UPDATED: Help With Legacy 990 Set Software Upgrade

1.0 has to go back to Lionel to be upgraded. After past 1.0 the user can do it. Call Lionel in the morning and see if hey are still doing it.

I'm on 1.52 also.  Can I jump to the latest release?  Rod is running 1.52 and looks like planning to stay there.  Is there value in going to a later release.  What release will the Base 3 require?

Bill

@ogaugenut posted:

I'm on 1.52 also.  Can I jump to the latest release?  Rod is running 1.52 and looks like planning to stay there.  Is there value in going to a later release.  What release will the Base 3 require?

Bill

Bill, I later downloaded V1.60 but decided it did not offer anything needed. For sure there are subsequent later versions since then but V1.52 has operated flawlessly for several years running.

Rod

@ogaugenut posted:

I'm on 1.52 also.  Can I jump to the latest release?  Rod is running 1.52 and looks like planning to stay there.  Is there value in going to a later release.  What release will the Base 3 require?

Bill

The Cab2 should have 1.74 to work best with Base3.  1.60 is the latest Legacy Base software.

You can go from 1.52 straight up.

@MartyE posted:

1.0 has to go back to Lionel to be upgraded. After past 1.0 the user can do it. Call Lionel in the morning and see if hey are still doing it.

Marty thanks I will check with Lionel service tomorrow. Does it make any difference if I already tried to upgrade the cab2 to V1.52, which of course did not work? then I read the notes and discovered the limitations of V1.0

Rod

I've been running 1.60 since it came out, I have no issues crop up, so I don't see any downside to upgrading to the latest versions.

Just to chime in, I too had a 990 Ver 1.0, (circa 2007).  It had to go to Lionel to be upgraded to ver 1.60.  Apparently the base must be at least ver 1.3 then it can be upgraded  beyond that yourself.  Additionally, Lionel also did some hardware upgrades to the base. Something to do with adding/changing internal fuse & overheat protection.  This was all done for free except as a fellow Canadian I had to pay for the shipping to them, Lionel paid for the return shipping.  Hope this helps.

Ric

@Justaguy posted:

Just to chime in, I too had a 990 Ver 1.0, (circa 2007).  It had to go to Lionel to be upgraded to ver 1.60.  Apparently the base must be at least ver 1.3 then it can be upgraded  beyond that yourself.  Additionally, Lionel also did some hardware upgrades to the base. Something to do with adding/changing internal fuse & overheat protection.  This was all done for free except as a fellow Canadian I had to pay for the shipping to them, Lionel paid for the return shipping.  Hope this helps.

Ric

Actually, the base only has to be a 1.20 before it can be field upgraded.  The difference is 1.3 was the first version that could write black modules, but you could take an existing upgrade module and upgrade the 1.2 version.

Thanks grj and Ric for that info; very helpful. How long ago was that you had yours upgraded Ric? Recently?

Rod

Well good news from Lionel! The first thing the young lady said was Lionel does not service #990 Legacy sets anymore, which I expected. I explained to her it works fine, no service needed, just need the V1.0 software upgraded since it is not user upgradeable. She checked with the service manager, and then said no problem, send it in. a few seconds later I had my RA number, so it will go out tomorrow. All is well.

Good news Rod, I wondered if they'd at least do that.

@Rod Stewart posted:

Well good news from Lionel! The first thing the young lady said was Lionel does not service #990 Legacy sets anymore, which I expected. I explained to her it works fine, no service needed, just need the V1.0 software upgraded since it is not user upgradeable. She checked with the service manager, and then said no problem, send it in. a few seconds later I had my RA number, so it will go out tomorrow. All is well.

That is good news.  I'm surprised in the last few months how many systems showed up with 1.0.

@MartyE posted:

...  I'm surprised in the last few months how many systems showed up with 1.0.

Goes to show how many items are bought and then never used.  I'm constantly amazed by the amount of new old stock that's for sale.

Although I don't buy with the intent to hold an item for future appreciation in value, I've been guilty of not getting stuff out of the box.  As issues with quality and zinc pest have come to light, I get everything out of the box for examination and testing as quickly as possible.

@MartyE posted:

That is good news.  I'm surprised in the last few months how many systems showed up with 1.0.

One factor may be there are no new 990 sets being made, and there never will be. So a lot of unused or little used sets are coming out of the woodwork. This set I got was used a little early on, but the owner moved and tore the layout down, and did not build a new one I guess. So it has sat in the box for at least a decade, or maybe longer. It shows very little sign of use, in fact it still had the protective plastic cover over the number pad screen!

The batteries were left in the cab 2, so it had some leakage and corrosion. This cleaned up nicely; I have seen much worse. Overall though it is very nice and I am very happy that it came my way!

Rod

With no more repairs to 990’s, my mind says all those 1000 dollar + 990 sets are on borrowed time,…….With zero support, and even more zero parts, use them till they croak and toss them,……that’s the sad reality ……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

With no more repairs to 990’s, my mind says all those 1000 dollar + 990 sets are on borrowed time,…….With zero support, and even more zero parts, use them till they croak and toss them,……that’s the sad reality ……

Pat

I hear you Pat. Fortunately most 990’s seem to be quite robust and operate pretty well. My original set circca 2012 has worked flawlessly for many years, though now the handheld seems to be getting kinda flakey. If Lionel is going to completely abandon this product you would think they would at least set up with an outsource company to take over parts and service for their past customers. Its not like they are going to lose any business in doing this, well save for some who will decide to jump into Base 3 promptly when their 990 bites the dust I guess.

Hey, maybe they are just waiting for someone to approach them??

Rod

" If Lionel is going to completely abandon this product you would think they would at least set up with an outsource company to take over parts and service for their past customers. "

I thought the problem is the unavailability of exact replacement parts, and the lack of an obvious substitution for the parts no longer available?  If that's the case, those of us with Legacy and cab-2 equipment are just out of luck if we are not extremely creative and knowledgeable.  I suppose there may be a few individuals with the skill and knowledge to offer such services, but they haven't yet made themselves known and I suspect the costs will be substantial.  Probably just easier and cheaper to buy a Base 3 and a cab-1L?

Personally, I have my first 990 set I purchased new back in about 2011 as well as a backup set I purchased on Lionel's last run of them around 2017-18ish.  I have only had one problem with the 2011 set that necessitated a trip to Lionel for service: I left the remote on the base charger plugged in overnight by mistake.  Something went bad in the base as it was dead in the morning.  Lionel service explained that there was some component in the charging circuit in the earlier Legacy Bases that could go bad and cause the whole unit to quit working.  They replaced it with the updated part and I was on my way.

I would strongly recommend then for anyone with a 990 of any year and especially an earlier release that they want to keep and enjoy to use regular AA batteries and not use the charging circuit (and be sure to turn off the charger switch on the bottom of the Base, too).  These appear to be very robust units and should last a long time if cared for, but the charger seems to be a weak point.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Lionel service explained that there was some component in the charging circuit in the earlier Legacy Bases that could go bad and cause the whole unit to quit working.  They replaced it with the updated part and I was on my way.

I would strongly recommend then for anyone with a 990 of any year and especially an earlier release that they want to keep and enjoy to use regular AA batteries and not use the charging circuit (and be sure to turn off the charger switch on the bottom of the Base, too).  These appear to be very robust units and should last a long time if cared for, but the charger seems to be a weak point.

I recall there was a problem with the charging circuit on the very first run bases, and you could send the base to Lionel for repair at no cost. But I thought that by 2011 this was no longer an issue, but who knows? My first set came with V1.2 software which I think is consistent with 2011-2012 production, but others here may know better.

Regardless I now run that set with alkaline batteries and the charger shut off as you suggest, and for the same reasons! Also the base power adapter is switched on/off with other layout power at a main power bar, so as long as I remember to shut that off after running each time, it should be fine. I hope.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

I recall there was a problem with the charging circuit on the very first run bases, and you could send the base to Lionel for repair at no cost. But I thought that by 2011 this was no longer an issue, but who knows? My first set came with V1.2 software which I think is consistent with 2011-2012 production, but others here may know better.

Regardless I now run that set with alkaline batteries and the charger shut off as you suggest, and for the same reasons! Also the base power adapter is switched on/off with other layout power at a main power bar, so as long as I remember to shut that off after running each time, it should be fine. I hope.

Rod

I know, I did hear of serious issues with the very early runs, but I don't know.  That's what they told me...oh well.

I think if you take care of your set like you suggest, it should last a long time.  It seems like when I hear of issues with these they are either (usually) charging-related or, less common, "it doesn't work and I don't know the history on it", "I dropped it and now it won't turn on" or even "I dropped it in water and now it won't turn on".  Lest we not forget there are plenty, if not the solid majority of TMCC command sets from the 90's that are still going strong.  Even if you run into a problem with the Legacy Base, you can always still run the Cab-2 with the new Base 3.

@Rod Stewart posted:

I recall there was a problem with the charging circuit on the very first run bases, and you could send the base to Lionel for repair at no cost. But I thought that by 2011 this was no longer an issue, but who knows? My first set came with V1.2 software which I think is consistent with 2011-2012 production, but others here may know better.

I bought one of the 2011 production and it had the charging circuit issue.  I sent it in for the fix, but I ended up using the separate #993 charging base to charge them, the Legacy command base doesn't seem to hold the remote in all that well, maybe someone can explain that.

So Lionel does not service any parts of the #990 set? I only ask because my Cab2 is having a problem with the backlighting all of the sudden. TIA.

@ConrailFan posted:

So Lionel does not service any parts of the #990 set? I only ask because my Cab2 is having a problem with the backlighting all of the sudden. TIA.

I believe Lionel is still fixing the CAB2, just not the command base.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I believe Lionel is still fixing the CAB2, just not the command base.

John I hope you are right. Yesterday I was told that Lionel is not servicing 990 sets anymore; I took that to mean both base and/or handheld. It would be nice if they are servicing the handheld at least, even its only to the extent they have spare parts to do so.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I bought one of the 2011 production and it had the charging circuit issue.  I sent it in for the fix, but I ended up using the separate #993 charging base to charge them, the Legacy command base doesn't seem to hold the remote in all that well, maybe someone can explain that.

I always thought it was odd that the command base has slotted holes in the back, presumably so you can mount it on an inclined or vertical surface. But if mounted vertically the handheld is leaning forward at the top, and there is just no way it would stay put. Kind of weird. An inclined surface such as a control panel say, would work fine I think......

@Rod Stewart posted:

I always thought it was odd that the command base has slotted holes in the back, presumably so you can mount it on an inclined or vertical surface. But if mounted vertically the handheld is leaning forward at the top, and there is just no way it would stay put. Kind of weird. An inclined surface such as a control panel say, would work fine I think......

Where my command base is located, I had no desire to leave a remote in it anyway, it's in the center of the layout down near floor level!  However, I wanted it with all the other power & control components.

@Rod Stewart posted:

I hear you Pat. Fortunately most 990’s seem to be quite robust and operate pretty well. My original set circca 2012 has worked flawlessly for many years, though now the handheld seems to be getting kinda flakey. If Lionel is going to completely abandon this product you would think they would at least set up with an outsource company to take over parts and service for their past customers. Its not like they are going to lose any business in doing this, well save for some who will decide to jump into Base 3 promptly when their 990 bites the dust I guess.

Hey, maybe they are just waiting for someone to approach them??

Rod

Mine had been good for quite a long time, then the top row soft keys got flaky, …..I sent it back to the orange box people last year and they said it was fixed, ….they also updated mine, which I thought was a nice touch,…the lady that did mine was very nice on the phone, and I told her the issue, …..it was fine for a while, then went back to being flaky on the soft keys,……I’ll just keep on trucking till it croaks, then decide what route to go, ……I had asked on another thread whether or not the base 3 and the app would be a good solution for my railroad ( mostly TMCC, PS2 & 3 with a Legacy engine here & there ) but I think I might’ve overstepped the bounds of the thread,….probably doing so here too,…..🫣

Pat

@Rod Stewart posted:

I always thought it was odd that the command base has slotted holes in the back, presumably so you can mount it on an inclined or vertical surface. But if mounted vertically the handheld is leaning forward at the top, and there is just no way it would stay put. Kind of weird. An inclined surface such as a control panel say, would work fine I think......

Maybe it was someone's way of saying "You really don't want to use the built in charger"

@harmonyards posted:

Mine had been good for quite a long time, then the top row soft keys got flaky, …..I sent it back to the orange box people last year and they said it was fixed, ….they also updated mine, which I thought was a nice touch,…the lady that did mine was very nice on the phone, and I told her the issue, …..it was fine for a while, then went back to being flaky on the soft keys,……

I have fixed up a couple of TMCC cab1’s that got iffy with the buttons, typically the whistle and direction buttons, which I guess see the most use. Its just a simple matter of cleaning the contacts where the pushpad buttons make contact, with IPA or anything suitable. I wonder if the cab 2 setup is similar? never had to do one.

Rod

The rubber membrane push buttons that contact the PCB can also be renewed using a keypad repair kit, it's a carbon infused paint that goes on the rubber membrane.

John, good info; thanks for that!

UPDATE: I got word on July 16th that my cab2 and base2 had been recieved at Lionel. Today I got word that the base and remote have both been upgraded to 1.60 and 1.74 respectively! Yahoo. Very fast turnaround; less than a week. Sounds like it should get shipped back pretty quick.

@Rod Stewart posted:

UPDATE: I got word on July 16th that my cab2 and base2 had been recieved at Lionel. Today I got word that the base and remote have both been upgraded to 1.60 and 1.74 respectively! Yahoo. Very fast turnaround; less than a week. Sounds like it should get shipped back pretty quick.

That's great news Rod.  Kudos to Lionel for supporting these best they can.

Agreed Marty, I am very thankful that they were able to do this. Anyone still running version 1.0 or 1.1 in their Cab2/Base2 would be well advised to get an RA and send them in for upgrade ASAP while Lonel are still doing this.

Rod

Cool Rod, take good care of it, it's a collector's item.

UPDATE: Got the repaired Cab2/Base2 back yesterday, 22 days after shipping it out to Lionel! Can't beat that. Yay! And they seem to work fine with V1.74/1.60 respectively. I was a little worried because it looked like the box had been run over by a piece of earth moving equipment; badly flattened. But the Cab2/Base2 survived nicely. The repair technician indicated that she also replaced the Cab2 board for whatever reason. So all is well, a big thanks to Lionel!

I also found that the repaired Cab2 with 1.74 seems to be able to find my original base with 1.52 . Not sure if trains will run successfully yet, time will tell. If not I will upgrade the originals to 1.74/1.60 anyway and all should be well.

Rod

Glad Lionel stood behind this older product that had known defects when it was released.

They did the same for my v1.0 990 set about two years ago.

It would be really nice if Lionel would publish the details of the charging circuit fix and the secret to upgrading from version 1.0/1.1 to 1.2 and higher if they stop fixing them in the future.

Also, while I've never looked inside a 990 base or CAB2 remote, I wonder if there are any capacitors in there that we should inspect occasionally to keep these doggies running. They're from an era where numerous "bad batches" of caps came out of Chinese factories which have doomed many devices to premature failure.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure as the saying goes.