Help on NYC, S1, S2, S3 differences

Stanley,

If you have followed this accross, Lionel billed the 100 as an S1 and the 125 as an S2 rbut I could not find any reference to S2 in my books.

Found these photos of S1, S2, S3

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr085.htm

The S-1 class consisted of a single locomotive, originally #3400 later renumbered 3200, 1100 and then finally #100, as modeled by Lionel.

When this design proved successful, the Central ordered 34 more identical locos that became the class S-2.

All were originally equipped with two wheel lead and trail trucks, but these were changed to the 4-wheel trucks to improve tracking after a bad derailment.

The S-2 modeled by Lionel really differs from the S-1 only in that it has the later sans-serif lettering style and yellow steps and handrails.

There was also a class S-3 which had a slightly longer frame with more space between the lead/trails trucks and the rigid frame drivers. The extra length is evident in the form of small end platforms.

Info from Al Staufer's excellent book "New York Central's Later Power".

Jim

Thanks Road House Rat for the site url Nice place!

Jim,

Thanks for the clarification on the Lionel Models. I like the real 100 picture found on the site. I attached a copy.

I realize now that the Lionel 152 I had it my previous 'collector' days was really a darn good copy of the S1 with single axel front & rear trucks.

Regards All

Hugh

In case anyone missed it on the photo thread, this is the S motor rotting away in Albany.  I think this is the S1, originally number 6000, later 100. 

Wow!

Thanks,

Hugh

Posted from an email I got this morning from Bob Bruno.

Where in Albany?  I may have to make a pilgramage when the weather breaks...

They were here last time I checked (red oval). South of Albany off River Road (Bing maps -Bird's eye view). Very sad that no one seems willing to do anything about them.

Jim

Thanks, I'll have to check it out!

I'll let you know when Im going, maybe we'll meet for an espresso and a cannoli!

- Mario

PS-I think I'm having a problem with my signature...

Sounds good!

Jim

Here's another photo of that S-1 I found off the Net. Behind it is a rare T motor, too. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that these had been rescued, but I can't find anything to the effect. Sad, they were both a versatile type of engine that lasted into into the Penn Central era.

Those are the same 2 units as in Glenn's photo and in my aerial view. Sitting on an unprotected siding is better than the scrapper's torch, I guess, but the elements are taking their toll. I haven't heard of any progress on a true "rescue".

Jim

Here is a Bing areal map clearly showing the equipment.  Due to the hilly terrain, the best method of getting to the trains is to park in the factory and walk along the plant siding, then cut across the field (shown in red).  A short walk down the active Port of Albany line is required, so be careful.

The U25.  The rubber cables to the right are the power cables to the traction motors; looks like someone has been hard at work stripping the wiring from this poor guy.

The T motor.

Great stuff!

Just a couple of things.

1) In my reply to Jim I mentioned a 153 engine I once had in my collection. This should have been said as a 156 the predecesor to the 256.

2) In all this no one has mentioned the 'S3'. Anything to be said about that?

3) Does Al Stauffer's book have anything on that. BTW, back in the early 70's, I would always spend time with Al talking trains in the Blue Hall corner booth he always had. Is Al still with us?

Hugh

Hugh,

As a kid watching these engines do switching duty at the Mott Haven yard, I never realized that there was such a thing as an S-3. The end platforms would have been an obvious difference, but I don't ever remember being observant enough to spot the difference.

I discovered that class engine as an adult in the 1980s when I bought a brass HO model, and it turned out to be an S-3 with the end platforms.

Most Mott Haven photos show S-2s working the yard. Staufer mentions that the S-3s were the only S class engines to retain steam heat boilers to the end so were used in passenger service.

But, I never saw an S running through the Mott Haven yard. They would shuttle trains to and from the yard to Grand Central but never on through trains in the late 50s - early 60's when I did most of my train watching.

There was also a class S-2A which was slightly lighter, but not sure of any spotting differences.

According to the roster in Al's book, there were 1 - S-1; 32 - S-2s; 2 - S-2As; and 12 S-3s.

I haven't seen Al since he stopped going to York. Back when I was doing a little painting in acrylics, I would always stop by (in the purple hall at that time) to admire the paintings that Al and his son brought for exhibit.

Jim

I stand corrected on the S3 in the posts. It appears that the road rat gave us some pics in the link he provided to us.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr085.htm

I don't know why but I remember Al as always displaying the 'ultimate' in O brass.

You always describe your youth in area of NYC tracks. I only saw NH along Tremont Ave near Parkchester. Fun talking historical days. My TCA is 70-3150 and those were the days!

Hugh,

It's amazing how different neighborhoods in the Bronx of our youth were really close to each other, but seemed a world away at the time.

Parkchester to us was one of those exotic neighborhoods far far away only to be seen when visiting an aunt and uncle, while I'm sure the south Bronx and the Mott Haven yard seemed just as far away for you.

I regret, for example, not being able to see the last days of steam on the Putnam division or the New Haven Van Nest shops even though they were only short bus rides away from my neighborhood.

Good memories though of what I was able to see.

Jim

I wonder how these engines got there?

I believe they are still the property of the Mohawk and Hudson Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society. Work on proper preservation was derailed by a combination of club politics and lack of resources according to what I've heard.

They have been bounced around from one place to another near the Port of Albany - sometimes indoors, but now exposed to the elements. The S motor was displayed at the Altamont Fairgrounds outside Albany for a number of years.

Jim

I once worked with an older gentleman who worked for the NY Central before and after the Korean war. He describled some of his experiences related to driving the S type engine (Motor).   

One of his experiences was that sometimes it would either stall out or would not start so he had to go into the front compartment and wack some piece of electrical "stuff" with a 2 x 4 to fix the problem.

Bobby,

It's great talking to the fellows who ran these locomotives. I was asked to host a layout tour/open house as part of a recent New York Central Historical Society convention in Albany.

Many of those who visited my layout were former employees who operated the trains during those same years I was watching them as a teenager. I heard some amazing stories. I only wish I had been set up to record those conversations. Happily, many stayed way past the scheduled ending time for the tour as we just reminisced.

Jim

I wanted to go to NYCHS conference in Albany last year, but never made it...

Thanks,

Mario

Jim, On the Lionel models S1 and S2, the roof details are different.

Thanks, Chuck.  Never noticed that - I'll have to check it out.

Jim

Lionel NYC s2 # 125 prototype

No yellow  stairs or handrails

Jim,  I believe those two locomotives were used in the movie, "The House on Carroll Street", which came out on the late 80's.  They were used in scenes shot in GCT.

It was my understanding that an S motor was preserved in a museum. Is this not correct?

I picked up the lionel #100 (101 ? I am not at home to look) at York this past York. Thanks to all for posting so much information about the S motors.

Richard Gonzales