Help ID this engine with the "Red Shoes"?

It was used in the 6-1053 James Gang set from the 80's. The 6-1661 Rock Island line set also had red wheels, but it had a silver frame. I believe there was another tank type engine that used the red wheels.

General was my bet......

conrail5065 posted:

It was used in the 6-1053 James Gang set from the 80's. The 6-1661 Rock Island line set also had red wheels, but it had a silver frame. I believe there was another tank type engine that used the red wheels.

I just checked TRAINZ site and the picture they show for 6-1053 James Gang engine (8005) doesn't look the same - wheels are different (different type of counterweights) and the DC motor is totally in the wrong spot. And to AMCDAVE, the General also has the wrong wheels, all bosses are drilled and threaded and it appears to use metal gears, so that's not it.

The 8601 0-4-0 Rock Island, on the other hand, is a VERY good match. Aside from my motor frame being chemically blackened and the one in this picture isn't,  they appear to be identical.

Thanks for the help guys, and please let me know if there is any other engine where this motor/frame was used.

George

18700 Rock Island 0-4-0T dockside.

It does look right for the Rock Island 18700, except that the 18700s that I have seen have sliding pickups, not rollers. This one appears to have had a long service life though, so perhaps the rollers are a retrofit?

Lionel Lines docksider from set 11919 (1997) ?

The engine in the set is item 18718.

There's some good sleuthing going on above.

It's not the 8005 James Gang because the wheel style is wrong.

It's not the 8601 Rock Island Line because that has a Pullmor motor.

It's not the 18700 Rock Island Docksider because that uses sliding pickup shoes -- although those can be changed in about 10 seconds.

It's probably the 18718 Lionel Lines Docksider (numbered 8200) from two different sets produced in 1997-1998. Ed H shows the catalog photo above, and I've attached pics of the production version here.

TRW

Yeah I put extra valve gear,new stack and a 3 position E unit.

I disagree with you on this one Todd. The 18500 ( built in 87-88 ) had pick-up rollers as the MPC sliding shoe was long since obsoleted by then. I think the last time the sliding shoe was used was on the 1982 Quicksilver Alco diesel. It could be either the Rock Island or later Lionel lines version, but the 'patina' looks older.

I think the 1980 8007 PRR style 2-6-4 NH and NKP locos had the sliding shoes.

Chuck,

The sliders continued after 1982, but on the DC-only items -- Docksiders, 2-4-0's and Industrial Switchers. I think the last year they were used was 1990, even though the DC-only sets continued into 1991.

There's one more item that should probably be considered in the above list: the 6-18705 Bandlands "Neptune" Dockside Switcher from 1990-91. Those definitely had colored wheels, but my recollection was that they were more orange-red versus a true red.

TRW

Your memory is better than mine. What engines after '82-'83 that had sliding shoes?

Wow! I certainly came to the right place with this question! The interesting thing about the docksider that I wasn't aware of, is that it was DC only - that probably explains why a 0103 e-unit wouldn't fit within the engine frame, where similar 0-4-0's keep theirs. I might add I also saw another switcher, Santa Fe 8512 that could have been the original shell as well.

One thing I didn't mention is that this motor came with a somewhat-corroded-but-now-cleaned brass strip only, no collectors were present. I had a spare contact roller, so I installed it for testing on my temporarily DC-only track. So, that leaves open a few more doors, I'm guessing...

PaperTRW posted:

Chuck,

The sliders continued after 1982, but on the DC-only items -- Docksiders, 2-4-0's and Industrial Switchers. I think the last year they were used was 1990, even though the DC-only sets continued into 1991.

There's one more item that should probably be considered in the above list: the 6-18705 Bandlands "Neptune" Dockside Switcher from 1990-91. Those definitely had colored wheels, but my recollection was that they were more orange-red versus a true red.

TRW

 

It could be the camera, but those wheels do look orange-red compared to my RI 8700 0-4-0 dc dockside's which is (was ) "red", matching the RI 9078 bobber caboose seen above... I think .

If you had the rod bolts, the shoulder may be a clue as there are quite a few rod choices here as well.

(this wont play, it is just a screenshot)

I just added a bridge rectifier to run on ac. And another to slow it down

  With weight added, they can be fun little stump pullers. It out pulls all but one of my single motor diesel switchers (now a pw magnetraction E motor )

Rock Island docksider, DC only.  That's what was in "Lil' Stinky" before I dropped in an AC drive with black wheels... 

Mitch

GeoPeg posted:

Wow! I certainly came to the right place with this question! The interesting thing about the docksider that I wasn't aware of, is that it was DC only - that probably explains why a 0103 e-unit wouldn't fit within the engine frame, where similar 0-4-0's keep theirs. I might add I also saw another switcher, Santa Fe 8512 that could have been the original shell as well.

Yes, when the docksiders were introduced, they used the regular AC motor with a two-position e-unit, but when Lionel went to the can motor, the board for the electronic e-unit didn't fit. I did manage to squeeze an e-unit board into 18700 docksider - I had to cut off one corner of the board and use a wire to repair the trace I destroyed. This gets that corner low enough to go under the coal bunker. (I wonder where Rock Island got the red coal they used to fire these things????) The two white wires are for the reverse lockout - haven't gotten around to wiring in a switch for that yet.

Yes the E unit won't fit the body so I cut a slot for it with my Dremel and formed some sheet brass to enclose it and added a topper from an old Marx tender.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Your memory is better than mine. What engines after '82-'83 that had sliding shoes?

Chuck,

This should be a fairly accurate list:

Industrial Switchers: 18900 Pennsylvania (1988-89)

Plastic 2-4-0's: 8902 Atlantic Coast Line (1979-90), 8314 Southern (1983-85), 8625 Pennsylvania (86-90), 18704 Lionel Lines "MicroRacers" (1989)

Dockside Switchers: 8512 Santa Fe (1985-86), 18700 Rock Island (1987-88), 18705 Badlands "Neptune" (1990-91) -- this last one might have come with rollers in '91

There definitely was a change to rollers in 1991 for the new 6-18706 Santa Fe and 6-18707 Mickey's World Tour 2-4-0's.

TRW

GeoPeg posted:

Wow! I certainly came to the right place with this question! The interesting thing about the docksider that I wasn't aware of, is that it was DC only - that probably explains why a 0103 e-unit wouldn't fit within the engine frame, where similar 0-4-0's keep theirs. I might add I also saw another switcher, Santa Fe 8512 that could have been the original shell as well.

One thing I didn't mention is that this motor came with a somewhat-corroded-but-now-cleaned brass strip only, no collectors were present. I had a spare contact roller, so I installed it for testing on my temporarily DC-only track. So, that leaves open a few more doors, I'm guessing...

The 8512 Santa Fe would have been the right style shell (Dockside Switcher) but those came with black wheels.

Since we now know that the roller pick-up may or may not be the right style for this unit, I think the best we can do is to say it could be an 18700 Rock Island, 18705 Badlands Neptune or 18718 Lionel Lines Dockside Switcher. Between those three, there are two different shades of red but it's hard to tell which-is-which given the existing photos.

TRW

nickaix posted:

GeoPeg posted:

Wow! I certainly came to the right place with this question! The interesting thing about the docksider that I wasn't aware of, is that it was DC only - that probably explains why a 0103 e-unit wouldn't fit within the engine frame, where similar 0-4-0's keep theirs. I might add I also saw another switcher, Santa Fe 8512 that could have been the original shell as well.

Yes, when the docksiders were introduced, they used the regular AC motor with a two-position e-unit, but when Lionel went to the can motor, the board for the electronic e-unit didn't fit. I did manage to squeeze an e-unit board into 18700 docksider - I had to cut off one corner of the board and use a wire to repair the trace I destroyed. This gets that corner low enough to go under the coal bunker. (I wonder where Rock Island got the red coal they used to fire these things????) The two white wires are for the reverse lockout - haven't gotten around to wiring in a switch for that yet.

Lionel introduced a smaller electronic e-unit when they introduced "Percy" in the late 1990's. It features several surface mount components, which allows the reduction in size, but since the main transistors are still through-hole, the current rating is still decent. (Actually, I did a bit of checking and found that the transistors on the 103/107 boards are rated for 3 amps, whereas those on the Percy board are rated at 4 amps.) I've attached a photo of the two below.

The 103/107 board measures 2.375" x 1.375" while the Percy board is a full inch shorter at 1.375" square.

If anyone needs one of these smaller "Percy" boards, I have a few extras at $20 shipped. I'd say they'd be perfect for a can-motored dockside switcher or anything else that has a small, starter set-type motor.

TRW

Thanks Todd, I will certainly keep your shorter bds in mind if I can ever find a proper shell to go around this motor!!  I like the 18718 Lionel Lines Docksider (numbered 8200), got one of those too?

That's good stuff to know! Thanks!

George,

Sorry... no extras on the 18718 Docksider. They're fairly difficult to find.

TRW