Help With Legacy Stationsounds Diner Car

How is it programmed into Cab 2?  Should be

type-passenger

control-LEG

Sounds-LRS

Also make sure the Run/PGM switch is back in run

just a few things to check. 

Thank you Marty - Checked the box on all those settings.  It's ironic because the 1.60 upgrade provides support for the Stationsounds Diner cars.  Not sure what "support" means but it had the opposite effect for me.  Is it possible that because I upgraded from 1.52 to 1.54 and then 1.60 it produced a negative effect?  Is it possible to go back to 1.52? 

I have 1.6 and 1.61 and mine works fine.  

A couple more things to try...

Did you try raising the volume via Cab2 as well as check the physical pot?

Try both raising the volume control by pushing volume up and then AUX1 volume up.

When you first address the car, do you have the option of the start up screen like an engine?  Try pushing that before you do anything else.  Again trying this from memory...

Last thing to try right now is the little controls with the speakers.  Try both of these.  Without a car in front of me I can't remember

 which will restart the sounds.

You may also do a reset on your diner car. If you have the manual for it there should be a section that outlined the procedure. I have a diner car with similar issue that worked fine after I reset it. Good luck. 

Wendell

One oddity of the Legacy StationSounds diners I have got is that you have to address the car to get the sound system to turn on. In other words, enter its road number in the CAB2 remote and press the power on button. Otherwise the car remains silent and even dark (no interior lights). 

There was a thread on this Forum a while back in which Dave Olson of Lionel explained that Lionel is changing the StationSounds settings so that the cars are on at power up by default. 

I would not have assumed that this was a matter of the Legacy system version BUT if you have upgraded to v. 1.60+, maybe it expects that the diner has been turned on before it will start executing commands.

Might be worth a try.

I appreciate all the feedback today guys.  Have just tried each thing that was mentioned on the thread today with no luck.  HANCOCK52 I will look up that article you mentioned because one thing I didn't say yesterday is that the lights are not on or controllable either.  I keep getting the one quick sound when I apply track power but then nothing else after.  Will keep trying, this is the joy of the troubleshoot as I really don't want to downgrade back to V. 1.52    

That would be the first picture I posted. The startup button. 

I just had one other thought. I've been talking about experience with/operation of the most recent Legacy StationSounds diners (21" ABS versions) which may have different electronics than yours. As far as I can see, your set was issued in 2014/15 and as it was a reissue of a set made some ten years before, it might not have the most up to date Legacy sound/control components. Or it may be fitted with TMCC controls - what does the manual say? (I can't trace one for this car or set on Lionel's support site.) Did it come with an orange module to add it to the CAB2?

I assume from your post that you originally entered it in the CAB2 as a passenger car but was that with a module or manually? I think that the 1.60/.61 update added "support" for the latest Legacy diners, which are very different from previous versions.

My only other thought is that maybe you should delete the car from the remote and try entering it again. Of course another possibility is that a board has gone bad but I can't see how a software update would cause that. 

Hancock52 posted:

I just had one other thought. I've been talking about experience with/operation of the most recent Legacy StationSounds diners (21" ABS versions) which may have different electronics than yours. As far as I can see, your set was issued in 2014/15 and as it was a reissue of a set made some ten years before, it might not have the most up to date Legacy sound/control components. Or it may be fitted with TMCC controls - what does the manual say? (I can't trace one for this car or set on Lionel's support site.) Did it come with an orange module to add it to the CAB2?

I assume from your post that you originally entered it in the CAB2 as a passenger car but was that with a module or manually? I think that the 1.60/.61 update added "support" for the latest Legacy diners, which are very different from previous versions.

My only other thought is that maybe you should delete the car from the remote and try entering it again. Of course another possibility is that a board has gone bad but I can't see how a software update would cause that. 

 

Maybe it needs set up as control TMCC and RS and not Legacy RS.  You might be on to something Hancock.  Maybe it was still using TMCC boards and needs to be addressed individually and not put into the train.

It would be worth a try at least to try it as "TMCC" and not Legacy.

Yeah, it was a bit of a brainwave after thinking about the fact that the OP's diner is based on an older design/spec that long preceded Legacy sounds in their current incarnation. I have one StationSounds diner that came with a Legacy set but still had TMCC components. I think that entering it in the remote it defaulted to TMCC control and Railsounds, not Legacy. 

Hi Guys - Again, thank you so much for the support on my first post in the forum.  You have all been great.  Attaching a video so you can hear the sound and what the steps I took.  I also took a pic of the manual.

The programming looks good.  What I didn't see you try, at least in the video was ENG 12 startup. Not sure if that makes a difference or if you tried it off video. 

Just an update. I gained access to one of the 21" cars and I did not have to push the start up button. The sounds came right up.  I know we might have asked did you push the volume up on the Cab2?   Is it possible you are actually putting it in program to operate and not run.  I know these are basic and obvious questions but I don't see anything wrong with your programming and I was using 1.6 and 1.61 so I know it works. 

OK, what I saw is that you tried to program this as a Legacy passenger car, and it says Legacy on the manual (dated 2015, so it could be an early version of Legacy). So that's manual programming; did you get an orange module with this car? And have you tried programming it as a TMCC/RS car? Obviously it does not work with the programming you tried, although the car is responding to track power/the command signal when it is placed on the track.

At this point, the next thing that occurs to me is, who has Rudy "Railsounds" T.'s email address? If this is a software compatibility issue, and I suspect it could be, he'll know why. Marty, over to you on that; I follow Rudy on this forum but do not know how to contact him.

The next thing is, what does the manual say? This is a 15" dining car and the only car of that kind I have is definitely TMCC. This is kind of an oddball/special issue car and I have no direct experience of StationSounds diners of this kind. 

Positive note: If it worked before it should work again - with some tweak we have not found or tried yet.

Hancock52 posted:

OK, what I saw is that you tried to program this as a Legacy passenger car, and it says Legacy on the manual (dated 2015, so it could be an early version of Legacy). So that's manual programming; did you get an orange module with this car? And have you tried programming it as a TMCC/RS car? Obviously it does not work with the programming you tried, although the car is responding to track power/the command signal when it is placed on the track.

At this point, the next thing that occurs to me is, who has Rudy "Railsounds" T.'s email address? If this is a software compatibility issue, and I suspect it could be, he'll know why. Marty, over to you on that; I follow Rudy on this forum but do not know how to contact him.

The next thing is, what does the manual say? This is a 15" dining car and the only car of that kind I have is definitely TMCC. This is kind of an oddball/special issue car and I have no direct experience of StationSounds diners of this kind. 

Positive note: If it worked before it should work again - with some tweak we have not found or tried yet.

 

Let's try @Railsounds and see if we can get him here.

The instruction manual definitely says Legacy Railsounds but I think it's worth a try to make it TMCC as suggested earlier just to see what happens.

OK, morning guys.  This did not come with an orange module.  I just tried to program as TMCC/RS with no luck.  Last night I also reinstalled the 1.52 Cab & Base modules.  I cleared ID 12 and re-programmed with no luck their either.  Maybe now I'm realizing why this was on sale for 70% off list

Is the Min/Max switch set to MAX?

I just had a look at @Railsounds previous posts and was reminded of a Legacy StationSounds issue he helped resolve - the thread is here: https://ogrforum.com/...58#78579203797027858

This was a case of the user accidentally locking the lighting/sounds while using Legacy version 1.52. This might not be your issue but we all have experience of accidentally pressing an AUX button with unintended/unpredictable results!

I hope Rudy will chime in.

It's starting to sound like it's time maybe to peek inside this car.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's starting to sound like it's time maybe to peek inside this car.

I completely agree but didn’t have the nerve to suggest it! The first Legacy StationSounds diner I got was DOA and the reason was one of the body screws had been installed through a lighting wire and the control board was fried. That doesn’t seem to be the case here but I suppose it’s possible a connection has worked loose or a board is not properly seated.

Mike R. helped me fix that issue but it was by way of Lionel replacing the RCMC board. (CORRECTION: It was an RCDR2 board that got replaced.)

Although in the OP’s position I’d open the car just to see exactly what boards it has inside if there’s a software glitch looking at the boards wouldn’t tell the likes of me what it could be.

I looked on-line, but no info I could find on what is inside.  I'm guessing probably one of the new audio boards and an RCDR, but that's just a guess based on some other products.  FWIW, I've had several RCDR modules croak in the past, they don't seem all that robust.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I looked on-line, but no info I could find on what is inside.  I'm guessing probably one of the new audio boards and an RCDR, but that's just a guess based on some other products.  FWIW, I've had several RCDR modules croak in the past, they don't seem all that robust.

Well the odd part, at least from the info provided, is the change in Legacy version coincided with the sounds stopping. I tend to agree that we've exhausted just about every thought.  Hopefully Rudy does chime in to see if we missed anything.

That being said, I noticed the power wasn't shut down when the car was removed and returned to the track when programming.  Wonder if a short happened if this is always done.  I know my rate of getting all the trucks on the track is 50/50.

You have a better record than me Marty, I'm about 25/75, trying to put things on powered tracks.  It always seems to trip the breaker anyway, I should take a hint.

I wondered about a short too but it’s a 15” car and the OP got it back on the rails without a hitch at least in the video. 

But as Marty also noted, the CAB2 screen went directly to the dining car icons after the programming in the video so no start up/power on command was given. That’s odd for the Legacy diners I have.

Hi Guys - Don't think I will be able to work on this tonight but will pop the top and take some pics/video and upload it on Friday.

Success!!  Did two things.  Took ends of car off and attempted to remove the body by sliding.  It didn’t work too well but wires were moved around a bit.  Maybe a bad wire somewhere??  Then with all track power off took advice from earlier today and switched to program, turned track power on, programmed, turned track power off, switched to run, applied track power and addressed diner car and it came back to life.  Many thanks to all you guys for your determination and support over the past few days.  

Great news.  Have fun.  This forum may not always get you going but we sure try hard.

I like a happy ending. 👍

in terms of what caused your problem, maybe a loose wire that trying to slide the frame out of the body somehow re-seated but the instructions for setting the car ID on my Legacy StationSounds diners are to power up the track after you have set the switch to PGM and put the car on the track. They say nothing specific about powering off after programming but I think with older diners it was recommended to do so and wait a few seconds before powering on again. 

Anyway, what you did worked so I’ll save this for future reference.

I guess just the thread of looking inside was enough to shock it into submission!

If it happens again, I suggest really taking it apart and tracking down the loose connection, but I'm glad to see whatever it is, it appears to be minor.

Glad you were able to resolve the problem, thanks to all who helped out!

I am happy to see this post. I am having similar issues. I’ll read this again and try the suggestions. 

Fireball RR posted:

 

Success!!  Did two things.  Took ends of car off and attempted to remove the body by sliding.  It didn’t work too well but wires were moved around a bit. 

I have put finished interiors from newer Lionel aluminum passenger cars  into MPC-era passenger cars to upgrade those sets.  From experience, after having removed bodies by sliding (which can be done but is a real challenge and I won't go into it), the easiest way to do it is to remove the trucks first, and then slide the interior and chassis out from the shell.  When done, slide it back in place, and then re-attach the trucks. Just a hint in case you find yourself in this situation again and need to take apart one of these type passenger cars. 

@breezinup Thank you, makes sense, hoping to not have to open it up again.  Trucks made it a little challenging last night but it all worked out.