DCC will never be a player in 3 rail O gauge. That ship has long sailed past.
As I've stated before on numerous occasions.
The Lionel Legacy handheld is the ONLY control system where the "meat and potatoes" of train operation solely by feel due to the clever design of the various tactile controls.
Some folks say it's " big and clunky" but only once you realize the genius behind how it allows you to look at your trains when you run them can it really be appreciated.
I guess it's kinda like singing and playing harmonica and guitar at the same time.
I personally don't care to look at a handheld to find numbers to punch in to bring up sounds or features much less my phone screen,iPad etc.
I get plenty of screen time outside of the train room.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:<SNIP> BTW -- You're welcome to continue to try to convince the rest of us that Lionel needs to abandon TMCC and Legacy and switch to DCC, but it will not happen anytime soon, unless perhaps because the electronic components for it are no longer made.
Mike
Please note: I am NOT trying to convince any of the Legacy users to change ANYTHING -- just keep using and enjoying Legacy the SAME as always.
I'm just advocating some way to "force" Lionel to simply include the SAME DCC capability with their O gauge locos -- that they already include with their S and HO gauge locos -- which I'm pretty sure they could do with *no cost*. (Yes, a "pipe dream" for sure.)
This would allow the estimated 1 in 50 (estimate edited from 500 to 50) of us that want to, the option to run a Lionel 3-rail O-gauge loco on EITHER DCC or Legacy.
An Example - One Reason Why DCC Capability Is Desirable: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- The below "Chuggington Central RR" photo shows a 2-day-long public display I set up last November.
- When the kids push the "start" button, the NCE DCC 'Programmable Model Train Controller' automatically ran each of the 2 analog Chuggingtons (using DCC-controlled relays), then ran the MTH Proto-3 diesel in the center point-to-point and back. ( Youtube |Vimeo )
To my knowledge, there's no way to set up such a simple, automated display with Legacy or DCS; but you can with DCC -- by using a DCC 'Programmable Controller'.
It would useful to have the option of using these DCC Programmable Controllers with Lionel locos -- as well as MTH locos.
- Thus, I opine that someone such as the Original Poster (starting with a "clean slate") thinks they may EVER want to do some simple automatic control, that's another reason that they should consider DCC as an option.
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@James Ingram posted:Please note: I am NOT trying to convince any of the Legacy users to change ANYTHING -- just keep using and enjoying Legacy the SAME as always.
I'm just advocating some way to "force" Lionel to simply include the SAME DCC capability with their O gauge locos -- that they already include with their S and HO gauge locos -- which I'm pretty sure they could do with no cost. (Yes, a "pipe dream" for sure.)
This would allow the estimated 1 in 500 of us that want to, the option to run a Lionel 3-rail O-gauge loco on EITHER DCC or Legacy.
An Example - One Reason Why DCC Capability Is Desirable: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- The below "Chuggington Central RR" photo shows a 2-day-long public display I set up last November.
- When the kids push the "start" button, the NCE DCC 'Programmable Model Train Controller' automatically ran each of the 2 analog Chuggingtons (using DCC-controlled relays), then ran the MTH Proto-3 diesel in the center point-to-point and back. ( Youtube |Vimeo )
To my knowledge, there's no way to set up such a simple, automated display with Legacy or DCS; but you can with DCC -- by using a DCC 'Programmable Controller'.
It would useful to have the option of using these DCC Programmable Controllers with Lionel locos -- as well as MTH locos.
- Thus, I opine that someone such as the Original Poster (starting with a "clean slate") thinks they may EVER want to do some simple automatic control, that's another reason that they should consider DCC as an option.
You are suggesting Lionel add a feature to all their locomotives that is only used by 1 out every 500 of its customers?? So have 499 out of 500 of Lionel’s customers pay extra for a feature only used by 1 out of every 500?
@James Ingram posted:Please note: I am NOT trying to convince any of the Legacy users to change ANYTHING -- just keep using and enjoying Legacy the SAME as always.
I'm just advocating some way to "force" Lionel to simply include the SAME DCC capability with their O gauge locos -- that they already include with their S and HO gauge locos -- which I'm pretty sure they could do with *no cost*. (Yes, a "pipe dream" for sure.)
This would allow the estimated 1 in 50 (estimate edited from 500 to 50) of us that want to, the option to run a Lionel 3-rail O-gauge loco on EITHER DCC or Legacy.
First off, I doubt it's "free" to Lionel to add DCC. Also, you're not going to "force" Lionel to do anything, they're the 800 pound gorilla in the room right now. I also would have to say that your one in fifty estimate is probably off by a considerable margin. Since running TMCC/Legacy/DCS is incompatible with DCC on the same tracks, it's likely very few 3-rail folks actually go for DCC. I personally know of only one, and it's you. 
My long term involvement in OGauge included the usual: 3rail track, conventional control and TMCC. Recently, as part of my support work for a number of system suppliers, I was introduced to DCC. After carefully studying DCC and operating in this format in OGauge for some time, I have concluded that it is a well designed system concept with an enormous amount of useful operating features.
@BOB WALKER posted:My long term involvement in OGauge included the usual: 3rail track, conventional control and TMCC. Recently, as part of my support work for a number of system suppliers, I was introduced to DCC. After carefully studying DCC and operating in this format in OGauge for some time, I have concluded that it is a well designed system concept with an enormous amount of useful operating features.
But you are not saying it is better than Legacy and you are not saying that you are going to convert your locomotives to DCC. Or have you converted your locomotives to DCC?
@BOB WALKER posted:My long term involvement in OGauge included the usual: 3rail track, conventional control and TMCC. Recently, as part of my support work for a number of system suppliers, I was introduced to DCC. After carefully studying DCC and operating in this format in OGauge for some time, I have concluded that it is a well designed system concept with an enormous amount of useful operating features.
Mr. Walker - I disagree with you to some extent on the "well designed system concept" of DCC. There is clearly gaps in the design; the elephant in the room being two way communication. I know there is RailCom and the cut-outs that introduce the two way communication but it is such a horrible kludge. Even the electronics used to push/pull the RailCom signal during the cut-out has yet to being fully integrated and finalized. What would be nice at this point in history would be for the development of a DCC2 protocol.
Having said that, the customization/programming aspects of DCC are much more advanced than TMCC or DCS. The introduction of the LokSound 5 line from ESU really opens up the field. One of the biggest features is their superb software to customize your own sound experience and, essentially, build your own firmware. I have debated creating a discussion topic related to the fact that MTH made a grave error in not, at the very least, opening up their system for customizable sound. (If you see a MTH CSX ES44AC go flying through the air, it's mine.)
The other area that DCC needs to be cleaned up in is Consists. While they support consists, it is a graft onto the existing DCC protocol. This makes it clumsy none to say the least.
However, DCC does lend itself well to automation and the number of controllers available leaves no one wanting.
Anthony
I think DCC is getting far more air time on this thread than it deserves. I mean, is DCC really a realistic option for the OP? He was asking about what O gauge control system he should build he layout with. He isn’t going to do it with DCC.
@Madockawando posted:I think DCC is getting far more air time on this thread than it deserves. I mean, is DCC really a realistic option for the OP? He was asking about what O gauge control system he should build he layout with. He isn’t going to do it with DCC.
We all know where you stand nothing is better than Lionel and Legacy you have stated many times.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:We all know where you stand nothing is better than Lionel and Legacy you have stated many times.
Okay, am I wrong:?
The OP asked about a control system for his new layout. Is DCC a realistic option? Yes or no. If no, why are we talking about DCC? Lionel will never, ever install it in their locomotives. The MTH DCS company isn’t going to support it. I’m not sure what the point is and talking about it doesn’t answer the OP’s question.
I have no axe to grind against DCC, but for 3-rail O-gauge you give up an enormous amount of product to make that choice. If you're not planning on rolling your own when it comes to all the 3-rail locomotive electronics, then DCC simply isn't a smart choice. This is not a choice between the "best" and "worst" control systems for model trains, it's simply a matter of adjusting to the reality of the present day market.
I may be way off base, but it sure doesn't sound to me like Dave wants to start ripping the guts out of his Legacy locomotives and installing DCC!
Let's review the OP's desires and see if we can't adjust the recommendations to the reality of the commercial products available in the 3-rail world.
@davehall83 posted:Hello,
So i have a topic in another forum and we have decided on a layout but now the question is, what transformer and what type of control system for this layout. TMCC, Lionel Layout Control System, DCC, DCS?I also have seen people talk about rail sounds and things like that to get realistic effects from your trains. I know alot of loco's and diesels do this but is there any suggestions on that part , i know alot of times you want to wire things as you go because it may require a solder connection to the track or some type of sensor installed. I havent tried any of these things yet but there are so many options out there picking the right one or best one is always tricky
Heres a link to the track planning we came up with from doubledaz and others but suggested i start in this forum to figure out which way to go.
Since i havent done anything more than a conventional transformer in the past this is all new to me and what is the most current thing IE is lionel layout controls sytem on the ipad the best way to go and for power and all that?
Scarm drawing attached
@Madockawando posted:Okay, am I wrong:?
The OP asked about a control system for his new layout. Is DCC a realistic option? Yes or no. If no, why are we talking about DCC? Lionel will never, ever install it in their locomotives. The MTH DCS company isn’t going to support it. I’m not sure what the point is and talking about it doesn’t answer the OP’s question.
I am not taking sides I think this has been a very enlightening discussion. You have a clear defined side and nothing anyone can say or do will change it. MTH DCS company clearly already supports it because every PS 3 board has DCC!!!
The fact that this was posted to the Lionel TMCC , Legacy & ERR Forum is probably a good indication where the original poster is leaning. I don't see how DCC is an affordable and practical option in 3-rail for most folks.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:I am not taking sides I think this has been a very enlightening discussion. You have a clear defined side and nothing anyone can say or do will change it. MTH DCS company clearly already supports it because every PS 3 board has DCC!!!
My point has been simply that DCC is not a realistic option for the OP to build a layout with. Beyond that, I have made no recommendation to the OP on what system he should use. There really isn’t any point in talking about DCC. Do you use it? If MTH is so into DCC, why do they even bother to offer their own proprietary system? I suspect that the vast majority of MTH fans don’t bother with DCC either. So why should the OP even consider it?
"every PS 3 board has DCC!"
True, but there are some caveats. One is that you cannot operate MTH locos simultaneously on a layout with DCC and PS3. The two systems are not compatible. PS3 was designed to include DCC to appeal to the 2 rail O gauge hobbyist and the HO hobbyist (HO is no longer an MTH product line). And to be optimistic we are assuming that PS3 boards are now available and will be available for the long haul. That remains to be demonstrated for the future. Thus however much one might like and respect DCC's capabilities, they are not relevant to most people who own or will own three rail O gauge trains in the near future. That's the opinion of a fair number of experienced and/or technically expert hobbyists who have commented. Things could change, but I'm guessing DCC for three rail O gauge is only slightly more likely as a trend than that warm place freezing over. No offense intended to those who love DCC. I have a nice NCE system for N gauge trains myself.
@Madockawando posted:My point has been simply that DCC is not a realistic option for the OP to build a layout with. Beyond that, I have made no recommendation to the OP on what system he should use. There really isn’t any point in talking about DCC. Do you use it? If MTH is so into DCC, why do they even bother to offer their own proprietary system? I suspect that the vast majority of MTH fans don’t bother with DCC either. So why should the OP even consider it?
DCS came first so they have their own proprietary system for that very reason. But chose to add DCC with the HO line to help break into HO and the it became pat O gauge line and that where we 3/2 and Fixed pilot versions. I personally think HO was a mistake for MTH and they kill themselves in the G Scale market buy not making there system work LGB magnetic triggers and trying to stay proprietary. I too think DCC is unlikely to revolutionize O Gauge.
But you answers are always based on bias.
I do not use DCC because I am entrenched in DCS and Legacy systems do I wished I had some feature to build my own sound sets yes for both platforms.
I’m with RickO, I like Lionel Legacy, possibly get an extra Cab 1L remote, fun to run trains with friends. The KISS system, keep it simple. Check out Lionel’s new 2022 Signature Catalog soon, around January 19. Happy Railroading Everyone
@Landsteiner posted:"every PS 3 board has DCC!"
True, but there are some caveats. One is that you cannot operate MTH locos simultaneously on a layout with DCC and PS3. The two systems are not compatible. PS3 was designed to include DCC to appeal to the 2 rail O gauge hobbyist and the HO hobbyist (HO is no longer an MTH product line). And to be optimistic we are assuming that PS3 boards are now available and will be available for the long haul. That remains to be demonstrated for the future. Thus however much one might like and respect DCC's capabilities, they are not relevant to most people who own or will own three rail O gauge trains in the near future. That's the opinion of a fair number of experienced and/or technically expert hobbyists who have commented. Things could change, but I'm guessing DCC for three rail O gauge is only slightly more likely as a trend than that warm place freezing over. No offense intended to those who love DCC. I have a nice NCE system for N gauge trains myself.
Yeah I know this as I am certified ASC and I took the time to read every comment.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:DCS came first so they have their own proprietary system for that very reason. But chose to add DCC with the HO line to help break into HO and the it became pat O gauge line and that where we 3/2 and Fixed pilot versions. I personally think HO was a mistake for MTH and they kill themselves in the G Scale market buy not making there system work LGB magnetic triggers and trying to stay proprietary. I too think DCC is unlikely to revolutionize O Gauge.
But you answers are always based on bias.
I do not use DCC because I am entrenched in DCS and Legacy systems do I wished I had some feature to build my own sound sets yes for both platforms.
How is my contention that DCC is not a realistic option for three rail O gauge “biased”? From reading the comments here, I would say the majority of people in the thread agree with me that DCC is not realistic. I think I am in good company.
@Madockawando posted:How is my contention that DCC is not a realistic option for three rail O gauge “biased”? From reading the comments here, I would say the majority of people in the thread agree with me that DCC is not realistic. I think I am in good company.
It's not just this thread where your comments are biased.
In fact considering this guys asked for help and only a few people have been unbiased and given him useful and helpful information making a choice is why I usually limit post on here.
This place used to be fun anymore it's just like the same politics I have to listen too daily. 
DCC does not have any appreciable traction in the 3 rail O gauge world and therefore it really doesn't matter how it shapes up against the incumbents. Generally speaking, it would be an irresponsible recommendation for just about any realistic use case despite the fact that it can be done.
@bmoran4 posted:DCC does not have any appreciable traction in the 3 rail O gauge world and therefore it really doesn't matter how it shapes up against the incumbents. Generally speaking, it would be an irresponsible recommendation for just about any realistic use case despite the fact that it can be done.
Now if you could just convince all the DCC fans of that point...
@Shawn_Chronister posted:It's not just this thread where your comments are biased.
In fact considering this guys asked for help and only a few people have been unbiased and given him useful and helpful information making a choice is why I usually limit post on here.
This place used to be fun anymore it's just like the same politics I have to listen too daily.
LoL, do you really track my posts that closely? I think the vast majority of my posts recently have been on on the wish list for Lionel’s catalog. Oh, and I made a post about some new QNS&L ore cars offered by Pat’s trains. And I think I asked about how can we submit suggestions for MTH special freight car runs. Since you are tracking my posts, did I miss any? 😁
@Shawn_Chronister posted:It's not just this thread where your comments are biased.
In fact considering this guys asked for help and only a few people have been unbiased and given him useful and helpful information making a choice is why I usually limit post on here.
This place used to be fun anymore it's just like the same politics I have to listen too daily.
I'm going to chime in at this point and speak my mind.
1) @Shawn_Chronister brings up some valid points. Here we have someone new to forum posting for help (@author) and look what he is seeing. I wonder if we'll see any more posts from him?
2) I get a fair amount of emails from members who don't feel welcome on this forum. The most common phrase I hear is "if you've not been a member of this forum for 20 years, you're not welcome". I definitely felt that way when I first joined and I still do to some extent. But I just ignore the politics and the haters and carry on. I feel that there is a lot of push back to thinking outside of the box. It's a must adhere to the old standards sort of ball game. Well, I'm having none of it. <<Next comment withheld>>
3) I think an apology needs to be made to @BOB WALKER and @James Ingram from some of you.
Anthony
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Now if you could just convince all the DCC fans of that point...
If I had that kind of influence, maybe DCC would have a place in 3 rail O gauge 
@A. Wells posted:I'm going to chime in at this point and speak my mind.
1) @Shawn_Chronister brings up some valid points. Here we have someone new to forum posting for help (@author) and look what he is seeing. I wonder if we'll see any more posts from him?
2) I get a fair amount of emails from members who don't feel welcome on this forum. The most common phrase I hear is "if you've not been a member of this forum for 20 years, you're not welcome". I definitely felt that way when I first joined and I still do to some extent. But I just ignore the politics and the haters and carry on. I feel that there is a lot of push back to thinking outside of the box. It's a must adhere to the old standards sort of ball game. Well, I'm having none of it. <<Next comment withheld>>
3) I think an apology needs to be made to @BOB WALKER and @James Ingram from some of you.
Anthony
I'm curious Anthony... which system do you recommend for the OP? Legacy? DCS? or DCC? Or do you recommend that he start with transformer control first?
I took some time reading all of the posts and my thoughts are just this, i believe in an open forum and i believe any and all possibilities should always be considered which is why the forum exists right? I dont favor DCC, DCS, Legacy etc etc over any other system or each other. I just like to look at the pros and cons of each system and what it can do for me. I asked about all of them only because i want to know what the folks out here who have experienced personally using each type of system thinks about their systems and how those features may benefit my layout. I realize there is some folks who really feel one system is better than the other and there is some political heat over this as well. I am neutral to everything and always will be. I will consider DCC or any of the other systems if it can be used without ripping apart the locos i have from lionel. The thing is while ripping up lionel locos and making it work with DCC could be interesting, voiding a warranty from lionel on brand new expensive loco's is just not something that i am willing to do. For it to work for me i look at all of these aspects if i have to modify the train, if i have to do something rather unusual and how hard is it to get something like that to work. If it ends up being a science project that fails i definitely dont want anything to do with it because that can be one expensive science project.
I respect everyone's replies i am not biast or against anything said here, i feel that this is why the forum exists lets hear the good and bad thats why we are here on this forum. This allows me to make informed decisions and not waste my time and money trying to experiment with each system at home when i can ask and find out the pros and cons. Now that i have heard from everyone it sounds like the Lionel Layout Control System with Legacy and TMCC is the way to go based on what i have. I know alot of the lionchief stuff with the brand new lionel locos i have is what is preferred and the good thing is from what i hear it works with all that. I will have to ready what the difference is between legacy and TMCC and all that. But i need to start figuring out now how to wire all this up if i want to add it all. I prefer to just wire my layout and add all of them so i am not limited to what can be run on the layout IE wire it for legacy, TMCC and LCS. If i need to do DCS as well to run MTH stuff then fine too i just need to make sure the wires are done right first to make sure when i am laying track wiring is already being done as i go. Sounds like though maybe DCS should be off my list though with the state of MTH
After reading all the above alphabet soup I am staying with KISS and staying with Conventional Control and easily fixable and affordable post war trains.
Charlie
@davehall83 posted:<SNIP> I will consider DCC or any of the other systems if it can be used without ripping apart the locos i have from lionel. The thing is while ripping up lionel locos and making it work with DCC could be interesting, voiding a warranty from lionel on brand new expensive loco's is just not something that i am willing to do.>
You're making the exact point -- that I have been trying to make for this whole discussion.
I'm opining that the 800 pound gorilla is AFRAID to give a NEW user like Dave Hall the CHOICE of using DCC or Legacy to run his O-gauge Lionel locos -- so they're "TRAPPING" him into having to use their proprietary Legacy system.
Although apparently very few {edited} members of this Forum uses DCC to run 3-rail O-gauge -- if you did, you'd be part of the very LARGE group of people all around the world -- that use DCC to control their MANY brands of Z, N, HO, S, O-ga. 2-rail, and Largescale trains.
Whether your trains are 3-rail or 2-rail doesn't really matter for control purposes; you've got the same "+" and "-" rails for both.
Cost: ====
I still believe that Lionel could provide this DCC capability at essentially NO cost -- since it's already engineered for their HO and S locos.
I'm betting that it's a setting of a "bit" in some electronic chip in the Lionel decoder -- that controls whether or not the decoder will recognize DCC.
((I know others DISAGREE about this COST issue, and I don't know enough to prove my claim.))
Stay Calm: ====
- There's NO need for people who use and prefer Legacy or DCS to get UPSET about this discussion.
- To paraphrase former Pres. Barack Obama, "If you like the control system you've got, you can KEEP the control system you've got."
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@James Ingram posted:You're making the exact point -- that I have been trying to make for this whole discussion.
I'm opining that the 800 pound gorilla is AFRAID to give a NEW user like Dave Hall the CHOICE of using DCC or Legacy to run his O-gauge Lionel locos -- so they're "TRAPPING" him into having to use their proprietary Legacy system.
Although apparently almost nobody in this Forum uses DCC to run 3-rail O-gauge -- if you did, you'd be part of the very LARGE group of people all around the world -- that use DCC to control their MANY brands of Z, N, HO, S, O-ga. 2-rail, and Largescale trains.
James,
In regards to "Although apparently almost nobody in this Forum uses DCC...", there were a few members who made replies to this topic (in favor of Legacy none the less) who in fact do use DCC with 0-gauge! Don't believe me??? check out the "DCC: 2-rail or 3-rail" topic.
At this point, after this "distgussion", I'm in favor of Dave building his own control system.
Also, I'm still buying MTH HO locomotives. That way I can run my test bed with my only TIU but switch to DCC when I buy my ESU Controller in the near future.
And, in all honesty, I loathe the way DCC switches the voltage back and forth between the rails. I mean, what did the voltage do to DCC to deserve that? Of course I plan to do something about that.
Regarding 800 pound gorillas...well, let's just say I used the "Block Member" feature for the first time last night. I suspect I'll be using it again.
Anthony
The idea that Lionel is "afraid" of letting people use DCC is rather amusing to say the least. DCC, as least as far as O gauge 3 rail, is a very small niche that the vast majority of 3 railers don't care about, don't want, don't use and at this point won't switch over to under any circumstances. DCC is certainly not a first control system for a newcomer to build his layout around.
I would recommend that DCC advocates for three rail start a new thread and present all the reasons why everyone should make DCC their operating system. Discussing it here really isn't presenting realistic options for the OP.
I would find that thread very interesting myself.
Is there a way i can wire my layout for all of them so i can run DCC , DCS, TMCC, Legacy and other lionel stuff? That way i can get the wire ready so i can essentially tap into all the wiring at once by doing some splices and just turn on the controls i need at the current time IE i run something that will work with DCC then i use that. Or maybe i just have DCC does some layout animations or controls or sounds while running LCS etc?
Strategic use use rotary switches comes to mind...
It isn't an emotional preference for tmcc or legacy, it is the hard fact the on board electronics that plat nicely with tmcc and legacy dont play with dcc. Why would i want to gut all of my locomotives to switch? I see no value at all. Ill stick with the lionel platform, easy set up, easy to upgrade conventional locomotives and a wide selection of locomotives. Off topic but i wonder why atlas decided to shift to dcs, my existing atlas locos that are tmcc are among my favorites. Im sure im not alone in my resistance to buying multiple control systems.
This has been discussed ad nauseum, but here goes: Most of my locos are MTH so naturally I use DCS. I also have a smattering of Weaver, Lionel, and Atlas locos, so I use TMCC via the cable plugged into my TIU. It allows me to run all of my engines, and it’s worked for me for decades. The guys who originally designed DCS were geniuses, IMHO.
@davehall83 posted:Is there a way i can wire my layout for all of them so i can run DCC , DCS, TMCC, Legacy and other lionel stuff? That way i can get the wire ready so i can essentially tap into all the wiring at once by doing some splices and just turn on the controls i need at the current time IE i run something that will work with DCC then i use that. Or maybe i just have DCC does some layout animations or controls or sounds while running LCS etc?
If you wire your layout to run DCS you will be able to run TMCC no problem. AFAIK DCC will interfere with the other two systems.
When MTH was going full steam the question was which trains do you prefer, then go with that manufacturers control system. Now that decision has been clouded with uncertainty with changes coming rapidly whether its due to technology or supply issues.
I don’t envy your position.
Pete
@davehall83 posted:Is there a way i can wire my layout for all of them so i can run DCC , DCS, TMCC, Legacy and other lionel stuff? That way i can get the wire ready so i can essentially tap into all the wiring at once by doing some splices and just turn on the controls i need at the current time IE i run something that will work with DCC then i use that. Or maybe i just have DCC does some layout animations or controls or sounds while running LCS etc?
Hi Dave, if I may make a suggestion. What you are proposing sounds like you are adding multiple layers of complexity to your layout. The more complex it is, the more frustrating and unreliable it can become. If you enjoy spending more time trouble shooting than running trains then well and good. But speaking for myself, I chose my control system because it's simple, reliable, and has a wide variety of locomotives available.
While I will not tell you what control system to use, I do suggest that you use a similar criteria when selecting yours. Above all else, don't feel any pressure from anyone to select multiple control systems just to make the various factions here happy. Select the one that is going to make YOU happy: Finding one that is simple, reliable and lots of locomotives to chose from is where I would start!
@necrails posted:It isn't an emotional preference for tmcc or legacy, it is the hard fact the on board electronics that plat nicely with tmcc and legacy dont play with dcc. Why would i want to gut all of my locomotives to switch?
People do. In fact a surprising number do a swap out.
And It certainly is emotional. Within reason DCC, TMCC/Legacy and DCS all do the same thing from a technical perspective. After you've chosen one of them there is no technical need to have it "play nicely" with another one. It's a "nice to have" not a "gotta have". This is a marketing challenge for the manufacturers of the individual systems, not a technical one, for them or for you. Therefore the choice between the three is largely, but not completely, an emotional one.
Yes, you can argue about a few technical features, but by-and-large there is little technical difference between them -- except to the kind of folks we usually call rivet counters.
Mike
@davehall83 posted:Is there a way i can wire my layout for all of them so i can run DCC , DCS, TMCC, Legacy and other lionel stuff? That way i can get the wire ready so i can essentially tap into all the wiring at once by doing some splices and just turn on the controls i need at the current time IE i run something that will work with DCC then i use that. Or maybe i just have DCC does some layout animations or controls or sounds while running LCS etc?
Dave,
The idea that some bit somewhere can be flipped to enable Lionel engines to run DCC is amusing but highly unlikely. Real companies don't expend engineering capital and manufacturing funds to build things they may never need or use - the accountants see to that.
DCC is a non-starter in the 3-rail world that you can safely ignore. Period.
As for wiring to meet control system requirements, there are 2 options:
- Star or Home-Run wiring: This involves a pair of wires from the transformer to regional pairs of terminal strips. Feeder wire pairs go from the terminal strips to the track. That entire segment of track is electrically isolated (center pin) from the rest of the layout. In its early years, star-pattern or home run wiring was recommended for DCS. That may still be true, I don't know.
- Bus wiring: This involves a pair of wires (the bus) running along the length of the layout with feeder pairs going to the track at regular intervals.
If you want to run DCS in the future, I would recommend home-run wiring (consult the DCS "brain trust" over on that sub-forum for the current thinking). TMCC/Legacy will work with either bus or star wiring.
George
