Help Needed with American Flyer Repair

The 21160 has a 2 position reverse unit in the engine. Lionel calls them E units. Putting power on the 2 pin connector does not bypass the reverse unit on this engine which is the most likely problem. Portlines Hobbies has the wiring diagram on their website. With your experience on Lionel the wiring diagram may give you the info you need to diagnose the problem. The motor is a universal 3 pole motor with a series field and armature, very simple. Hopefully there is not a broken wire in one of the windings. 

does the same method for testing the armature of a Lionel motor apply to the AF armature.  If I test the combinations of the three sections of the armature, should I get about 1-2 ohms?

thanks for the help

Somewhere in that range should be good, I do not have immediate access to my reference manuals to give you the exact number. As long as it is not infinite (open circuit) it should be ok. The most likely problem is in the reverse unit So try to clean the contacts. 

I will do that, thanks

If everything is dead, I suspect the wire is broken inside the insulation at the 2 pin plug. Pull the pin straight out of the socket and the check the wiring there.

The basic ac brush motor principals are the same.

Balance in your 3 ohm readings would be a good indicator of condition.        

You could jump power straight to the motors two brush holders to check the motor before you pull the armature, etc.(but is the arm. clean?)

Oops jump to the field too

ok... I checked the armature, I am getting 1.8 ohms balanced.  No Continuity to the shaft so I feel the armature is good.

I put longer springs in the brush tube, the ones that were  in were small and not putting pressure where needed.

This model has a switch wired in the boiler, I powered it up and I am getting a humming sound but no movement of the armature. 

It was suggested that there is a 2 position reversing unit in this model in the tender, but the wiring schematic does not show it.  In addition what is the best way to take the tender shell off without damage, all I see is four metal tabs.

Any help is appreciated

There is no reverse unit in a 21160. The switch you describe is the forward-reverse switch. Have you checked the field for continuity?

I located the reference book and see that the 21160 has no light, smoke/cho cho or reverse unit. I had it confused with the 21106. All these engines were uncatalogued. 

Since you get a humming sound there is apparently electrical continuity through the engine. Can you rotate the armature to see if there is any binding? 

there is no binding,

I know how to jump to test lionel motors directly, is it the same forAF?

Silly question I should know the answer to, how to test the field for continuity?

Thanks

Bill

It should be the same in theory as jumping a lionel postwar motor. A good field will measure 1 to 2 ohms with a meter. Isolate the field by removing the brushes. I believe the Forward/Reverse switch changes the polarity on the field. That could be another source of your problem.

Thanks I will try that, we actually have a big AF base in our area, we get them time to time and most I can repair.. This one is really stubborn, and I am not as proficient with these as I would like.

Ill keep updated

The field should measure 1.2 to 1.4 ohms per the reference manual. It is connected to the two center contacts of the slide switch. As mentioned above, take out the brushes to isolate the field. Since this motor has a series connected field and armature with no other features measure across the two power pins with an ohmmeter. If it reads near 3 ohms with the slide switch in first one position and then the other the motor should be ok. 

When you apply power, does the armature want to turn? If it spins freely without power then jams with power on and the armature want to turn, the top armature bearing could be suspect.

If you still need a wiring diagram I have one for the 21160 I can post for you.  Let me know.

Bill

It doesn't really matter to jump it; almost any ac brush motor diagram works.

Rob has a pullmore diagram here that illustrates how it should look.

https://ogrforum.com/t...otor?reply=lastreply 

  Jumping past the e-unit shouldn't be an issue unless the e-unit has a direct short.

I too need some info on repairing a 21160.  My problem is basic, but I'm not good at repairing anything.  Anyhow--real simple:  how does one reattach a wire at the plug which goes into the tender?  (I didn't want to initiate a new thread for such a simple question.)

Mark

I assume you just mean that one of the wires pulled out of the 2-prong plug.

Look here. Read note "B" beneath the diagram.

update,

I "hotwired" the motor which bypassed the two position switch, the motor spun.  When I apply power to the two pin plug the motor just hums but no movement.  SO can I blame the switch as the issue. Can I get that as a replacement part?  any more help would be appreciated

Port lines hobbies lists "switch: manual reverse" under parts, steamers, atlantics. $1.50. 

You could squirt some contact cleaner into the switch and move it back and forth several times while still wet. That might do the trick and it is certainly a lot easier than replacing the switch.

Yes, the switch is the issue.

Is the "hum" the motor itself? Or the e-unit coil?

The E-units tend to hum a little when energized.

 Look for missing contact fingers, (I think there are six), or crud/dry grease around them on the e unit drum.

Spray clean as Roy suggests.

The Port Lines item likely isn't a an e unit for $1.50. I suspect its a manual dpdt switch that can do the job.

I see rebuild kits on "that one auction site".

Just contact fingers on fiberboard. About $5-10

This engine has no reversing unit. The DPDT switch mounted in the rear of the cab is used to change engine direction. If a quick spray with contact cleaner does not cause the switch to work then a new one for $1.50 is the easiest fix since the motor works when the switch is bypassed. it still may be possible to repair the old switch but it may not be worth the trouble. 

I missed the "change" from e unit to no e unit.

For a buck fiddy I think its a no brainer. Shipping might be more

Does the motor hum in both positions on the switch? the switch may be OK, but wired wrong. Carefully trace the wiring on your engine with the 21160 wiring diagram on Port Line hobbies website.

the motor hums in both positions... i ordered a new switch... waiting for the mail... Ill update

usually those kind of engine switches can be taken apart very easily, there is usually metal tabs on all 4 corner of the switch you  just bend the tab back away from the wafer side of the switch where all the wires are soldered,you have to be carefully when you pull it apart as there are little copper spring to keep pressure on the 6 DPDT contact switch, you don't want to loose them , sometimes the copper springs loose there pressure and you can pull them out with you fingers or needle nose pliers, then reassemble and bend the metal tabs over the wafer again the then power up and try again. all the switch does is reverse the field coil in relation to the commuter to make the engine run in either direction.all the train ac motors work on that principal!

let me know if you need a sketch or drawing i put a picture in for you!

Alan

Craig Donath as far as your question it is very common on American Flyer s gauge engines the  the 2 or 4 wire s between the tender and locomotive do break and you can buy those harness's from ebay already made up. a lot of the  original harness's are a carbon based wire and are very flexible but break easily from flexing on the curves. just buy the 2 or 4 wires harness's off ebay they are already cut and made to install on the engine in the back of the cab and inside the tender, as long as you know how to solder you'll have no problem,. if you can find then let me know and I'll post the address on ebay for the harness's

Good luck

Alan

I actually didn't post a question. My post was in response to the question posted by markjs about (I assume) simply reattaching the wires to a late style 2-prong plug. The note in the Portlines link mentions how to make such a repair.