Help me Decide...Which N&W streamlined engine

@MrMuffin'sTrains  Those pictures is what got me in this quandary to start with!   Thanks for posting.

RJT posted:

Was on the 3rd Rail/Sunset Models website today it was showing the N&W K2 as sold out. 

Do an eBay search for 202631074881

turbgine posted:

If sound is important to you the Lionel "Hooter" whistle on their "J's" is the best in the industry. The older generic Railsounds and the MTH whistle do not even come close. The MTH probably smokes better and using the DCS remote is great, but for the sound you can't beat the Lionel J's.

The N&W J did not have a "Hooter" whistle! The Lionel N&W does not have a "Hooter" whistle either!
The "hooter' whistle is the freight whistle and is found on the Y & A class locos.

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Here are some pictures of the repainted and weathered J done by Harry.... I have had seven done so far, and the customers that received them have been very pleased. Lionel is giving us till the end of February to get any repaints paid for by them ordered. All that said, we have had customers that just wanted the weathering and not the repaint; and others that have been fine with them as they shipped. Sort of like pizza - individual tastes rule....

 

It is obvious to me like none of the stripes match up between the engine and tender, a problem that was addressed several years ago on factory paint. 
I sure am glad I didn't bite on this model. 

Big Jim posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Here are some pictures of the repainted and weathered J done by Harry.... I have had seven done so far, and the customers that received them have been very pleased. Lionel is giving us till the end of February to get any repaints paid for by them ordered. All that said, we have had customers that just wanted the weathering and not the repaint; and others that have been fine with them as they shipped. Sort of like pizza - individual tastes rule....

 

It is obvious to me like none of the stripes match up between the engine and tender, a problem that was addressed several years ago on factory paint. 
I sure am glad I didn't bite on this model. 

Agreed. 

J 611 posted:

Big Jim posted:

It is obvious to me like none of the stripes match up between the engine and tender, a problem that was addressed several years ago on factory paint. 
I sure am glad I didn't bite on this model. 

Agreed. 

FWIW, if you look closely at the photos. The front  tender truck is not all the way on the rails, and it also appears that Harrys display is either not level, and/ or sagging between sawhorses.

Perusing youtube videos of these new J's, the stripes look to be lined up. Of course that doesn't fix the incorrect color.

Wanted to bring this thread back alive about some of the finer details of the J.  Gilly answers my question about pilot wheels, but how about Trailing Truck and Tender side frames.  Specifically MTH has used two versions.

I am redoing a Williams N&W #611 J.  The Engines trail truck has the same side frame as the MTH PS-1 version of J and Class A.  The unshrouded also uses it.  Later PS-3 J shifted to a different side frame.  Was one early and the other late, or just wrong modeling on the early ones MTH did.

Tender trucks come in 2 versions.  Plain bearing, and the SKF bearing.  Same question?

The chassis picture shows TT side frame of Williams and early MTH PS-1. Was this ever used on real J.

The tender picture show SKF on left used at times by MTH, and the Williams version similar one also used by MTH.  MTH even in same release year used both versions, one for Timken side rods and the other for Plain side rods.

What's up?  Can the expert help school on this.  Thank you, G

@GGG posted:

Wanted to bring this thread back alive about some of the finer details of the J.  Gilly answers my question about pilot wheels, but how about Trailing Truck and Tender side frames.  Specifically MTH has used two versions.

I am redoing a Williams N&W #611 J.  The Engines trail truck has the same side frame as the MTH PS-1 version of J and Class A.  The unshrouded also uses it.  Later PS-3 J shifted to a different side frame.  Was one early and the other late, or just wrong modeling on the early ones MTH did.

Tender trucks come in 2 versions.  Plain bearing, and the SKF bearing.  Same question?

The chassis picture shows TT side frame of Williams and early MTH PS-1. Was this ever used on real J.

The tender picture show SKF on left used at times by MTH, and the Williams version similar one also used by MTH.  MTH even in same release year used both versions, one for Timken side rods and the other for Plain side rods.

What's up?  Can the expert help school on this.  Thank you, G

Both of the trailing trucks side frames on the Williams and early MTH J's are incorrect as they have an outside mounted brake cylinder. I swapped mine for a Lionel truck. I think that MTH finally changed over to a proper trailing truck in the later run, so, that part may be available???
The N&W used a different tender truck side frames on the last J's. I don't think that I have ever seen a model of the J tender with plain bearings being represented, only roller bearings.
I don't understand what you mean about "plain side rods". All of the models that I have seen represent roller bearing rods. Now, how they are made isn't always accurate, but, they aren't "plain" bearings.
You need to do your own research as trying to teach here using photos is very hard to do! Try searching the N&WHS archives, you can find the answers to a lot of your questions there. You may even consider joining.

Thanks for the info.  I have been doing some research.   Attached is the 2 tender side frame types MTH used alternatively on J and Class A.

As an example if you look at the 2015 Class A release. 8 models.  4 listed as Timken Side Rods, 4 no description. The Rods are different on the engine.  Same goes for the J over the years.  PS-1, 3V tether, 3V drawbar, PS-3.  Multiple options within a model year.

I have found that which tender side frame was used depended on whether it was Timken side rod model or not.  Both side frames used on different engine versions in the same year cataloged.  So that is what I am trying to understand.  I also assume as built in the 40/50 versus how rebuilt recently could be totally different too, effecting what MTH used on their productions.

Now that I know the outside brake cylinder Trail Trk side frame was never used tells me MTH just copied the Williams Model.  Where Williams got that side frame???  G

@GGG posted:

Same goes for the J over the years.  PS-1, 3V tether, 3V drawbar, PS-3.  Multiple options within a model year.

I am not sure what you are looking at. None of the J's had plain bearing rods. They all had roller bearing rods and if my memory serves me correctly, all of the scale size J models have roller bearing rods represented too. As built the J's had the double main rods, but, later on as on the 611 some acquired single main rods. If this is what you are speaking of, there is a big difference.

Roller Bearing Rods

Plain Bearing Rods (Very much different)

When a J was changed over to the single rods, not all were, each rod was individual. On the models, these single rods were sometimes (if not all) stamped as one long piece (much cheaper to do).

The truck side frames that you have pictured above are both roller bearing.

Ok, my bad calling them plain.  MTH calls out "Timken Side Rods", and then no description for the other type.  They are different looking.  So trying not to lose sight of the trees for the forest.  The question I had was on the tender side frames and why one was assigned to Timken side frame models, and the other to "no name" side rods models.  Is one more proto typical or time period specific? G

In your photo above:
The top frame is supposed to represent the Commonwealth T60C frame with Timken roller bearings, used on engines 600-610. It should have hump over the middle axle like the one below.
The bottom frame is supposed to represent the Commonwealth T95 frame with SKF roller bearings, used on engines 611-613.

Here are some drawing numbers that you can search for if you go to the NWHS archives: 1941 tender DS00047, T60C truck G38975, 1950 tender DS00050, T95 truck G42810.

I haven't read all the responses, so maybe someone else said this, but the streamlined K Mountain is less common and less-known than the J, so by definition is more interesting. Also, it will look better on curves.

I wish that the response to Lionel's cancelled streamlined brass hybrid K 4-8-2 a few years ago had had a better response. I was heading for one, then they pulled out the rug.