Have you guys ever been to a train show and things got heated between a customer and a vendor?

Only when I was a kid.  An old grump tried to rip me off, till Gramps showed up and "asked him nicely" for his money back.

If my Gramps "asked nice" it was sarcasm that couldn't be missed. Or shouldn't have been if you had sense.

My last train show for almost forty years.

Adriatic posted:

Only when I was a kid.  An old grump tried to rip me off, till Gramps showed up and "asked him nicely" for his money back.

If my Gramps "asked nice" it was sarcasm that couldn't be missed. Or shouldn't have been if you had sense.

My last train show for almost forty years.

I bet you got your money back.Which is good.

Some shows just bring out the "vulture carp" buyers. There is one particular person that always appears at our local shows. I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. 

He will hover and hound the seller for a deal and become extremely irate if the seller does not drop his price.

If he does swaggle a deal he will immediately race home and put it on the bay for 3 or 5 times the price... (just look for the pink ruler)

A real low life... and detracts from the hobby.. 

A private one with an old fart seller at York. He had something I had been looking for but when I picked it up he went into hyper tension. He had no do not touch signs and I told him I won't buy what I can't look at. His reply was you can look but do not touch. I walked away. April York it was still on his table.

April York it was still on his table.

Did you find another?

Many years ago at a Greenberg show with a dealer named Mel Price, may God rest his soul, who insisted a bum engine we were returning was not his. My friend had purchased the item a week before at another show. If anybody knew this guy you know he get quit loud and nasty. Fortunately and wisely �� he maintained his cool and they worked it out ...

Another Greenberg show years ago:  A prospective customer was flipping tags over to see the prices when the seller suddenly went off on him with some of the filthiest language I've ever heard (and I'm an old Sailor with a terminal case of sailor mouth myself). The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left. On my second pass through the hall, the seller had packed and left.

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

I've gotten into it with sellers twice. Both times while showing a newbie the ropes sellers overheard what I was telling them and didn't like it.  You know the type - the ones at every show selling PS1 and MPC era stuff at the same prices as 20 years ago.

Of course, it was a dumb move on their part as instead of just the person I was with hearing, everyone in a 30 foot radius heard.

-Greg

Never really had a problem with a vendor but when I was selling some engines on the ogr board around 6 years ago.

The buyer of one of the engines was very happy with the engine and the deal. Now forward about 5 years.

I received an email from the guy who bought the engine and wanted to return the engine to me. He told me he was tired of the engine and wanted me to refund what he paid. Of course I said no. I then got a obscene email accusing me of being a thief and many other names. 

I told him I don't lease model engines. You bought it, now you own it. You had it for 5 years! 

I then blocked him. Talk about balls. 

I never had a problem at a train show other then somebody giving me too low of a price on something and I told them NO Sale.

I have had more problems with selling things on the forum for sale list then at train shows. So I quit listing stuff for sale on here, "end of story."

Lee Fritz

artyoung posted:

The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left.

I hate to say it, but I would like to have seen that.

Steven J. Serenska

david1 posted:

Never really had a problem with a vendor but when I was selling some engines on the ogr board around 6 years ago.

The buyer of one of the engines was very happy with the engine and the deal. Now forward about 5 years.

I received an email from the guy who bought the engine and wanted to return the engine to me. He told me he was tired of the engine and wanted me to refund what he paid. Of course I said no. I then got a obscene email accusing me of being a thief and many other names. 

I told him I don't lease model engines. You bought it, now you own it. You had it for 5 years! 

I then blocked him. Talk about balls. 

 

Amazing!! I like your lease comment. Lol. 

It's not really "getting into it", but one of my pet peeves is, after I politely say no to some seller's asking price, he immediately goes into hard-sell mode and/or starts questioning whether my expectations are realistic.

As an example, I purchased a postwar 415 Lionel Diesel Fueling station on an auction site 1-2 years ago for $47 plus, approx $13 for shipping. All in, I got it for around $60.

I was at a NETCA show a short while later and a guy had one on his table.  Because I am still an interested observer of the market, I flipped over his tag and saw he wanted $125.  I didn't say anything and continued to look at his other items.  He was staring at me like a hawk and said, "I can work with you on that fueling station."  I replied, "Sorry, no thanks.  It's ok."

He persisted with a trace of aggression, and said, "Well? Make me an offer."  I went with my standard second round of polite responses and said, "I'm sorry, that's a little over my budget for today."  I usually take this tack because many sellers will understand that it's nobody's business how much money I have to spend on trains.

Not this guy.  He said, "What's your budget?"  I said, "Sorry, I'm just not interested."  He then went into complete hard-sell mode and told me I wasn't going to find another one at the show, he hasn't seen one that nice for years, the rubber hose was still pliable and they often aren't, all the window inserts are there, it's got the box and instructions, George Washington slept in it, etc., etc., etc.

I didn't say anything else and just walked on to the next table, whereupon he said to no one in particular, but nice and loud, "And this guy just walks away?" He said it like I had been wasting *his* time.  I could hear him the rest of the way down the aisle with other assorted blather I didn't feel like responding to.

I can be a bad, snappish New Yorker and, believe me, it was all I could do to not say "I'm not interested because I just bought one for half your asking price, you moron.  Sheesh, take a hint." But this guy just wasn't worth the effort.

So it goes.  I find it helps to keep a quote often attributed to George Bernard Shaw in the back of my mind about why it's not a good idea to wrestle with a pig.

Steven J. Serenska

I recall one time years ago I went to a local show and saw an item I was interested in.  This particular item happened to be an uncatalogued item that ended up being produced in comparably low numbers once it was made, though that was not probably obvious to the hobby until it became "hot" and people were clamoring over it.

I saw this item on a vendor's table with what would have been a "normal" price for such an item of a similar rolling stock type.

When I expressed my interest, he claimed that that couldn't possibly be the right price for the piece and told me that "kids must have switched his price tags around". 

Now, these were not price tags that are simple to remove, like a post it that many sellers sometimes use at meets/shows to price their items.  This was a small label that would have at the least required some picking with a finger nail to lift up an edge to get a handle on a corner before you could remove it.

I always suspected the more likely scenario is that he priced it when he received it (before it became "hot") and didn't remember to modify the pricing to the level he really wanted to mark it up to before putting it on his table for that show.

To this day (probably almost 10 years later), I remember who that seller was and I refuse to enter his booth to look for anything when shopping.

-Dave

I've been attending train shows for almost 30 years, and I don't believe I have witnessed a major altercation between buyers and sellers. I have heard a lot of comments to third parties by both, however: sellers to the effect that "some people" don't want to pay what an item is really worth, and buyers to the effect that "some people" don't want to sell for what an item is really worth. I can never determine whether the "some people" refers to the same people or to different people. 

Most of the meets I go to are the NETCA meets.  I have both bought and sold at many meets.  I have never witnessed or heard a squabble.  However, as a seller, I had a very pleasant experience at one show.  An older gentleman picked up a car on my table that I had marked at $50.00.  He told me he would like to purchase it at $50.00, but he would feel like a thief if he did at he was sure it was worth at least 3 times as much.  I checked my price sheet and found I had marked the car incorrectly and the tag should have read $150.00 not $50.00.  I told him since he had been so honest, I would sell it to him for $135.00.  He said nope, it is well worth $150.00 so that is what I am going to give you for it.

A very honest gentleman, indeed.

Jim Lawson

artyoung posted:

Another Greenberg show years ago:  A prospective customer was flipping tags over to see the prices when the seller suddenly went off on him with some of the filthiest language I've ever heard (and I'm an old Sailor with a terminal case of sailor mouth myself). The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left. On my second pass through the hall, the seller had packed and left.

That is because this person saw his life flash before his eyes.Not every body is gonna take stuff like that.

dgauss posted:

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

Sad to hear he gonna find himself all alone.Because no one will want to be around.At most he could find himself band from venders.

dgauss posted:

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

I ran into him at a local train shop, He pushed his way into a conversation I was having with the owner. I forget what the conversation was be he said " You don't know who I am do you ? " I said " Yes I do, and that is why I don't but anything form you " Luckily he is one of the few Bozo's in the hobby, but the many friends I have made in this hobby have made up for it....

Joe G posted:

Many years ago at a Greenberg show with a dealer named Mel Price, may God rest his soul, who insisted a bum engine we were returning was not his. My friend had purchased the item a week before at another show. If anybody knew this guy you know he get quit loud and nasty. Fortunately and wisely �� he maintained his cool and they worked it out ...

Remember the first time I met Mel Price when Greenberg's used to come to Pennsauken, NJ.  I was trying to buy something at the same price I heard one of his sales guys quote to another buyer.  Apparently, there was a floor selling price for certain items, and they would raise the price for the next guy - that being me.  Anyway, I told him I want the same price the previous guy was quoted.  He had to track down Mel.  Mel was inhaling a hotdog and excitedly trying to renegotiate the deal.  I got the price I wanted.  But, I remember thinking the way he was eating and dealing he would dig himself into an early grave.

Sure enough, I think he died at another Greenberg's show a few weeks later.

Fred

Yeah - and it was me (vendor at the time) who got heated. Honestly, I believe that every train show where I rent a table I wind up getting a little bent at somebody. And I honestly do not think that it's me - other "casual" vendors (just trying to thin the herd - I'm not even after a profit; good thing...) like me have said the same thing.

This was no big moment, but he wanted my Premier MTH DRGW caboose; NIB. I had $45 on it. Bargain; top-quality piece. He wanted me to go to $35. No, thanks - in fact I'm sticking with $45; good price. All this was said pleasantly. He got puffed up and said I ought to give him a "deal". Uh, first, why? And, second, for that item, $45 was a "deal". He stormed (kinda) out of the show altogether. Too weird.

Another guy at the same show 6 months earlier bought an older but nice, lightly (very) used Lionel Wabash 4-6-4 with TMCC, which worked when I boxed it up to sell. I tested it. He bought it; good price. He got it home and the TMCC receiver had failed. Without contacting me at all, he spent money getting it fixed, opened an "issue" with the TCA (I'm in it, too) as to his "recourse" with the seller, and got a third party involved. 

He could have just called, before all that. He got nothing from me at that point; really ticked me off.

There are others - but no strangling as yet!

D500 posted:

Yeah - and it was me (vendor at the time) who got heated. Honestly, I believe that every train show where I rent a table I wind up getting a little bent at somebody. And I honestly do not think that it's me - other "casual" vendors (just trying to thin the herd - I'm not even after a profit; good thing...) like me have said the same thing.

This was no big moment, but he wanted my Premier MTH DRGW caboose; NIB. I had $45 on it. Bargain; top-quality piece. He wanted me to go to $35. No, thanks - in fact I'm sticking with $45; good price. All this was said pleasantly. He got puffed up and said I ought to give him a "deal". Uh, first, why? And, second, for that item, $45 was a "deal". He stormed (kinda) out of the show altogether. Too weird.

Another guy at the same show 6 months earlier bought an older but nice, lightly (very) used Lionel Wabash 4-6-4 with TMCC, which worked when I boxed it up to sell. I tested it. He bought it; good price. He got it home and the TMCC receiver had failed. Without contacting me at all, he spent money getting it fixed, opened an "issue" with the TCA (I'm in it, too) as to his "recourse" with the seller, and got a third party involved. 

He could have just called, before all that. He got nothing from me at that point; really ticked me off.

There are others - but no strangling as yet!

I think you run into all kinds in this hobby.Thank god most in this hobby are not like that.

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

Andy Hummell posted:

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

I would have said this is my price.I am sure you can find what you want elsewere.This is what I would have said to him.A nice way to say "Listen bub I do not want any problems alright.

I know it's bizarre but I like this thread! I have a laugh reading your stories.

Of course I have never been to a large train swap meet, the biggest we have is maybe one or two tables at the one and only show once a year, but that's life.

Keep the stories coming.

Roo.

Andy Hummell posted:

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

 

I remember seeing a dealer at York about 15 years ago that did just that to some figures that a buyer made him a offer on. He only hurt himself by destroying them.

Last year when I was at York I was in the Silver Hall or the Blue Hall (I don't remember which) and came across a table that had some mint post-war tenders. I found the tender that originally came with my 2037 2-6-4 steamer. I have a tender, but this was the one that came with it. It was Saturday and I asked him what was his rock bottom price. He said name a price. It was $85 and I said $70. He didn't like that and said $75. I would have paid the $75, but I didn't like his attitude. I will walk away if I don't like their attitude no matter how much I want it.

DennyM posted:

Last year when I was at York I was in the Silver Hall or the Blue Hall (I don't remember which) and came across a table that had some mint post-war tenders. I found the tender that originally came with my 2037 2-6-4 steamer. I have a tender, but this was the one that came with it. It was Saturday and I asked him what was his rock bottom price. He said name a price. It was $85 and I said $70. He didn't like that and said $75. I would have paid the $75, but I didn't like his attitude. I will walk away if I don't like their attitude no matter how much I want it.

Wow he lost a sell because of his attitude.Maybe he should have learn how to not do that.He most likely kicked himself for doing that.

Most heated argument I've had was over a New Jersey central caboose. Price on it was $20.00 Now as a precautionary measure to my bank account whatever amount of money I have in my pocket is all I allow myself to spend at a show. I was down to my last $15 and tried to make an offer but he wouldn't budge. I approached him again near the end of the show and he begrudgingly agreed. 

Only other issue that arose was that I was wearing my Pere Marquette 1225 hat and a dealer kept Trying to sell me a post war berk no matter how many times I politely refused. Eventually had to just walk away mid sales pitch.

Well some guy who looked like David Spade went to a swap meet saw a rare item asked the guy how much, the guy wanted "a little too much" according to a bystander. Well he walked away some guy who saw the Spade look alike said he will buy the item.

The guy who bought it was pretty old. Well Spade's look alike didn't like that shoved the guy, broke the item the old guy got up and beat the crap out of the look alike. 

Apparently the Vendor didn't like David Spade...

DENNYM.

I admire your discipline!

Roo.

Not at a train show, but at the Kane Co. Toy Show, as a vendor I lost my cool when some vegetable opened, breaking the seal, on an unopened model building, of those made in Lafayette, Indiana, that came out of the closed factory.  I can't now think of the name but they were made about HO size, and used on a lot of layouts, including mine as a kid.  Some were O scale including a car dealer I was glad to find.  Bilt-Rite is the name, just thought of.  An altercation I witnessed, that had me ducking for cover was at the Carlisle car swap meet where I have picked up at least one rare train set.  One guy was unhappy with something that had been shipped to him and there was much yelling and name calling.

A lot Chief's  and no Indians .  

Roo posted:

DENNYM.

I admire your discipline!

Roo.

Thanks Roo,

That's the way I am. There is a way to treat people and I try to treat people respectfully unless they give me a reason not to. It was the way he responded.

Still a rookie I guess! I have been to the last 6 York shows and several big local shows! If I see something I like I ask if the seller can do better especially if I bundle! The answer is either yes or no! I look around and all I can see is vendors, smile and on to the next one! But my experience is that most vendors are willing to deal! Every time I go, they are the ones I go to first! It's called building a clientele!

I was at a small regional show (I believe it was at Wayne, NJ) and I was looking for a Lionel RDC #400 for a friend who couldn't make the show.  I saw a very nice one, but the price tag was about ten times what it should have been. I was sure that the seller had just put another zero on the tag by mistake. When I pointed it out, he became hostile and stated that the price he had on it was what the price guides said was the correct amount.

He then opened a price guide and showed me how a Lionel model 400 was priced.  The only problem was that he was looking at the numerical listing for a prewar Lionel 400 tinplate steam locomotive, not a post-war RDC.  I gently corrected him, and he un-gently called me a thief, so we mutually decided that the negotiations were over.  No strangling or tongue-sticking was necessary.

When I am selling at a show I have some items that I really want to move and others that I will sell if I can get my price.  The stuff that I really want to sell I mark at low prices.  The stuff that I don't care about I mark at a price higher than I will accept.

I always expect that most customers will ask for a price reduction.  I am amazed at how many buyers don't ask.  I think that most Americans are so used to paying retail prices in stores that they believe all prices are set.  Americans have not grown up in a society that bargains.    

I always ask for a better deal from a seller.  I usually get it especially if I am buying several items.  I either accept the asking price or walk away if the seller won't bargain.

 In the end, it really doesn't matter if a seller won't reduce a price.  I already have so many trains that I will never run out of model railroading projects.

A visit to a train show either as a buyer or seller should be a pleasant experience.   Confrontations should not happen. 

NH Joe

New Haven Joe posted:

I always expect that most customers will ask for a price reduction.  I am amazed at how many buyers don't ask.  I think that most Americans are so used to paying retail prices in stores that they believe all prices are set.  Americans have not grown up in a society that bargains.    

NH Joe

 I am one of those who don't ask, I figure most vendors will come down 5% to 10%. If I see a price that I consider way to high I won't waste my time or theirs, Asking for a 50% off marked price is an insult IMO. With all the info available today, both sides need to do a little homework and decide what the going rates are and start from there.