Help - Kline K4 with cruise motor board just sat on track and fried itself

Hi John,

Sorry to hear about this, I do ERR upgrades on a daily basis. If you want email me and I'll go over everything with you.

Thanks,

Alex

Can you post pictures of the damage?  The ERR would be a simple swap in of the Cruise M board, or the Lionel equivalent.

I guess I would look wiring faults, a bad motor (shorting).  Seems weird for the board to just go up in smoke.   G

If this engine had K-Line cruise there would be a vaned sensor on the flywheel? If so its not worth looking for a replacement board. An ERR Cruise M would be the best alternative. I agree its not a typical failure mode though. To verify your motor is OK you could disconnect it from any circuitry and hook a battery or DC power pack to it and see if it turns.

Pete

"Question. Are K line electronics known to spontaneously short out?"

I had it happen last year or so on a just-purchased (used) K-Line B&O Pacific. Locomotive was running fine when it suddenly stopped and REALLY smoked!

See: "Never a Good Sign"  April 12, 2013.

The K-Line driver board can be replaced with the ERR Cruise Commander M, it's a pretty easy swap and will solve your issue.  Obviously, I'd check and make sure the motor is good and it's leads are not shorted to the frame before replacing the electronics.

I'd probably recommend the ERR route and not going with another unsupported K-Line board.

I have a few K-Line locomotives, none have gone up in smoke.

B&O Bill,

  I think I can still smell the oder of the magic smoke. Yours was not the first and J daddy's will definitely not be the last even though the numbers are dwindling.

Bill

i had a friend of mine have problems before like this if it has a wired tether that was the issue with his, had to get a new one and it has operated fine ever since.

Ken

Ok, thanks for the input Here is a picture of the engine with the R2 board removed.

It looked fine.

now the aft board of that. The motor driver board looked and smelled burned.

Again, it is odd this board just toasted itself just sitting there? Never had one do this.

Notice how the black wire just melted on top of the board itself. What would cause this?

The motor was not binding and the throttle was never turned on.

Here is a picture of the connector I removed and the short was eliminated. All the locomotive lights came on. Is this main power supply?

I also notice in this picture the cruise switch wire has come loose. (This I believe was attached when I opened it).

 Below is another picture of the fried board

So reading over the post. I have a Lionel Union Pacific B unit powered which I will never use... cannot find the A-A units. Can I swap the motor driver board out of this unit and plug into this one? Its missing an R2 board anyway.

Will the K line R2 board be compatible? This later K line engine I believe had 100 speed steps... and ran awkwardly with a cab 2 throttle.

I am thinking since I am ordering from ERR just to upgrade both the R2/R4 and a new motor driver board with cruise.

Bill,

You have that right. The whole basement stunk of a burnt board. Even my hands and clothes...

So have you seen this on other K line engines? Did a board replacement nixs it?

thanks,

I haven't tried to reverse engineer this board but what is burnt might be connected to the motor speed sensor, not the motor itself. Maybe either a wire or IR LED shorted out on the speed sensor and took out the power supply on the motor driver??? 

Pete

I will check the speed sensor with a digital multi-meter.

John, just before the April meet at my house during final layout checkup, my K-Line Shay went up in smoke, literally.  One of the boards, stunk real bad.  Will have to open up outside.

Dan

I doubt I'd try to fix that board, IMO a replacement is called for.

yeah, last board I tried to repair it burnt the copper strips up so bad it warped the board and burned the copper strips right out of it.

So Dan, should I order two?

Odd thing is it does not look like a plug and play?

My board vrs ERR board... I feel like Greg Brady here buying his first car...

what are all these extra connections fur?

The 4 pin black molex connector is for track power (red-black) and motor power. The 4 pin white connector just gets swapped from the K-Line to Cruise M. I think there is direction information on that connector. Serial Data gets connected to the 10 pin white connector on the Cruise M and tied to serial out on the R2LC connector or spliced into the serial line to the tender connector. 

Takes only a little longer to do it than to type this post.

Pete

John, I also have a working K-Line K4.  Wouldn't hurt to order one.

In my shay this is the board that went.

The other boards appear fine.

Dan

That's a SERIOUS meltdown!   Looks like something bad happened at that connector.

Hmm yeah Dan, looks to be the same area of the board as mine. Did you find what the root cause was?

Seems that these boards may be pass their freshness date?

Well I learned a "cheap" lesson. No more K line engines or be prepared to upgrade the boards.

I sent a note to Ken at ERR. I will see which board will set me back the 85 dollars. Argh.

Gunrunnerjohn, I think the problem was below the connector and the flames came up and melted it.  There was nothing plugged into the connector.

Looks like I have 4 engines that could use the Cruise M in.  K-Line scale Hudson, K-4, and shay. Also, a Weaver 2-8-0 without cruise.

J Daddy / John I have no idea what the root cause was.  I was running it fine and it stopped and started smoking/stinking.

Dan

A little hard to tell from here, but in any case the result is the same, it's toast!

While on the subject of K-Line cruse, I have the K-Line Big Boy and Allegheny, both factory TMCC.  I know there is a cruse kit for them, but I haven't gotten them yet.  Do I need to have the motor from this kit to use the ERR cruse, or will it work without it?

I also have a K-Line GG1 with factory TMCC without cruse, nor was there a cruse kit for it.  Can I add cruse to it with the ERR kit?

Sinclair

Use the Cruise"M" in both to replace the motor driver. You don't have to change the motors. Check out the instructions on ERR web. Simple installation.

Bill

J Daddy, Trace those wires back to the mother board connector and read off what the functions are.  That may give a clue.  G

I had glanced at them, and it talked of the Allegheny with cruse.  Mine doesn't have it so I was confused.  But I reread it and it looks like you are removing the function of the K-Line special cruse motor by cutting a wire out, is that correct?

Correct