Help please 22.5 Ross Crossing and DZ1008A

The relay runs off of a DZ switch machine.

And the DZ is mounted underneath and triggered by an isolated ground rail section on a track leading into cross over?    Do I have the idea?

johnshorse posted:

And the DZ is mounted underneath and triggered by an isolated ground rail section on a track leading into cross over?    Do I have the idea?

Yes. You'll need a total of four isolated sections.

Here's the Wiring Diagram from the Ross website. The DZ1000 diagram anti-derailing can be used to automatically activate it. I did one on my layout in conjunction with an 11 degree switch. Wiring it was by no means the most enjoyable experience of 2018, but I survived and it works like a champ.

Triple check everything before you attach the adjoining track. It is even less fun if you have to take it back apart again, or again.

Isn't the center metal piece of the crossing hot ?

clem k posted:

Isn't the center metal piece of the crossing hot ?

Yes it is. What you're switching are the "1s" and "2s" on the wiring diagram. Without the relay, the center roller will short between the center diamond and the adjacent "1s" and "2s".

On my crossing the outside rails of the diamond is one piece of Delrin. On my one crossing I just had to make sure the center metal piece was getting power. However my crossing must be smaller. 

Clem, 

Are you sure that's a 22.5 degree crossover? It looks more like a 45 degree. Just asking....

It's probably a 45

johnshorse posted:

I am getting old.  I am having the hardest time grasping the wiring and hook up of the 22.5 degree crossing and the use of the DZ 1008A relay.  Do I buy an additional switch machine from Z Stuff to mount under the layout to control relay?  What does the switch machine do? Do I use an isolated ground rail block going into the 22.5 crossover to trigger the switch machine and thus the relay?  I have a good knowledge of electronics but this one is really foggy to me.  Any help treasured.

John Sherwood

Falcon, CO

Are you sure you need it? You can solder the wires to those rails if you like and leave them dangling under the layout. Run some equipment and verify what, if anything, stops. You will need some length of track to trip the relay consistently each time and if a train is parked on it the relay won't trip for the crossing direction of travel.

We did ours and the Z Stuff relay constantly buzzed loudly. Finally cut the leads and discovered all our equipment makes it thru anyway.

I did as stated above, I attached the wires to the rails, and right now they are just hanging under my layout.  Mine are from the double crossover.  When I talked to Steve, that is what he recommended.  If I ever need them, they are there and I don't have to rip anything out.  If I never need them, oh well.

I use those relays to change my Lionel Dwarf signal, based on the DZ2500 switch machine position.  I don't hear anything, but it is a different application.

The relays made noise from the minute the power came, two of them hummed and one buzzed so loud for 30 seconds you couldn't talk near it. The DZ 2500's don't always throw completely and the relay then causes short circuits when trains run on the double crossover. We just cut all the relays out.

I am using a DZ1000 wired to a DZ1008. Since I have never used the DZ2500, I have nothing to add there. As for my personal layout, small switchers would stall on the crossover without the relay. 

The DZ1000 powers the coils in the DZ1008. There are end of travel limit switches that turn the power to the relay off after the DZ1000 has switched position. 

Gilly@N&W posted:

I am using a DZ1000 wired to a DZ1008. Since I have never used the DZ2500, I have nothing to add there. As for my personal layout, small switchers would stall on the crossover without the relay. 

Is it the pick up or the increased common? A switcher with rubber tires has 4 steel wheels and when the truck is on the crossing only one axle making contact.

johnshorse posted:

I am getting old.  I am having the hardest time grasping the wiring and hook up of the 22.5 degree crossing and the use of the DZ 1008A relay.  Do I buy an additional switch machine from Z Stuff to mount under the layout to control relay?  What does the switch machine do? Do I use an isolated ground rail block going into the 22.5 crossover to trigger the switch machine and thus the relay?  I have a good knowledge of electronics but this one is really foggy to me.  Any help treasured.

John Sherwood

Falcon, CO

I suppose that the questions are :

What are you trying to do? 

Are Line A and Line B separate power sources?

Do you have engines with closely spaced roller pickups that will lose power? If no, then there is no need to put in an automatic relay.

If yes, you do need a DZ1000 switch machine and a DZ1008 relay to automate powering the rails.

It's all explained in the Ross wiring diagram attached.

BobbyD posted:

Gilly@N&W posted:

I am using a DZ1000 wired to a DZ1008. Since I have never used the DZ2500, I have nothing to add there. As for my personal layout, small switchers would stall on the crossover without the relay. 

Is it the pick up or the increased common? A switcher with rubber tires has 4 steel wheels and when the truck is on the crossing only one axle making contact.

Since I'm using the relay to switch the common on the outer rails (and this fixed the problem), on my layout it was a wheel "issue" and not a pickup issue.