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When railroad career people who participate on this forum relate stories from their past, it is my personal favorite sort of post.  Those of us who read those posts all recognize that we are acquainted with some fine story tellers and a wealth of information.   My railroad days were very brief and I don't have a lot of words to offer, but I have managed to write down a few things that might be amusing.  At the very least, they might give insights to younger readers who will never get to witness how railroading used to be.  I doubt if my posts generate much discussion.  This is this just to pass along a scene that once happened:
 
Passing signals by lantern vs. by radio

On the Frisco Chickasha and Oklahoma subs they always passed signals by hand or lantern, both in the yard and on the road.  By 1981 the crewmen on all jobs out of OKC were issued radioes but they were not frequently used.  The times crews did rely on radios were situations like: a blinding rain storm was occuring, or backing a long train around a curve and over a crossing, etc. 
Passing signals always worked, but radioes sometimes did not. This brings to mind an instance of when a road switcher's locomotive radio suddenly began acting as if the handset where 'keyed' effectively jambing all radio communications in the area. During their trip the crew could not identify the problem.  After a night of switching they were returning to OKC and yarding their train...as they slowly pulled into the yard letting the freight clerk jot down reporting marks, our heroic yardmaster swung up and entered the cab, unscrewed the antenna cable from the back of the naughty radio, then left the cab and climbed back down without uttering one word. (yes, he was an inspiration for commentary on the walls of the washroom stalls).  During this same trip the crew was experiencing trouble seeing hand signals with the rising sun blazing in the line-of-sight.  The solution to that temporary problem was to pass signals with a lit fusee. (their solution...I doubt there was any rule backing this action)  Radio or not, the train got all its work done that night. 
    After happily passing signals with many railroad men, young and old, the next lesson to be learned was that certain crews had their own way of doing things.
When I filled vacancies on the QA&P subdivision, I soon learned that those crewmen had become accustomed to calling all signals via radio. They did a lot of switching in the yard and around town. But I had to learn about their exclusive radio usage the hard way...
 The first night I reported to the QA&P Quanah switcher (which always operated at night) I was riding the footboard to bring the locomotive to a joint on the mainline. While I gave the indications by lantern for "two cars...one car..." I noticed the locomotive was not slowing down. It quickly became appearent that I better jump off, and at the same time 'wash him out'. As I did, I grabbed my radio and said "THAT'LL DO!!", and we made one of those joints that knocks the dust off every car involved. The yard foreman was nearby watching this scene unfold. He came over to me and, with a slight grin, said, "knock his a** off that seatbox, and he may turn his head to look at you next time". Those were his exact words.
Yet, it was then I realized I didn't have any business having these old heads come around to a different way of doing things. "When you're in Rome you do as the Romans".  Actually, they had passed ten thousand signals all their younger lives, had once run symbol freights like QLA, QSF, CTB, etc. and anything they did in their twilight years was not to be questioned by me. From that time forward I carried my lantern high on my arm so I could hold a grabiron with one hand and hold a radio with the other hand to call signals.

I miss those days, and this is an experience I replay in my mind often.

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Good story, Rob.  Thanks for posting it and starting the thread.  Hopefully, other veteran railroaders will post.

Speaking of passing signals by lighted fusee, Santa Fe provided 10-minute yellow fusees for just that purpose.  The Engineer could see them easily from a distance of 50 or 60 cars.  They were useful when the wind was blowing dust.  (Can you tell I'm from the west?)  And they were especially helpful when switching in fog.  On the Los Angeles Division, we had to contend with nightly fog in the spring and again in the fall.  Nowadays, with so many more houses where there used to be orange groves, the roofs radiate a larger blanket of warm air and the fog is not as prevalent as it once was.

Southern California fog can be very thick -- much more so than Midwesterners have ever experienced.  I took an assignment on the night Corona Road Switcher for a couple of months, long before there were many hand-held radios.  The job switched out all the setouts from the day and the cars brought in by the Corona-Elsinore Local.  After that work was done, the crew tied onto the local industry cars and shoved down the main line and up the Corona industry spur.  Fog was often too thick to see even a lighted fusee more than 2 cars ahead of the engine, so the crew used police whistles.  I kept my window open and listened for:

  • 2 Long -- shove ahead at 10 MPH
  • 2 Short -- shove ahead at 2 MPH
  • 3 Long -- Back up at 10 MPH
  • 3 Short -- Back up at 2 MPH
  • 1 Long -- Stop
  • 1 Extra Long -- Give pin slack (so the Brakeman could uncouple the car).

I don't want to monopolize this thread, but I just remembered a good story about hand signals.  I'll go into read-only mode after this one. 

West Coast Hand Signals vs. East Coast Hand Signals

This occurred in 1973, when I was forced-assigned to the Los Angeles Engineers' Extra Board and caught an afternoon Fullerton Road Switcher.  Our engine was an Alco-GE S4 switcher.  Right after going on duty, we took the engine and waycar two miles west to the Basta storage tracks, where we coupled onto 6 mechanical reefers loaded with tomatoes and fruit that the daylight job had switched out for Hunt Foods, the tomato sauce and canned peaches people.

The Conductor and one Brakeman were regular on the job and each had years of service.  The other Brakeman was making his first paid trip, having just been hired as an experienced Brakeman off the Chesapeake & Ohio in Virginia.  As an experienced Brakeman, he did not have to make student trips before marking up on a Road Switcher. I talked with him on the way out to Basta and learned that he had five years of C&O service.  I asked if he knew west coast hand signals, and he assured me that he did.

Eastern hand signals were the same as lantern signals -- arm moved vertically for proceed forward, moved in a circle for back up, and swung perpendicular to the track for stop.  Western railroaders used different hand signals: arms and hands at chest level, hands waved outward from center mean move away from me; hand moved in a circle means move toward me; arm held horizontal, perpendicular to track means reduce speed; and arm dropped from horizontal to side means stop.

Well, we had the cars coupled to the cab end of the engine, and the crew had bled off the air on the cars, as they intended to switch them into the two parallel Hunt tracks without using the car air brakes, the way it was done every day, safely.  The engine was on the west end, so I would be shoving the cars to the dock.  From the main line, the Hunt spur curved off to my side, in a reverse curve.  Since the second curve was to the right, I would not have been able to see the Conductor, riding the side of the leading car and giving hand signals, so one Brakeman rode on the roof of the third car, and the other Brakeman -- the new, experienced man -- rode the rear step of the engine.  

We started down in, and all was going well.  As the engine approached the reverse curve, the Conductor wanted to reduce the speed and gave an "easy" sign, with his arm extended outward.  The Brakeman on the roof of the third car did likewise, and I applied a light engine brake to stretch the slack and slow down.  However, just as I moved the brake valve, I heard a clank and saw that the Brakeman on the engine had uncoupled the cars.  "Hey," I shouted, "What're you doing?"  "He gave me a pin sign," said the Brakeman.  I told him that it was not a pin sign, but an easy sign.  By then, the cars were picking up speed and heading into a stub track at Hunts.  I tried to couple on, but the curve had changed the alignment of the couplers and they would not have mated, so I sounded the whistle, and the Brakeman on the roof, by now waving violent stop signs, immediately knew what was going on.  He made a graceful dive into some soft weeds, and, around the corner, the Conductor jumped off onto the dock and warned the dock workers.  Just then, a warehouse tow motor exited the warehouse and started across the track with three trailers loaded with Hunts canned goods.  I stopped the engine and we watched as the cars wiped out the trailers and continued on, over the bumping post, through the fence, and into the employee parking lot, wrecking several automobiles.  I eased in and picked up the Brakeman who had joined the birds, and we eased down to the dock.  There were a lot of very excited people there, and the Conductor had words with the new man.  Fortunately, nobody was hurt.

I never saw that Brakeman from the C&O again.

Last edited by Number 90
Number 90 posted:

The other Brakeman was making his first paid trip, having just been hired as an experienced Brakeman off the Chesapeake & Ohio in Virginia.  As an experienced Brakeman, he did not have to make student trips before marking up on a Road Switcher.

Great story (but not for Hunt's) !!

The policy of 'no student trips for experienced people' may have been common but not always beneficial.   My opinion is that it would be helpful to a new hire to go out and work on a lot of different jobs with a lot of different people.  That type of training is what I received for about 3 weeks in addition to old Frisco training films, books, manuals and pamphlets. (and dominoes twice a shift)

In both our stories the problem stemmed from someone working with a certain crew for the first time, and being unfamiliar with their method of work.

When I volunteered at the RR Museum of New England, the usual routine involved a run-around maneuver (with passengers still onboard the cars) at one end of each run. I understood that the crews seemed to like my hand signaling, since I was the only one of their brakemen who actually issued a "Reduce Speed" signal as the locomotive neared the standing cars (say about 20' or so) and then a "Stop" timed to make the joint as gently as possible.

Most other brakemen kept repeating the "approach" signal and then a "Stop" at the last second, giving the passengers a substantial bump. With these folks some engineers would ease up on their own as the coaches' coupler passed from view in order to make the eventual coupling less-jarring.

---PCJ

Working a job out of Worcester we ran a short ten miles to switch out a processing plant. Just as I get out to protect the shove off the main the heavens opened up with a deluge. No rain jacket or anything in sight. I got soaked and my radio got soaked rendering the microphone inoperable.

I immediately stretched out my hand using my hard hat to indicate car lengths. Something I was taught in California for just this type of situation. Engineer starts laughing on the radio ( I could receive, not transmit) and said to the other conductor  " didn't think the new guy (FNG) would be smart enough to improvise with hand signals".

That same day we broke a knuckle switching in the yard and without saying a word I went out and replaced it with the one off the front of the engine. They gave me a lot less crap after showing them I had some intelligence and knowledge.

Paul

Big Jim posted:

What used to get me was the brakeman/conductor riding the end of the locomotive and talking you back on the radio. Gee whiz, cut the chatter on the radio and give a hand signal!!!

Unfortunately more and more the way of life these days. Light engine move and the radio and trainman don't even know what the hand signals are.

I was riding the point of a 4 engine consist, shoving into a track to pick up one loaded double stack at the far end of the track. The move started on a curve and I started him back via radio, said good for 30 cars, I'll get ya on the hand once you're on straight track. He acknowledged.

We're shoving down the straight track and we are MOVIN! I gave him the easy sign....nothing. I started giving him car counts and still nothing. I yell on the radio "PLUG IT" and bailed off the engines. My feet were going so fast when they hit the ground I felt like Fred Flintstone. I slammed into the cars in the track next to us, probably a good thing or else I would still be running today as I couldn't stop. The engines slammed into that single loaded car, the containers popped up three feet in the air, and the four engines and single car slid underneath Mt Vernon bridge.

I was laughing so hard I couldn't stand up straight. The engineer ran down because he thought I was hurt. Luckily I wasn't. We hit that car so hard the entire end of the car bent downwards and the coupler height was off about four inches. He recovered the air, we pulled out of the track and shoved it all in the clear at the east end and tied it down. That was supposed to be our last move anyway.

The next day the trainmaster asked me about the broken side windows in the cab. I had no clue what he was talking about. Apparently we hit so hard, the open cab windows slid forward and shattered within their frames. The engineer never said a thing to me, and he was off the extra board so I didn't see him for awhile. Later he told me he was on his phone, waiting to hear me on the radio and forgot we were going to hand signs light engines. We hit that car at 18 mph. No wonder my feet felt like Fred Flintstone. That engineer was later terminated, twice, for various reasons, and has not returned again.  

If the brand new TV you bought doesn't work..... well.  

Last edited by Laidoffsick
Laidoffsick posted:
Big Jim posted:

What used to get me was the brakeman/conductor riding the end of the locomotive and talking you back on the radio. Gee whiz, cut the chatter on the radio and give a hand signal!!!

Later he told me he was on his phone, waiting to hear me on the radio and forgot we were going to hand signs light engines.

 

And that is why phones are banned!!!

One thing about passing signals, If you are going to use hand signals, stay on hand signals. If you are going to use the radio, stay on the radio. I remember a few guys I worked with that would start you back to a joint on the radio, but you still had to watch them in the mirror, because they would almost start  with "three cars", then "two", then expect you to be watching, because they would give you the last signal, then a half, and then a stop, by hand. If I have to do the whole thing in the mirror anyway, why not use hand signals to start with ? Sometimes, just to make a point, I would ignore the last hand signals as if I was waiting for more radio instructions, and stop half the length of the last transmission I heard, which is required by the rules anyway. 

One time I was trying to make a joint with 8 units. A you know, the bigger the consist, the fuzzier and slower, and sloppier the independent brake becomes. I had a "new- to-us" brakeman who had been hired on the Santa Fe when the Rock Island shut down, and I had never worked with him before. We left the round house at Newton, and backed out to Sand Creek where out train was hanging out almost to the yard office. This guy was on lantern signals, and he started me out with a five cars signal, which I thought was odd, because all the guys always started out with three. Right after that, I get one car, then a washout, followed by a 6-7 mph joint on out train. When the dust settled, he came back to the cab, and we talked about it. Turns out, what I thought was five car lengths, was actually three, followed closely by two, which looked like five to me, then a one, which was just too short to do much slowing down with 8 units. If he'd given me an "easy", then three cars like everybody else, it would have been fine.

 

 

There's also a big difference in "old head" car lengths and "new hire" car lengths. Some just suck at car lengths period, especially if you have nothing next to you to reference distance. What surprises me the most is that engineers working the ground now, give some of the worst car lengths out there. They of all people should know what it's like to receive crappy car counts.

Last edited by Laidoffsick

"Thank you" for the commentary that is occurring on this topic.  I hope that others get as much enjoyment from it as I do.

Still on the subject of hand signaling; when a young extra board brakeman settles in and starts to feel a little comfort on the job, he better be watching for an oncoming curveball. 

The OKC board had a west-end job that most everyone detested, the Fletcher turn.  It did 12 hours worth of switching through the night at Chickasha, Cyril, and Fletcher, OK.  Pool crew members would frequently lay off it, and savvy extra board men would pass on it, too.   Therefore, I caught the job constantly.  (I might add here that certain conductors on road switchers going all the way to Quanah would set out their short cars "in order to make the next hill" because the good ole Fletcher turn could clean up behind them).   Cyril featured several yard tracks, long oil racks for loading and unloading, spots for bentonite, and an ethyl spur.  To spot ethyl cars you had to head into the rip track, and if it was full it had to be pulled and the cars set out of the way - then head into the rip again with your load in order to back into the ethyl spur.   So...we are in Cyril with the locomotives on the main, and I am waiting for a sign for the next move (an experienced man would know what's coming next).  The conductor raises his leg high enough to touch his heel, and I am wondering what that is supposed to signify?  I am shamefully forced to break radio silence, "I don't know what that one means (gulp)".

"SPUR track" $#(@!!

Of course.

Last edited by Rob Leese
Laidoffsick posted:

There's also a big difference in "old head" car lengths and "new hire" car lengths. Some just suck at car lengths period, especially if you have nothing next to you to reference distance. What surprises me the most is that engineers working the ground now, give some of the worst car lengths out there. They of all people should know what it's like to receive crappy car counts.

Ah yes, the infamous "ten more... 3-2-1-that'll do!"

 

Working the Harrisburg/Enola, PA terminal in '99, there weren't a lot of yard channels assigned- so you used hand signals as much as possible.  When using the radio, I almost always got "walked on" just as I was about to give a "that'll do".  When I went to Conway, it was another world- quite a few yard channels, and LONG cuts with long shoves on the pullout jobs, so the radio was used more there.  Even so, we still used hand signals when practical.  

It was always fun to watch a student on the rear of a switcher, with a pane of glass between him and the engineer, giving car counts on the radio!

  The conductor raises his leg high enough to touch his heel, and I am wondering what that is supposed to signify?  I am shamefully forced to break radio silence, "I don't know what that one means (gulp)".

Number 7 track here...

Some others not found in the rule book

Number 6. was right hand  above the head with the thumb pointing up.

Number 5 ..  again hand above the head with  5 fingers showing.

Arms crossed meant " line the crossovers" or if on the road sections crews would cross their arms  wanting  to know where you were going to meeting an opposing train.  (ex 2 sidings away)

Shaking your fist was a kick sign for the engineman

Making 2 circles  around each other was with each hand was a sign for a running switch, aka a drop or little flip.

Right hand touching left elbow.. main line

and my favourite,   the yard forum patting his stomach  .. lunch break 

Last edited by Gregg

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