looks clear ...
Where can we purchase "Red & Tacky"?
Harleylito posted:Where can we purchase "Red & Tacky"?
Anywhere that sells Lucas Oil products such as your local auto parts store.
Harleylito posted:Where can we purchase "Red & Tacky"?
It's easier to find when you look for "Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2"
It appears that R&T does not come in small squeeze tubes, meaning the grease screw wouldn't provide usable access
I have 2 MTH steam engines (PS2) - on both engines there are 2 screws with the word "grease" embossed in the metal - for years I've been placing grease in just these 2 areas - are you saying that the manual is showing other areas to grease (worm and bronze drive gear)?? Both my manuals do not indicate any other areas. If I have to grease the worm and bronze drive gear can anyone explain (or preferably show) where and how to get to these areas??
Paul
RJR posted:It appears that R&T does not come in small squeeze tubes, meaning the grease screw wouldn't provide usable access
I looked for it in tubes also, RJR - I can't find it
I use a medium syringe. I load up the R&T into it and then inject it in the screw access. Works fine. I think you can buy these at Home Depot or other stores. These are not medical but are commonly used for grease and other lubricants.
I think RJR was thinking of small 1-3 oz. squeezable tubes - now it's clear that the R&T has to be transferred into a syringe to apply - thanx, Marty!
Paul
The tubes will be grease gun sized(or in a tub) and there aren't too many automotive depts that DON'T carry R&T. I store open tubes capped and in large ziplock bags so the oil creep doesn't make a mess if knocked over. I won't be lubing vehicles anymore so my tube will last a lifetime. Lithium still works. I use LubriplateAero and blue water proof grease for boat trailers too(lucas, sunoco, or Mobile1...I forget ¿¿??¿?? (very similar to R&T thickness)
I too am confused. Can anyone show via pictures what needs to be done? I have put red n tacky on the gears next to the wheels - is their something else that needs to be taken off to get lubed?
Paul
Harleylito posted:I have 2 MTH steam engines (PS2) - on both engines there are 2 screws with the word "grease" embossed in the metal - for years I've been placing grease in just these 2 areas - are you saying that the manual is showing other areas to grease (worm and bronze drive gear)?? Both my manuals do not indicate any other areas. If I have to grease the worm and bronze drive gear can anyone explain (or preferably show) where and how to get to these areas??
Paul
The MTH steam engines have this phillips screw so you can just squirt some grease into the drive and worm gear. That's what you are lubricating when you remove that phillips screw and push some lube in there, usually with a syringe filled with your favorite lube. Each motor has one.
I use a small drop of Zoom oil (it has a very high vapor pressure, which means it evaporates very slowly) on those plastic side gears. I also lube the side rods with Zoom.
The MTH diesel engines (at least the ones I own) don't have the phillips screw for adding grease. So I drilled a small hole and tapped it for an allen plug on each motor so I could add grease like I do on the steamers. Otherwise, on the diesels, you have to remove the shell, unscrew the motor (from the bottom), separate it from the gear box to gain access to lube the drive and worm gears. I think the reason MTH doesn't provide a grease hole phillips for the diesels is it's such a close fit you don't have any room beneath the gearbox or you will scrape the middle rail, and inside the gearbox on diesels it's a very close fit. But a 1/16 depth allen screw fits flush. I do put some threadlocker on it because there isn't a lot of thread on a 1/16" allen screw.
You will get lots of different suggestions on grease and oil. My personal brew is 50% white grease, 50% Honda Moly 60 and a little added powdered graphite. Honda Moly 60 will not harm brass. I also add some powdered graphite to the Zoom oil. I use this mix for all my machinery and guns for the past 50 years. But everyone has their pet lubricants.
You didn't ask, but there are several "conductive" very thin oils out there that really improve how your pickup rollers work. They need to be lubed as well.
Waddy posted:Harleylito posted:I have 2 MTH steam engines (PS2) - on both engines there are 2 screws with the word "grease" embossed in the metal - for years I've been placing grease in just these 2 areas - are you saying that the manual is showing other areas to grease (worm and bronze drive gear)?? Both my manuals do not indicate any other areas. If I have to grease the worm and bronze drive gear can anyone explain (or preferably show) where and how to get to these areas??
Paul
The MTH steam engines have this phillips screw so you can just squirt some grease into the drive and worm gear. That's what you are lubricating when you remove that phillips screw and push some lube in there, usually with a syringe filled with your favorite lube. Each motor has one.
I use a small drop of Zoom oil (it has a very high vapor pressure, which means it evaporates very slowly) on those plastic side gears. I also lube the side rods with Zoom.
The MTH diesel engines (at least the ones I own) don't have the phillips screw for adding grease. So I drilled a small hole and tapped it for an allen plug on each motor so I could add grease like I do on the steamers. Otherwise, on the diesels, you have to remove the shell, unscrew the motor (from the bottom), separate it from the gear box to gain access to lube the drive and worm gears. I think the reason MTH doesn't provide a grease hole phillips for the diesels is it's such a close fit you don't have any room beneath the gearbox or you will scrape the middle rail, and inside the gearbox on diesels it's a very close fit. But a 1/16 depth allen screw fits flush. I do put some threadlocker on it because there isn't a lot of thread on a 1/16" allen screw.
You will get lots of different suggestions on grease and oil. My personal brew is 50% white grease, 50% Honda Moly 60 and a little added powdered graphite. Honda Moly 60 will not harm brass. I also add some powdered graphite to the Zoom oil. I use this mix for all my machinery and guns for the past 50 years. But everyone has their pet lubricants.
You didn't ask, but there are several "conductive" very thin oils out there that really improve how your pickup rollers work. They need to be lubed as well.
Thanx, Waddy - you provided great information - it sounded like some FM were greasing more than the two access areas on steam engines.
Paul
On the MTH 2/3 rail diesel trucks the grease port is not always reliable. I Grease my locomotives when I acquire them, I checked this one after a year of running, good thing MTH greased it at factory. This is one shot of Red and Tacky from a grease gun with pointed tip "it fit perfect". Not quite enough grease. You should take the bottom plate off at least once for inspection. The gear looks like no grease but actually is greased, I removed the axle with gear and coated it and the gear on the motor. after running I took it apart and it looked clean again with grease compartment full. Its just the nature of worm gears. If you had a sealed gear box a heavy oil would be better. The out side gears get just a single tiny dap of R&T it doesn't take much, that single dap of grease spreads to all of them. The shaft the gears ride on gets a drop of oil. While I have this opened up, I oil the axle bushings. .
Clem
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clem k posted:On the MTH 2/3 rail diesel trucks the grease port is not always reliable. I Grease my locomotives when I acquire them, I checked this one after a year of running, good thing MTH greased it at factory. This is one shot of Red and Tacky from a grease gun with pointed tip "it fit perfect". Not quite enough grease. You should take the bottom plate off at least once for inspection. The gear looks like no grease but actually is greased, I removed the axle with gear and coated it and the gear on the motor. after running I took it apart and it looked clean again with grease compartment full. Its just the nature of worm gears. If you had a sealed gear box a heavy oil would be better. The out side gears get just a single tiny dap of R&T it doesn't take much, that single dap of grease spreads to all of them. The shaft the gears ride on gets a drop of oil. While I have this opened up, I oil the axle bushings. .
Clem
Clem - thanx for the pictures - where did you buy your "grease gun"?
Paul
I believe it was distributed by Lucas Products. Home Depot.
Clem
Thanx so much for the picture Clem! I never took the bottom plate off of my diesels - today I did and discovered the grease wasn't filling up the grease compartment fully! Based on what you said previously I'm going to fill the compartment while the plate is off and use the Red & Tacky stuff. Again, you helped me a great deal on this - thanx!
Paul
I stopped by a local Advance auto parts. Saw the can was not marked R&T #2; just R&T. Also a large tube for a grease gun. Didn't get any. Too much
RJR posted:I stopped by a local Advance auto parts. Saw the can was not marked R&T #2; just R&T. Also a large tube for a grease gun. Didn't get any. Too much
One tube will last a lifetime.
You are correct, but that's the problem. My executor already faces an enormous task between my trains, my tool accumulation, and a 46-year old boat.
Today I took the plate off of the area where grease is applied to my SD70. In doing so I was able to fill the grease reservoir completely with R & T. Over the years I've been injecting white lithium into the grease holes after removing the 4 "grease" screws - to my surprise after removing the plate I saw that the lithium grease never went completely into the reservoirs - thus, the worm gear & drive gear wasn't being lubricated. I don't want to remove the plate every time the engine needs lube - I'd rather apply the grease through the grease ports - I went to HD and Lowes to buy a "syringe" to inject the grease but they didn't stock them. Can someone show me what type of syringe they use to inject Red and Tacky grease??
Paul
PS: OK - I found the syringe and it works great!
Harley, you now raise a good question for discussion: How often does a loco worm gear need lube. The old postwar Lionel worm gear locos had to be thoroughly cleaned out every decade or so because the greases of that era dried and hardened. Auto wheel bearings had to be cleaned out and repacked every 10,000 miles or so because the grease broke down.
Today, bearings are sealed for life, and go,literally hundreds of thousands of miles. Gear lubricants get changed, at a minimum under severe conditions, every 50,000 miles or so. Unless one sees grease outside of a loco worm gear case, it's not going anywhere. Why would someone feel that a loco, using red & tacky, and running few miles,has to be greased more often than, says once a decade? (Note I am not talking about uncased gears.)
RJR posted:Harley, you now raise a good question for discussion: How often does a loco worm gear need lube. The old postwar Lionel worm gear locos had to be thoroughly cleaned out every decade or so because the greases of that era dried and hardened. Auto wheel bearings had to be cleaned out and repacked every 10,000 miles or so because the grease broke down.
Today, bearings are sealed for life, and go,literally hundreds of thousands of miles. Gear lubricants get changed, at a minimum under severe conditions, every 50,000 miles or so. Unless one sees grease outside of a loco worm gear case, it's not going anywhere. Why would someone feel that a loco, using red & tacky, and running few miles,has to be greased more often than, says once a decade? (Note I am not talking about uncased gears.)
RJR - My main concern was that when I removed the cover plate the grease never reached the reservoir - I know that was my mistake as I hadn't injected sufficient amounts of grease into the port - and the reason I didn't was because the lithium grease I was using started to back up out of the port (blockage) - therefore, I thought it was filled but it wasn't. I totally agree with you that after filling the reservoir with R&T it would seem that it would be enough for a few years at least. In addition, I was using small tubes (1-3 oz) of lithium grease and squeezing it into the port - I thought the syringe did a much better job in getting the grease to the reservoir and thus to the gears.
Paul
Be careful and the best way is to get grease on the teeth of both gears (worm and drive gear), with some extra in reservoir. You do not want to "pack" it. Too much grease, especially a heavy one will add drag to drive train. Very light grease will seep out everywhere. Also, make sure it does not back up into the motor vents at the bottom near the worm gear. You do not want grease in the motor. G
HARLEY,
I used a syringe from Tractor Supply. It is in the animal health care section. O cut off the tip and filled with R&T works good. Make sure you get the widest needles. It is a little tough to push but it does get just enough to lube the gears. Hope this helps.
I have a small grease gun with a needle tip apllicator I bought at fleet farm but the can be found on amazon as well
Thanx to everyone for your input - I found the syringe for grease and it works great (much better than the small plastic tubes!
Paul
Paul, would you please identify what you got and where you got it? All I have found are grease guns, which I hate to have lying around because they take space and usually leak.
