Gun shy on newly repaired engines!

Just for curiosity, what type of transformer are you using?

If you don't want to run them, what's the point of having them?  Stuff breaks, and modern stuff with lots of moving parts and tons of electronics tends to break more often.

I must be really lucky. I run conventional, Williams MTH from 99 to present Lionel and Atlas O and have one out of 80 or more engines that is dead. I hope your luck gets better and mine continues.

Lots of things go haywire. Gremlins seem to have established a colony in my laptop. A group of them emigrated from my cars, apparently. I am constantly repairing something around the house, or calling a repairman to do it. Don't get me started on our washing machine shenanigans lately. I just get the stuff fixed, and let 'er rip. It's just the nature of machines. Don't let it intimidate you.  

Once repaired I would think they are go to go for many years. The factory gremlins should be gone since replaced. I would check the track making sure there are no large dips or elevations caused by the carpet. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you don't want to run them, what's the point of having them?  Stuff breaks, and modern stuff with lots of moving parts and tons of electronics tends to break more often.

I Agree with John.  Personally I work mine very hard and then some.   But I do take regular service  very seriously.  I had a side rod fail on a lionel legacy 2-10-4 pulling an 85 car(A lot of diecast) coal drag running about 50 scale mph.   It was unfortunate.  But didn't bother me in the slightest.  Pretty tough conditions.  These modern engines from both manufactures are very durable mechanically.  Electrically speaking things just kind of are what they are.   As long as you have "proper" circuit protection  which personally I think gets over looked often.  Not a lot more you can do.   My advice run your engines.  Personally I test them while their under warranty!  If you not comfortable send them to me and I'll enjoy them for you.   Shoot I'll send ya videos of how awesome they are!   Just kidding but I really would lol.   Again, run them, Enjoy them.  That's what they're made for!      Also if you fear you might be or your power control setup could be causing a problem somehow, invite someone who might be more fluent on how everything should be connected and working to take a look at it.  If you don't have anyone local share the details of your setup with us and we can critique it for you.   Happy Holidays!

You’ll have to simply find a way to overcome your anxiety. Why get ‘em fixed if you’re not going to use them?

I'm involved with vintage computing and a buddy once said "I have [rare computer], but I won't try to boot it up because until I do, I know it fully has the possibility of being completely functional."

In other words, the potential of having a fully functional rarity is worth more to him than the disappointment of learning/knowing he has something with irreparable issues.

Having run my digital-controlled layout since 2009, I have formed opinions about electronic controls. These are a few of them:

1. Electronics in our trains are not rugged enough designs, so failure rates are too high;

2. The cost of replacement electronics are too high;

3. Electronic repairs done by non-factory certified technicians are more reliable than factory repairs because they have a better understanding of operating issues and failure modes. In other words, the non-factory techs are much more in contact and empathetic with hobbyists;

4. Non-factory techs will repair / improve electronic boards when feasible;

5. Non-factory techs give a better value for the repair bucks than you get from factory repair services.

Thanks for the input and I agree, you either use it or loose it.  I don't have anyone in the area that I know that is using the same set up as I created. Most are running conventionally and don't understand WiFi or tandem control systems.  The Challenger failed using a new Lionel brick for power and a Lionel Lock-on with protection.  There were not any shorts in the system when it went.  Reading the Challenger Posts others have experienced the same problem. One idea I had was that the Challenger is very heavy and my be putting stress on the track pins over carpet.  I reinforced one 072 corner with fiber board to see if that helped.  The key to my question is that in building an extended control system you have to figure it out for yourself.  Not many reference books cover it and I always question what I may be missing.  I took an Amtrak trip to Seattle and the conductor talked about the derailing of cars on horseshoe pass.  I laughed because it was a loading issue and I had just accidentally duplicated it on my track by adding one extra heavy car at the end of a long string. You just have to learn by doing. Another idea is I am running a new cleaner car that has a Brillo pad suspended under the carriage of a box car.  I wonder if there is any connectivity between the rails across the cleaning pad as it gets contaminated with grease and dirt. Not enough to create a large short but enough to effect electronics.

One suggestion would be to set up a simple short test track (and possibly some rollers, if you liked) and a smaller new or known good transformer and run the engines in conventional mode and see how they perform.

Using the test track eliminates the issue of whether anything on your layout is causing the problems. If it runs ok on the test track and then zonks out on your layout, then you have your answer.

It's a tough situation. All those bells and whistles come at a premium price and repairing them is expensive also. If you want something nice yet reliable your best option would be to forgo a lot of those fancy electronics. I have had PS boards fail and ended up replacing them with conventional reverse boards and basic horn/bell boards. The sounds were better with the PS installed but it just wasn't worth it to me to put money into stuff that tends to fail more often. The sounds get to be too much after a while anyhow, so I don't really feel I've lost much. At some point those boards and other parts won't even be available anymore. Then what? Just gotta roll with it and have fun while they work.

Carpet layouts pick up  lots of fibers.  Brillo pad is made of metal fibers and will screw up everything. Use a tight nylon pad. 

Definitely stay away from brillo / steel wool for cleaning track. I use this with a cloth and have had very good results keeping track clean. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the use of brillo is the cause here. If I were you, I'd inspect every inch of track on the layout  for metal fibers left behind from your track cleaning car. Whether you are running modern electronics or prewar or postwar conventional, the small metal fibers left behind from brillo or steel wool can be troublesome if not lethal to toy trains.  

As for being gun-shy about running the trains, that's understandable considering what has happened. I'm relatively new to the modern electronics as well, and part of running these trains is accepting the fact that there is more that can go wrong, and when it does, it can be expensive to fix. However, taking steps to prevent things from happening can significantly reduce your risk.

John 

Have seen other posts here that the fibers from metal pads are not good.

And I would not use CRC unless it is the electronic version.

Thanks guys,  I may have led you astray on the Brillo Pad.  It is really a plastic synthetic pad that is abrasive but not metal.  I think a real Brillo pad would destroy the layout in no time. I will however check out the cleaning chemicals you are suggesting.  Keeping the track clean is a constant task.  My outer track is my test track as it is powered by a new Lionel Legacy Brick and is protected with a Lionel Lock on Box.  The other two tracks are using variable power through the MTH WIU/TIU System.  I live in Orange County adjacent to LA.  There must be another expert using this hybrid control system in the area.  I know I was an early adopter and spoke to Mike at MTH about getting the bugs out of the system to control both Lionel Legacy and MTH Premier on the same track and six months later they fixed all the items we discussed.  At one point I was running the three loops with two  trains each and running dual engines on each train.  It was exciting but exhausting to keep tabs on all the consists.  I am now running one dual engine consist per track loop.  Much easier to track.. I will keep you posted as my system testing continues. Two of the MTH engine failures were know problems and solved.  Two of the Lionel failures have happened to other user.  I may be chasing a phantom gremlin. Time will tell!  In the mean time I am setting up my Christmas  train tomorrow!

Seems to me with wireless sound . leave the electronics out if the engine. 

And RC control. Speed etc.  Have a switch to lock it out if you want to run standard power. Transformer.

If my mth engines quit I'll by pass the electronics.

"Scotch brite"; steel wool is the enemy of gears, bushings, and magnetic parts. An engine is a rolling electromagnet.

Likely just bad luck on the electronics.

Carpet static is a remote possibility. 

Add a few tvs and run the anxiety out of um 

Yeah its unfortunate when things stop working. I have especial trouble with the tether hook ups on MTH engines. They’re just to finicky.  They always seem to fail in the far reaches of the layout. Sound boards on both MTH and Lionel seem to fail often. 

Just run them till they die. I’ve had no luck with any of the local repair shops and I’m not too handy with electronic repairs. Mechanically all the modern engines seem pretty solid - its the electronics and associated pieces that have supplied me with $1,000’s of boat anchors. Of 60 locomotives there are 5 with tether issues, and 4 with sound issues and the rest are likely on their way to becoming additional boat anchors.

Nobody said this hobby is cheap.

I'm hedging my bets and holding on to my conventional engines.  Fleet is about 70% electronic & 30% Pullmor, etc.

What's really frustrating is when they ran fine the day or week before. Then during the off time, gremlins do their mischievous work to destroy something. I've had my Vision BB coal depletion stop working. Light dim or quit working when smoke unit on. Re-set engines when switching forward to backwards, features suddenly gone, etc.

But I still enjoy running them. I do wish that more durable boards which can also be replaced easily by consumers would go a long way in enjoyment. Good Trustworthy Techs are getting harder and harder to find. 

trestleking posted:

I'm hedging my bets and holding on to my conventional engines.  Fleet is about 70% electronic & 30% Pullmor, etc.

Yup, I have three Lionel PWC NW2s with Pullmor F3/GP7 motors and enough spare parts to keep them going a couple lifetimes. Gonna' keep them just in case. I really like my MTH PS3 DCS SW1500s for scale appearance, speed control and sound but if I get too old&stupid to keep the fancy electronics going those Lionel engines are right there in the drawer.

All I can say is  Locomotives  have become so incredibly sophisticated, you have an increased chance for problems.These locomotives are not toys. They are very sensitive. I went through the same thing you have been through. "magic cab smoke" etc etc. However I have learned how to deal with it. If it gets over my head I know the right people to "go to" and there are amazing techs on this forum. I will say it one more time-this will bring out the "miserable little stubborn people" MODERN EQUIPMENT- MODERN POWER. Write that down. Nick

trestleking posted:

I'm hedging my bets and holding on to my conventional engines.  Fleet is about 70% electronic & 30% Pullmor, etc.

trestleking, my stats are the reverse of yours-70% Pullmor and 30% high tech modern.   Something is always goin' down on my high tech engines and it is very frustrating.  It seems like every time I have a problem with the newer modern engines and post for assistance on the forum inevitably I get the "Better send it to a tech" response.   Then, when I do the turn around time is super long because of the amount of back log these guys have.  Post-war is the exact opposite.  Almost all of the repair work  I can perform myself and when I can't the repair turn around time is almost immediate.  I'm hanging on to my Lionel pre-war and post-war engines because they are saviors.  They will be with me until the end.   

rockstars1989 posted:

I will say it one more time-this will bring out the "miserable little stubborn people" MODERN EQUIPMENT- MODERN POWER.

"Miserable little stubborn people" are the ones who take opinions (even well meaning or well  thought out ones) and present them as better than facts.

bmoran4 posted:

rockstars1989 posted:

I will say it one more time-this will bring out the "miserable little stubborn people" MODERN EQUIPMENT- MODERN POWER.

"Miserable little stubborn people" are the ones who take opinions (even well meaning or well  thought out ones) and present them as better than facts.

Point taken. Thank you Nick

Just want to add my 2 cents. We had a 0 27 AA diesel  that would not run right. My 5 year old grandson and I took it to our favorite train shop. He took it in the back and came out and asked if my grandson could read. On the engine was a note CLEAN THE BLANKETY WHEELS  . Feeling foolish I bought a yankee box car for the boy and quietly slinked out the door. Sometimes it’s the simple things. Merry Christmas. Tstark