All Fixed Now! Problems with Lionel Pioneer Zephyr #6-51008

Hey Eric,

Yes, I have had the exploding magnet trick performed in quite a few of my older Lionel locomotives. Unfortunately, when the magnet broke they shorted/damaged the odyssey board. You will have to replace the board as well.

If this is not the case. You may want to look at the motor driver board.

I appreciate your input. Physically the odyssey board does not appear to be damaged, but who knows? In the past when I experienced the ring failure on other engines, replacement of the ring was the fix, but not this time. I don't know how to check the motor driver board and I welcome some additional suggestions from our resident experts. How about it fellows? Should I "roll the dice" and go to a ERR replacement?

Eric Hofberg

TCA,, LCCA

That ring has small dots on one side.  Those dots needs to be facing up away from the motor.

Marty,

There are no dots, but there is a swipe of red paint which I have facing down. I will attempt to remove the ring using a CA debonder plus acetone and reverse its position. I had assumed that the red paint was just to differentiate the different rings. Thank you for the information and I'll let you know if this is the fix.

Eric

Look closer at the ring.  I'm holding a replacement ring in my hand, there are four little circles on one side, those MUST face up.  If those magnets aren't there, it obviously wouldn't work.

Do the dots face up or down? It seems as if John and Marty are contradicting each other, unless I am not understanding what they are saying (a distinct possibility).

Marty is correct in this case, having a "senior moment".  The dots face up.  I fixed my original post so there'll be no mistake.

Fellows thanks for your advice, but unfortunately I now have a bigger problem. Any amount of CA debonder plus acetone would not allow me to remove the replacement ring and so I had to break it to remove the pieces. That just meant that I needed yet another ring and another order to Lionel, but unfortunately I have discovered that a motor brush is displaced (see pictures) and I see no fix for that. I obviously need the replacement motor part #650-1104-101, but Lionel lists it as "unavailable". I do wonder if the motor from the Legacy Zephyr would fit, in which case I would install an ERR cruise commander, lacking the rest of the Legacy system. Opinions welcome. BTW: I could not find any of the dots on the ring that I removed, only the red paint mark which I had facing down. I did see the dots on the original ring that had broken.

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

The important picture is details of the worm gear, that's going to determine if a motor will work in this application.

Royboy, both John and I stated they must face up.    Read my post again please.  I stated they must face up away from the motor.  I stated up then John stated up.  What am I missing????   We have both dealt with this situation many times and no way would we state anything but UP.  Those rings break easy.  Trying to salvage one already installed usually does not work.  I buy them 12 at a time so I always have them when I need them.

I own the Legacy Zephyr and love it.  It runs, smokes, and operates great.  The sounds are great with the two different horns controlled by the AUX-1 button.  I have the Lionel Lines with the blue stripe.

Marty, see my succeeding post, I corrected mine as I did indeed say down at first, Roy was correct in correcting me.   To avoid any confusion, I edited the original post to make it read correctly.

Got it John and Roy.  You would be the last guy to say down.  I have seen many people do their own repair and get that part wrong.

I plead old age.

As suggested, I have measured the worm gear and it is 7/32" diameter X 17/32" long. I have an MTH motor that has the same part type number, but unfortunately I do not possess a gear puller that would allow removal of the gear(s) and flywheels for the swap. Ideas???

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

Send the bad motor to Frank Timko's Repair depot; he will pull the gear off the bad motor and put it on an identical new motor; has done it for me; Falcon70

I spoke with Frank Timko last week and sent the motor to him. I am much relieved and looking forward to getting the Zephyr back on the rails.

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA 

I happy to report that thanks to Frank Timko supplying a replacement motor with my components changed over, my Pioneer Zephyr is once again streaking down the rails. Thank you Frank and a thanks to the other forum members for your input! 

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

That's great, and Frank did a fast turn-around on that motor!

Frank does good work.

Trusting fellow as well, I ordered the wheel puller, he said send me a check when you get it.  He won't go wrong trusting me, but I was a bit surprised as I haven't done business with him directly as of now.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Trusting fellow as well, I ordered the wheel puller, he said send me a check when you get it.  He won't go wrong trusting me, but I was a bit surprised as I haven't done business with him directly as of now.

John,

When you get it, can you post what one looks like? I assume this pulls the worm off the motor shaft...

Actually, Frank said it isn't really suited for pulling the worm gears as I stated.  I don't know if you can manage them with it, I'll know when I see it.  Marty has one, so he should know if it might work on a worm gear.