Hello, For Christmas I got a new hobby and have some questions

Robert,

   Welcome to the OGR forum, lots of good people here who can answer most all your questions.  Before you start building your layout wait for your DCS O Gauge Companion book to arrive, it will save you a lot of time and grief.  2nd pick up

the OGR DCS Video Guide and watch it, Rich does a great job with the video, especially if you are just starting out in the DCS world.  These two purchases I always recommend to all new runners.  

 

Further I highly recommend you run your trains on the required dimentional curves

the train instructions calls for.  Many times it is possible to run on shorter curves

however you are just looking for engineering trouble doing it. 

 

Good luck with constructing your layout.

 

PCRR/Dave

 

 

Robert welcome to this wonderful hobby and forum 

Welcome,

Read your post twice.

1)Agreed, if the cars say O-42, you can't go with smaller radii.

2) Load and play with the RRtrack software that I hope still comes with the starter set.

3) Use it to play with some basic layout ideas.

4) If you decide to stay with Realtrax, don't go nuts on ebay and buy up a bunch of O31 (been there, got a ton I'd sell ya  ). I say this because as you grow in the hobby, you will probably find wider curves are better, unless you have real space limitations.

5) If I was going to switch between conventional and the DCSRC, on the same track, I'd physically swap out the lockons as the way to swap back and forth, or leave them both in, just pull the wires, on the one you aren't using.

6) As long as you have a transformer on the way, 2 loops are twice the fun.'

7) Everything is shiny and cool, go slow. You have lots of time.

8) Side note:mix and match those Amtrak Phases! They did, you can too.

 

Robert,

 

Good luck in your new hobby! Also, welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of information here. Anything you have questions about you can find an answer here. You can either do a search for your info or just post a new topic like you just did.

 

You will be happy with your Railking Starter set. MTH put their top of line sound and control system in them. The engine will have their newest operating system in it. You will want to run it with a DSC System to get everything out of it.

 

The most important thing you can do is READ the instructions on anything you buy. Also find a book or two about the MTH DCS system as well as anything on Lionel's TMCC or newer Legacy system. Find any video's that will help you learn either system. All are great systems and allow you to run multiple locomotive's on the same track or layout without any specialized wiring. (Just reiterating what PCRR/Dave wrote above.)

 

In my opinion, save a couple of bucks and go ahead and buy the DCS system. Your going to eventually buy it anyway. So why buy the DCSRC then buy the DCS system.  Also, the DCS system will operate trains that aren't command control. In other words, it will operate your older engines by remotely raising and lowering track voltage as well as control your DCS engines at the same time. You may eventually buy the Lionel Legacy System also. It will also run conventional engines with the addition of a Powermaster or a TPC-300 or TPC-400. I use the Legacy system. All my equipment is Lionel. Just a personal choice. The MTH stuff is great also.

 

As far as turning radius goes, you should stay with the radius it states on the box. Sometimes you can try a tighter radius than that which is specified. It really depends on the size of the rolling stock or the engine.

 

Sorry to be so long winded. LOL!

Good Luck and most of all have FUN!! That's what it's all about.

 

Mike R

Thank you Dave, Liam, Marty and Mike for the replies and the welcomes.  I can tell from reading the forum the past few days that this is a great forum, and folks here seem really helpful.  I'm already seeing some sage advice in the tips y'all have offered, from Dave's DCS resources, to Marty's thoughts on maintaining two layouts and suggestion to go slow as I grow into the hobby, to Mike's ideas on laying groundwork with sites set on full DCS.

 

I hope to get all the terminology down eventually, but wondering is DCSRC the acronym for the what MTH calls the "Wireless Digital Remote Commander" that comes in the starter set?  I get the impression it's the most basic DCS 'style' controller?  I'll do as Dave suggests and read the guide that I expect will answer alot of my questions about DCS.  I also need to read and learn about the TMCC and Legacy systems, alot of this is still greek to me

 

It seems like it might be a good choice to consider a single brand for example MTH, as I plan my eventual path to DCS (may be down the road a bit), is that fair to say or is that being too rigid?  I guess the guide might also address this, but was curious.  I think I've got a good base to start exploring the hobby from and probably won't be making any or many more equipment acquisitions till I've seen how this goes.

 

And thanks again to you all for clearing up the question on track size.  I'm now leaning towards two simple and maybe somewhat smaller layouts (O31 & O42 ovals if nothing else) because of some space limitation, but also till I get my feet wet so to speak.  I am looking forward to playing around with layout software to help me develop a plan.

 

Hopefully these pics will post of this older engine, but I'm not sure if they'll really help much.  Are there certain common places to look to identify maker?  Sorry for so many questions.

Again, thanks a bunch guys, and please feel free to offer any additonal tips as you see fit.  I'm sure for the next few months as I start out I'll be doing mostly reading and researching, but it's great to know folks are ready to offer help as questions or decisions arise.

Robert

I first thought it was a Lionel engine from the MPC era, but I looked at the PB closeup and it is a postwar Lionel F-3 that was custom painted and decaled.  It's a model of Amtrak's early F units (they had a few).  It's conventional and still has a electromechanical reverse unit.  It can be upgraded to electronic control and even sound if you want.  I think that it is twin motored and it would use open frame type motors.  These are not as smooth running as the current can motors and use a lot of power.  The missing porthole can be easily replaced as these are available from parts dealers.

 

John

"I hope to get all the terminology down eventually, but wondering is DCSRC the acronym for the what MTH calls the "Wireless Digital Remote Commander" that comes in the starter set?  I get the impression it's the most basic DCS 'style' controller?  I'll do as Dave suggests and read the guide that I expect will answer alot of my questions about DCS.  I also need to read and learn about the TMCC and Legacy systems, alot of this is still greek to me "

DCSRC=DCS Remote Commander. You were close It is the most basic form of DCS control, allowing you to use an infrared remote to access a few more bells and whistles, so to speak, than conventional transformer operation. It only works with locos that have not been previously given an ID number by a regular DCS system (which would describe any loco in a MTH ready-to-run set unless someone goofed in testing)

TMCC=TrainMaster Command Control. It's Lionel's first command system. It's been  superseded by Legacy, which performs more tricks. Legacy can run TMCC locos (since it's an extended version of TMCC), but TMCC locos don't get any additional capabilities under Legacy (other than possibly smoother operation). In a similar vein, a TMCC remote will run Legacy locos, but not be able to access their advanced functions.

Neither of the above will operate DCS locos in command, but you can run them conventionally with an add-on called a TPC (track power controller) which is essentially a remote-controlled transformer handle for conventional trains.

A DCS system won't run TMCC/Legacy locos by itself, but you can connect the Lionel boxes to the DCS box (with an MTH-provided cable) and issue TMCC-level control signals through it (the Legacy-specific control codes are proprietary to Lionel). Or, you can run the TMC/Legacy units conventionally--the DCS control box includes TPC-like functionality.

The two systems will co-exist on the same track--I once ran a double-headed train pulled by both a TMCC and a DCS loco, using one DCS controller. It was a juggling act to be sure, and there was no quick way to stop if something went wrong, but the stunt worked. If you can find a TMCC command base or can afford a Legacy system, this would be a good way to remain compatible with all the industry's offerings.

---PCJ

Robert, welcome to the Forum. As you are quickly finding out, it is without a doubt the best resource for O-Gauge information.

I recently returned to the hobby via MTH's Christmas set. It seems to be the cheapest way to get a quality engine with digital control, sound, smoke, etc. However, it is entry-level and the upgrade to the full DCS system will be necessary at some point. It's roughly the cost of an engine, so it's not all that bad and will let you realize the full potential of your engines.

I've also found that RealTrax has its limitations when it comes to layout design and construction. That's true of all sectional track, so it's important to do your homework before you buy a bunch of track. IMHO, the biggest things to consider are curve radius, turnout options, and straight track options. Those might seem obvious, but they need to be said.

Your set probably says the engine will run on 031 curves, and it will, but you'll most likely want to move to wider curves. I've already decided to relegate my RealTrax to Christmas layout use and I'm moving to ScaleTrax for a few reasons. The biggest for me is the availability of flextrack which makes "fitting" things easier, reduces the need for short "fitter" sections and allows for sweeping curves on straight runs. It also looks better with turnouts from Ross and Ross offers many more turnout options, including wyes and crossovers.

Another reason is the noise created by the RealTrax roadbed. It looks good and is great on carpet, but was loud on plywood and even louder on foam. I'm going to cover my temporary layout with some kind of carpet (most likely carpet squares) because I'm not going to lay cork roadbed until I move to a permanent layout in a few years. Right now I'm not too concerned about scenery and may never move past carpet, but the limited selection of RealTrax sections and cost pushes me to look at the alternatives. Even if it's not ScaleTrax, it will be GarGraves or something else without plastic roadbed.

Also, I am going to stick with MTH for engines because I have no affinity for a particular road name and don't see any reason to increase my costs. I have the 4-6-0 steamer and I want an Old West style steamer and 2 diesels. If the Lincoln or Washington are still available this time next year, one of those will do, I love that style. I'll probably go with ScaleTrax to further my support for MTH.

A quick browse didn't see a response along these lines.

 

Regarding running passenger cars that are recommended for 42" diameter curves on 31" track:  There's no harm in trying it.

 

Likely, they will derail (be ready to turn off the power to the likely short circuit) and be annoying because of it.  If they don't, and if the looks of the "overhang" of the cars doesn't bother you, you're good to go.

 

  --jcr

Thanks RailRide, that helps a great deal...I forget how long I searched for the of the "TIF" acronym, and now I can recite it like I know what I'm talking about

I took others' cues and read thru the MTH manual online from my starter set this morning (my starter set will be here later in the week, along with the Williams AB).  There is alot of information just in there to digest...I now know a little bit more about DCC vs DCS differences, and 'some' of the cross  compatability.

 

Thanks Passenger Train Collector and Double DAZ for the welcome and for the track thoughts.  It's funny DoubleDAZ, I was really torn between a starter set steamer and the diesel...even almost bought both, which would be a big commitment to the hobby...but seemed a bit redundant.  Although I do think a nice steamer would be my preferred next step down the road, if I can pace myself

 

I think I would like to pick up a circle of O42 track so I can run the long MTH aluminum Amtrak cars.  However, I am thinking conservatively to start in terms of track commitments (based on y'alls suggestions).  Maybe just starting with an inner and outer oval (assuming an O31 oval will fit within an O42).  It does seem folks have different preferences for long term layouts.  For example, Lionel Fastrax seems to be preferred somewhat over Realtrax (from the little I've read), in part I guess because Realtrax can make for trickier connections.  If that is fair to say? 

 

The Z750 might be in this afternoon along with what I think is a O31 track and a lock on, so hopefully I can at least test fire the old engine and run her around the track (my brother did say it was tested and worked).  I'm almost like a kid at Christmas again (silly as that might sound to say) waiting on that maiden run.

Thanks jcr, and yeah I figured I might have to at least set them on the track and roll them around or test run one slowly with the old engine & z750 just to see how they fit (out of curiousity, like that which killed the cat  .  Luckily the cars are not from a brand new boxed set or anything like that, and hopefully this would not hurt the transformer.

Robert

Welcome and enjoy the fun!

 

I would also place my vote for you to get full MTH DCS system at your earliest convenience. It just adds so much more to the hobby. In fact, it is the primary reason I started back in the hobby. Enjoy!!

MTG

You don't actually need to dedicate yourself to the MTH line completely for DCS. IMO I think you will get the most out of DCS, if you do, but if you like some particular conventional engines DCS can do that on a separate track (The Polar Express and Hogwarts Express are conventional for me.). If you  have the money to one day buy the accessories to control Lionel Legacy and TMCC, you can control those. AND, if you really get in to it, many locos can be upgraded to PS2, so they are DCS controllable. The kits cost about $180 and professionally installed will run about $300, so you'll have to REALLY like a loco to do that. 

Also look at every manufacturers rolling stock. For the most part, if you like a particular freight or passenger car, it can run behind any Loco, there are some lighting considerations, with DCS,  but they are easily remedied.

 

Welcome to the OGR forum.  This really is a great place to get help with almost any issue you have with your trains.  There is no shortage of opinions here...  some of which are even correct.  

 

My $.02 on the curve radius...  Go bigger if you can.  If you're just playing around with your RealTrax on a table or on the floor, go for it.  But when you consider a more permanent layout, I'd go at least O72 and bigger if you can - especially if you might operate scale passenger equipment.

 

As for the advice about DCS...  I would buy the system, Barry's book and the video.

 

Good Luck!

I could be wrong, but my thought is that Fastrack has more pieces to choose from, especially turnouts and curve radius, so there is a little more leeway in layout design with it. There are also free programs that support it vs RealTrax. However, your set should include a version of RR-Track layout design software that supports RealTrax and it is a very nice program. That's one reason I recommend waiting to buy more RealTrax until you've had a chance to work with it, etc. Committing to RealTrax can happen very quickly once you buy a few turnouts, the cost really adds up and then you're stuck.

While longer passenger cars will run on 042, I don't think you're going to like how it they look and you'll yearn for wider turns. There is a video in one of the threads here, might be Lionel's traveling layout, that has an elevated circle of passenger cars and they really look terrible going in a small circle. My Christmas set looks bad enough going around the 031 curves they are designed for, but it's bearable on the 6x8 oval for now. I'm torn between 042 and 054, and will probably opt for 054 if they fit. My thought is to go at least one size wider and preferably two depending on space. I'm new, so I'm no expert, but I've been listening to the experts here and watching all of the videos that have been posted for Christmas layouts, etc. There are some "tight" layouts where running is more important than engine/car overhang looks, so it's very much a personal preference. Try out the RR-Track software to see what will fit in your space. Search for MTH and RealTrax on YouTube to find a lot of videos. I started here by posting my plans for an ambitious table layout and I've all but forgotten that first attempt at design.

Re the screw on the front of the diesel: I can't remember the size offhand but it is a tapered coarse thread with a countersunk head.  It's pretty short and as you said, you need to be careful not to strip out the hole.

 

BTW, you can get 0-42, 054, and 0-72 curves in the older style tubular track, and it will be cheaper than any of the new track systems, if you want to save some money.  It doesn't look as fancy but it will work fine.

 

John

The TBII would give you horn & bell sounds.  I think it plays a recorded grade crossing sequence of two long, one short, and one long horn blasts - so you wouldn't be able to do your own thing with the horn button, but that is a low cost way to go. 

 

BTW, it seems that you're getting a lot of advice to go with the MTH DCS control system - which is fine, a lot of people use it.  Just so you know, Lionel has their TMCC/Legacy system too - and a lot of people use that.  Both systems have their passionate fans and sometimes on this Forum there will be some big arguments about whose train is better.  It reminds me of the American Flyer/Lionel wars that kids had back in the 50's.   Personally, I prefer the Lionel system.  There are still a lot of people that prefer to run in the conventional mode, without any digital control system.  They have a point, less things to go wrong and simple hookup.  Whatever floats your boat, the point is to have fun.

 

John

Thanks Gandalf and Big Truck Pete for the welcome, as well as DoubleDAZ and everyone’s thoughts on track size.  Lots of great tips, and this site has been a huge help already!

 

Also, thanks for everyone’s thoughts on full DCS.  I think I’ll be glad I went with a MTH DCSRC starter set to get a feel for that system and brand.  I plan to find a good hobby or train specific shop in Dallas/Fort Worth to check out Lionel and alternative track/equipment/control systems, in order to get a fair comparison of other brands before I make any further commitments.  Decisions, decisions…

 

Along those lines, I’ll admit it was a bit tough just choosing within the MTH starter set offerings (e.g. Pennsylvania, Union Pacific or similar Steamer set versus the SD70Ace Diesel which I ended up choosing) because of style, equipment era, effects, etc.  I ended up grabbing the affordable Williams’ AB (besides brand commitment, set redundancy, and looks) in part to give myself a flavor of other manufacturers.

 

The track and Z750 arrived late yesterday!  So I’ll be getting that maiden run in with the old Lionel engine before the day is out

 

Thanks, Paul and John for the Lionel info, and John I really appreciate the screw info.  Short, coarse, countersunk is something I can understand.  I’m inserting that internal pic of the chassis once more just because of the scrape marks around the base of the rear engine.

Is this normal wear & tear?

 

And just a couple more 'greenhorn' question on this old engine's couplers.  The front one seems to work by pulling down on the plunger just behind the chassis' front valance, is that the correct method?  Does this rear one look damaged, and if so is it repairable?  They were both sprung open before I messed with them.

 

I also have no idea how this MTH coupler works...is this a "proto" coupler?  Here's a shot of what I believe is a sleeper car as well (these cars really are long compared to the old engine).  The cars are a bit nicked up being loose without boxes, but I think a little aluminum polish (not on the paint of course), will brighten them up.  The photobucket thumbs should open in a new window, and then if you click the image again it should give pretty high resolution.

 

Thanks again for all the info guys...it's slowly but surely all sinking in, and sorry for another looong post.  I thought it was better to keep some of my greenhorn questions, as I call them, under this one thread for now until I get a bit more up to speed on the forum and the hobby.

Robert

To each his own but I think the best layouts have a personal story. Imagine two scenarios showing your layout to friends and family.  In one case you discuss the fine points of  DCS vs. Legacy command systems.  In the other case you point to figures of 2 boys waving from an Amtrak passenger car at a figure of a father standing on a platform.  In other words, if you have a story to tell, don’t get bogged down by the technology.  What makes the hobby interesting is the variety of tools available whether your limitations are time and/or budget.

Thanks John that is a big help...sorry if you guys have dumb this stuff down for me, but now the dummy coupler makes perfect sensel.  I'm clueless around most of this as I never personally owned a Lionel or O-gauge as a kid.  My older brother had a Lionel Santa Fe Freight set that I was happy to help wear out for him when I could get my hands on it, and I only got into HO for a very short time when I was bit older.

 

The wire is there on the dummy coupler as you described, and for the life of me I could not figure out where the activator was on the MTH, and didn't want to force anything.  Thanks, for the parts source too (just realized earlier I need two replacement portholes) and for your thoughts on the scrapes...they didn't really appear to be made by the motor, but wasn't sure.

 

That is a very cool thought on the layout approach Stan, and I could see my 'younger' brother getting a big kick out of something that.

Robert

Oh, and I just was passing by the TV and saw an annoucement for a train show in Fort Worth at Will Rogers...I can't even think of the last time I saw a commercial about the train hobby...must be fate

Hey, no problem!  Go to the train show, you'll have a good time checking everthing out, and if your wallet is too heavy it will take care of that too!

 

John

Robert,

 

When you get a chance, stop by my website, Bluejeans Place.  In 2006 I reentered the hobby to build my first layout since high school (in the early 70s).  You may find some helpful ideas there on how to get started with your own layout.

 

 

I think YouTube is your friend. I used to think all I wanted to do was run 3-4 trains around the track, but now I've been convinced I need a story to tell and a reason for the track to be there. Mine is going to be simple, lumber and passenger service between Phoenix and Flagstaff with maybe only a depot and a few houses for Phoenix, some low/high desert, scenery, Red Rock formation and depot for Sedona, and a 50's diner, depot, trees and lumber mill for Flagstaff.  I'm going to buy 3 more engines and I don't care if they don't match eras, locales, etc. I buy based on color, style, same scale and something that will navigate 042/054 curves.

From Pat's website:

"The train layout in a beach town environment creates its own set of scenery challenges, but at the same time it offered a way to combine several different parts of our lives in our own little world."

 

This is very well stated.  If you can figure a way to get other family members involved in your layout, all kinds of interesting things can happen. 

Thanks Pat, DoubleDAZ/Dave, and Stan...that quote from Pat's site is a great way to put it.  Immediately thoughts of all different stories start popping into my head that could be incorporated into a "story telling" diorama landscape.  Winter weather and all, brought to mind a particular scene where my older brother and I went sledding on old car hood, down a snow covered hill at the park near our childhood home...best sled ever!

 

Another one when my dad and my younger brother come walking back to an East Texas cabin soaking wet after capsizing a small aluminum boat trying to take it out for a ride...my dad's cigar boxes floating on top the water afterwards like deck chairs from the Titanic.  I can see all the scenes populating the layout.  Tons of stories to tell, and I'm sure they'll have plenty to contribute.  Very neat idea.

 

Layout location?

In debating where I can allot the most space, I was considering the garage.  Since most, if not all, O-gauge sets are not rated for outdoor use and my garage is not climate controlled, am I asking for trouble?

 

Transformer for this old Lionel engine?

I didn’t end up getting a chance to try the Z750 (will be doing that tomorrow), but I did get to run the old engine on my nephews’ Lionel set they got last year.  They got a kick out how old it looked, inside and out.  I don’t know if they had a CW50, CW80, etc transformer, but it sure did seem to take a lot of the throttle throw to move it.  Is that normal for the old engines (higher draw), or is there a minimum power transformer that is needed to run the old engine around a basic oval?

 

I read something about measuring voltage off the track.  Is there a minimum voltage you would want to see at the farthest point from the transformer?  Or does it depend on equipment?

 

Best lube?

Another thing that didn’t help was I didn’t really lube up the old engine before running it, but we did not run it very long...just a test.  The general info out there seems to be use lightweight household oil on the lube points, is this like 3-n-1?  Is there a common standard, or is this like asking which train brand you prefer?

How about using a lightweight grease (e.g. lubriplate, or similar) that could be substituted to suspend and stay longer?

 

I’ll be researching and reading more on how to grease the engines themselves.

 

Good deals at shows?

Go to the train show, you'll have a good time checking everthing out, and if your wallet is too heavy it will take care of that too!

 

My brother(s) and nephews are going to the show...should be fun.  I may have to ask them to hold my wallet and check book

Seriously though, are there ever any really good deals on equipment or other items at these shows?  Any tips on finding them or things to check out there?

(Seeing full fledged DCS and Legacy are high on my list)

 

Really looking forward to checking all the different equipment and new tech stuff from all the manufacturers, and sorry for yet another long post with a bunch of questions.  I appreciate all the advice and suggestions offered.  This is also helping me keep track of some of the information I still need to search and learn.

 

On other thing I'll be on the lookout for at the show, and searching for on the forum, is a recommended good first book to read about old and new model railroading...like a "model railroading for dummies"

Thanks again,

Robert

Hello Making The Grade,

 

Midlothian Hobbies is a good shop for MTH stuff around DFW.  They also have Atlas trains .  Collectible Trains and Toys in Forney is another shop which has Lionel stuff as well as many other brands. Lots of used stuff there also.  

 

There is a big train show in Fort Worth this weekend at the Will Rogers Center.  And another show in Plano in a couple of weeks.

 

Phil

Robert,

 

Here are a few of my layout's scenes that relate to my life or my life with Sylvia.  After you look at these, you'll probably have a dozen ideas how to incorporate similar memories from your life onto your layout.

 

My 20 years in the Air Force couldn't go without "mention" on the layout.  Here's the south end of "Liberty Air Force Base" complete with a flagpole flying both the US and Air Force flags.  (This is the new Lionel flagpole with LED lights.  I pulled some graphics into PowerPoint and created the AF flag to fly under the US flag.)

 

 

 

Oh, that's right, the nitpickers always want a prototype for things on a layout.  Here you go, nitpickers, the prototype is right on our front lawn where the US and AF flags fly 24 hrs a day including spot lights at night! 

 

 

Twenty-some years ago when my kids were in Sunday School, I would sit in front of 7-11 having a coffee and reading a newspaper.  Well, that explains this structure...  You should have heard my daughter laughing when she saw it in the very back end of the layout.  BTW--notice the cannonball light?  That did not come with the structure, but it works well for lighting up the sign.

 

 

 

 

I love blues music and have made the "pilgrimage" down to the Mississippi Delta to see all the major "blues history" sites.  Sylvia and I have also been to Beale Street in Memphis including the Hard Rock Cafe.  Those experiences led to this scene of our Dalmatian, Mick, listening to a bluesman playing the harmonica outside the Hard Rock Cafe on our layout. 

 

(Prototype note for the nitpickers:  Mick's collar in real life is red.  Sylvia painted this red one on the Dalmatian figure "so it'll look like Mick's!")

 

Great story, Pat. I'm going to have to give that some thought as I design my eventual layout. Having spent 27 yrs in the Air Force myself, I particularly like the flag display.

Phil, thanks for the tips on DFW train shops! 

 

We did make it to the show at Will Rogers...it was dizzying, but in a good way...just alot to take in, and I made it out with the wallet and checkbook intact.  There were more individual vendors at the show than I expected there would be.  In hindsight, one gentleman had a nice mth flatcar with a couple 1st generation mustangs on it for $20 that I wished I wouldn't have passed up.  I guess I'm recusing myself from any additional immediate purchases until I've got at least a rough, semi-permanent layout setup and running.

 

Thanks for the pics Stan, those are some really nice personal touches.  I especially like the story behind the dalmation and his collar, being a dog lover myself.  Your light on the 7-eleven is very cool touch as well, and makes me think with all the advances in led & miniature lighting, that is something I'll definitely want to incorporate into my plan.  The Lionel area had a real nice two tier layout that didn't take up that much space (wish I had taken some pictures).  I need to get the layout software out of the r-t-r and start messing around with some designs.

 

John, thanks for all your help with the Lionel engine.  Can you please offer any tips on ordering those portholes from Stan Orr's site.  There seem to be three types listed, "heavy snap in", "flat" and "F3".  Other than that they seem to be by part numbers (all greek to me) and I could not find diagram or series/year info to reference.  Any thoughts?  Again I really appreciate your assistance.

 

Speaking of the big brands, I was surprised that Lionel and MTH both had nice large display areas at the show, with really great looking layouts, but I never saw them running through the rigors of their Railsounds/Legacy and PS3/DCS systems.  Maybe they were saving it for seminars, but it sure would have been nice to hear or see them more in operation.  A Lionel guy did put a Railsounds tender on a side track operated by one of their standard transformers, behind another engine he was running, and he let us here some sounds.  However, MTH didn't seem to interested and they even had the DCS remote set out that I assume was operating their layout...just a bit odd.

 

All in all the show was great, but too whirlwind of a trip and the young boys got a little bored after a couple hours...it was still great fun.

 

I did have enough time left Sunday to set up the oval, z750 and mess around with the Williams engine.  Seems to built very sturdy and I believe it's "gauge".  I also learned the long Amtrak cars won't quite make it round the O31 curves (knowing they were spec'd for O42 and larger...I still felt compelled to try).  They seemed to clear by hand, but with the engine hooked up and power going the car's truck wheels made contact with the aluminum body and tripped the breaker on the power block.  I can tell they're going to look great on the right size track.

 

A quick couple questions about the Williams engine.  I noticed a bit of blue sparks on the Realtrax oval under the engine trucks when it was running.  Is this normal?

I did over oil the engine a bit when I got started (being a greenhorn), but thought I had cleaned that up.  Also, the TBII sounds were not as loud as I had expected.  So I did some searching on that, and read where there is a POT on the board to adjust the volume.  Is this only on pre-Bachman models?  The literature didn't mention anything about volume adjustment either.  Otherwise she runs really smooth and strong, and has nicer detail than I expected for the value.

 

With vacation over I've got very little extra time during the week right now for larger scale plans, but am determined to get a layout table setup up as soon as possible (even a simple 4'x8' one to start).  Thanks for all you guys help, input, and patience as I still feel like such a novice...but having a good time nonetheless

Robert

 

 

Welcome Robert,

 

Probally the most important part of this hobby is to have fun.

A starter set is good for you to get into the hobby, but sometimes sets don't come with track or transformers in O gauge trains(Williams does that).

Since you have both MTH and Williams trains, I suggest using MTH or Bachmann/Williams transformers for now.

 

I have a DCS unit with both the handheld remote and TIU(track interface unit) and the(AIU) accessory unit from MTH. Command control is nice but can get expensive when trying to run both TMCC & DCS together.

 

Run two differant tracks and use one for conventional running and the other for command control, see which you like best.

I happen to like the old style tubular track that Lionel used for many years before Fastrac. Be careful with buying track, as there are many styles and brand names of track for sale in O gauge.

Before adding on to your layout find out what track you like and use it.

I like to use Gargraves track for my O gauge trains; Lionel and Williams, however I find that I need to use O gauge tubular track for my MTH steam engines.

 

Lee F.

A little info on running 042 passenger cars; you need the larger engine as well like an SD-45, especially if you have really long passenger cars as it is an issue with coupler end play movement between engine and first passenger car=derailment prevention.

 

The Williams True Blast 2 horn volume can be adjusted even with the newer Bachmann TB-2 units. The little potentiameter switch is difficult to see at times but it is there, a little cleaning of the contacts will help adjust the volume, if you don't clean the contact area you may not be able to adjust the volume switch.

Williams by Bachmann has brought out a brand new system on their newly released GP-30's and it is called True Blast plus, don't know much about the newer system.

 

Lee F.

Thanks for the welcome and the tips on the Potentiometer Lee.  I will see if I can up the volume some.  So am I understanding you correctly, do you think my new Williams F7 or the old Lionel F3 will have trouble pulling the long MTH Aluminum Amtrak Cars (there are 6 cars in the set I received)?

 

I guess they are shorter engines (~12" in length), but there seems to be plenty of rotating range on the couplers, and they are both twin motor engines.  The binding I ran into on the O31 appeared to be caused by the "long wheel base" as it were on the narrower curves causing the passenger car wheels to make contact with the edge of the aluminum body, but maybe I need to take a closer look at the engines couplers and trucks movement.  Here is a pic of the Lionel and Williams engines...

 

I'm still not sure what was causing the blue sparks under the new Williams engine (seemed to be near the contact rollers), or if this is just normal operation?

Thanks,

Robert

Well, one last lenghty post...

I paid a visit to the hobby shop so I could pick up some lube and also to check out the state of things.  Sad to say, I don't think I've been to this particular shop in almost 30 years.  It's a small shop in Irving,Tx called Wild Bills.  It was a very worthwhile trip.

 

The gentleman I spoke with set me straight on the post war F3 portholes all being the same.  They didn't have the Labelle lube...only a brand called "XL" or "Excelle", so I got a couple bottles of that (he recommended light for axles and medium for gears).  I also got a chance to see some Lionel Fastrack, cars and insundries up close, and picked up some JT's Megasteam (unscented…not really, at least not for my nose but more on that in a bit).  It was the only bottle of JT's he had on hand.  I forget which brand he carried, but don't recall seeing the Lionel Premier (some searches here turned up that recommendation)...I'll be going back soon I'm sure.

 

So this was also in preparation for the maiden run with the new MTH Norfolk Southern SD70ACe from the r-t-r set with PS3.  Maybe it was because I didn’t get a chance to see a PS3 or Legacy put through its paces at the show, but I am officially ‘Blown Away’!

 

The sounds, the smoke (boy did it smoke), the lighting and the smooth, smooooth running was a sensory overload firsthand.  I believe I am hooked!  I was very impressed with the PFA talk as well versus all the recorded sound bits I had heard on the web.  May be the fact those recordings were mostly PS3 steamer recordings, but the dialogue was really natural on the diesel, not choppy or too rehearsed.  The quality of the detailing on the MTH engine was super impressive for an entry level set.

 

I am thoroughly impressed with the quality of MTH equipment/cars as well.  The level of detail did not remind me of any train I had as a kid, even though I don’t have much to compare it against (other than the newer Williams AB and the old Lionel F-3 engines).  Still hard to believe my expectations were so exceeded on this basic starter set...even given my limited experience being brand new to the hobby.  I’ll be picking up the DCS Companion book as mentioned, but afraid it’s will end up costing me a premium of ~$300 = going full DCS, then I’ll have to fight the siren call for a good steamer to boot.

 

I’m chalking up the Williams sparking to over oiling.  I read here where folks recommend prepping the center rail more than I have, and I’ll run it some more to confirm it.  I just hope I’m not missing anything critical or defective on the engine, but the SD70Ace never arced or sparked once.  Wonder if it could be a difference in the internals and/or the power source (z750 vs the DCSRC).  Although the diesel does run on O31, I did confirm I won’t be content with that for a mainline in a permanent layout, as many of you suggested.  Thanks again for all of you guys help and advice, and I will definitely try to keep my future post length down...just way too excited

Thanks again,

Robert

You are right about the Williams not really liking O-31 - on a permanent layout its best if you can go to 42, 45 or even 48 curves or larger: the wider the the curve the happier (smoother, less drop off in speed, less unprototypical stick out at the ends) the loco will be.  Even O-36 instead will make a noticeable difference.

 

Keep in mind as you plan a playout that there are many locos (and passenger cars) that require at least O-054 or wider curves, and a few that only run on 72 or wider.  But the selection of locos that run on 36 and tighter is big.  However, most locos look better and run smoother on something wider than the minimum radius they will run on, and occasionally a manufacturer messes up (Lionel's two-truck Shay is an example: some will run on O-31 as advertised, some not, such as mine and some others, which binds up even on O-36). 

 

The arcing might be from over-oiling.  You could try cleaning off any excess you see and then cleaning center roller and wheels well, and checking the track for oily/dirty spots.  Williams locos are not more prone to arcing than other locos and your MTH was new with factory-clean rollers and wheels, so i would suspect dirt/oil.

 

Getting to know the owner/staff at your LHS is not only fun but very useful.  A place like Wild Bills will really help you out and as they see you come back regularly they will really start to work to understand and help you alot.  Plus, its fun to visit the LHS, but realize you always buy at least what you set out to get, and usually much much more! 

Thanks for the tips Lee!  It does appear it was due to over oiling with some heavier multi-purpose oil.  Now that I've cleaned up the track and rollers and let the Williams diesel sit on a rag for a few days to dry, it's not arcing/sparking nearly as much.  I'm going to clean the contact rollers and track with some denatured alchohol and re-oil with the correct stuff (and amount) I picked up from Wild Bills.  I plan to frequent their establishment as often as I can.  It's a very down home place in an older part of town, and even on my first visit in so many years they were very friendly and helpful with all my newcomer questions.

 

I'm realizing more and more how important the tips on track and layout choices are through reading and researching.  I have to face the fact I'm fairly confined on space, and will have to stick with a 4x8 area in 'part' of a spare room for now.  I was considering a garage setup, but it gets so hot in the summer here in Texas, and the DFW area is prone to high humidity, that I think this is the best way to go and grow in the hobby for now.

 

At the moment I'm between building a layout table (the carpentry is not a problem), and repurposing a large used dining table or even had the whimsical thought of using something like an old ping-pong table.  This all likely means limiting myself to O42 curves in the beginning with a simple inner/outer loop of 031/042...I might be able to incorporate O54, but it might be close.  I've come to the realization that the MTH Amtrak 70 cars are really intended for hobbyists with a good deal larger space to work in than myself, but even if they don't look great I'll at least get to run them on O42.

 

After running the MTH SD70ACe N/S starter set and seeing the railking/rugged rails stock up close, and the features of DCSRC I couldn't resist any longer...so I purchased the MTH PRR steamer set.  It was a very tough call between the diesel and steamer starter sets to begin with, and initially I was looking at the UP steamer.  However the PRR green grew on me and I think it will contrast the color of the N/S nicely...can't wait for it to arrive!  The deals a couple of ebay sellers (Mario's and vztech/Silver City) were offering on these were just too hard to resist.  I got the SD70ACe set for $350 including shipping the PRR 4-6-0 freight set for $330.

 

I reasoned the redundancies won't be that bad afterall if I decide to do something like a figure 8 on the inner loop, and the 'semi scale' nature of the 4-6-0 steamer and r-t-r stock should operate well on O31.  I even added a reefer, antohher tank and a couple coal cars from RMT's irresistable sale to flesh out the rolling stock.  (Did I mention I'm hooked! .  So it appears full DCS is inevitable (maybe later this year), I'll be staying semi-scale or O27 (if I'm using that terminology correctly), and I think this will give me nice variety of three different lines to mix and match between.

 

So, so much for shorter posts and refraining from additional expenditures, but there is one question I have that is probably too simple to be answered by searching...

How do size on switches work?  For example if I was going to connect an inner loop of O31 to O42 and say have them share an outer straight away, would I use an O31 switch?  I'm guessing the size of the switch is based on its curved portion...would that be correct?

Thanks again for all y'alls help!