Help with My First Layout

I still use the Z500, but you'll need an adapter cable like this one in order to connect it to the TIU. If you're handy, you can probably make one cheaper. I was told that the Z500 should have still worked on my then planned 10x17 garage layout with 3 levels running 3 trains. I could be wrong and I'm new at all this too, but I don't think you'll have any problems. I was considering a Z4000, but my LHS suggested I go ahead and try the Z500. If I ran into problems, I could always upgrade to the Z1000 or Z4000 then. I eventually want a Z4000, but they didn't push me to buy one, which I thought was nice

Glad to hear the Z500 is enough to power your layout & trains & DCS/TIU so that means it will be more than enough for my setup. I did order that adapter along with everything else today so looks like I have what I need to get it set up.

 

Unlike your LHS, mine was pushing the Z4K and gave me the impression the Z500 wouldn't be up to the job.

Just to clarify, that is just what they said at my LHS. Remember, I have no way of knowing for sure until I build the layout. My plan now is to build it and see if I need to upgrade to the Z1000 or Z4000. Either way, I will keep the Z500 for accessories.

 

Mine didn't push the Z4000, so I'm disappointed that yours did. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Z4000 is a worthwhile investment, that's why I want one, but I would never push a product on someone unless they came in with a problems that I knew it would fix. Of course, I don't know what you asked, so the Z4000 might be the one you'll need eventually. I don't know how well the Z500 works with 2 trains and powered accessories. I'm surprised no one else is commenting.

I guess I'll find out soon then! I think the reason mine did was because the person helping me out must be an enthusiast so I got the impression he figured that eventually I would want the Z4K so may as well just buy it now but he really wasn't understanding that what I was looking for was a basic one to get things working.

My understanding is that if you don't intend to progress past a Christmas layout, even larger than your current plan and running 2 trains with some powered accessories, the most you'll need to add is the Z1000 for track power and then use the Z500 for the accessories. My goal is to be able to run 3 trains unattended and then add a 4th and 5th for me to control manually with the remote.

 

I could be wrong, but I think I can make use of the route saving capability of the DCS remote to program the 3 trains to start, stop, etc., along their routes and then "work" the other 2 trains into the mix manually. This will kind of give me the "feeling" that there are 5 people working trains all the time and give me plenty to do.

Being able to show visitors the smoke and then turn it off remotely is a nice feature. I must admit though, I like smoke and would hook up a Mega-Steam fluid car if I could figure how to push enough fluid to the smoke unit without over-filling, etc.

 

It's also some fun designing a route with starts, stops and sounds. I will definitely have a 2-train Christmas layout next year, just have to figure out which diesel I want to buy.

I love the smoke too & run it all the time but since you can apparently damage the smoking unit if you leave it on w/o liquid in there I like the ability to turn it off w/o having to take the engine off the track and get the screwdriver & rerail. Sometimes I let my 3 year old run the train by himself so this way I don't have to worry about making sure I refill it.

 

On another note... my RR-Track v5 came in the mail yesterday & I installed it and ran it today. That simulation feature & the 3D is GREAT and worth the price just by itself. After seeing the way your layout suggestion runs I'm so glad I went with it. It's a much more interesting and fun track layout than what I had. I think it will work & look great. I love those self correcting switches and how the train will switch directions on it's own. Thanks!

Glad to hear you got RR-Track v5 and are happy with it. I felt the same way, but not everyone does, so I always hate to recommend something that might not live up to expectations. While the 3D is nice, I actually think the 3D display with SCARM might better, or maybe just different. I always seem to end up with several breaks in the grade display even though I don't have any track set as overheads or tunnels. Still, it's nice to show multiple levels. I haven't played with terrain contours yet, I just learned base terrain settings a week or so ago. I need to finish going through the Getting Started tutorial. I got half way and then got in a hurry to start my design.  

 

In case you don't know it, you can run the train without smoke with the included remote too, but then you also have to give up the chuffing sound, etc. The upgrade remote is really nice, but I think it will really shine once I get another engine and more track. I still enjoy the record/playback feature and will work on my route for Thursday's visitors.

Dave the track pieces and other goodies arrived today so got the layout track done (but still needs finishing touches) and it's awesome! Love the self switching loops. Makes it a lot more fun to watch it go a different way every time. Will post picture/video once finished. 

 

Cheers! Jose

You have no idea how glad I am to hear that, Jose. I'm always anxious when I recommend things, so thanks for letting me know how things are going. It'll be great to see some photos.

 

My meager Christmas layout was a big hit on Thanksgiving Day, even had a kid visiting down the street come up when he heard the whistles. I'm still over a year away from building my bedroom layout, so next up will be constructing some new modules for next year's Christmas layout. If I do it right, those modules will fit around the dining room table as I build them and then become part of the permanent bedroom layout in 2015. That's the plan anyway.

You should be happy then because WE (myself, my son & even my wife) love the layout. Again the whole switching directions automatically & making the sequence last longer because the train takes a while before arriving at the "station" from the same direction makes it really cool. Very glad you chimed in and suggested the changes. Looking at my original designs I'm so glad I did not go that route!

 

So talk about getting sucked into this hobby.... I just bought the engine I had been lusting over since first looking into this hobby. It's a 2006 Lionel Milwaukee Road Hiawatha 4-4-2 that was made to replicate the real stream liner engine built back in 1935. One came up for sale on eBay and after trying to talk myself into not doing it (cause of price & radius curves needed O-54) I finally gave in and got it for a decent price and super excited. It's just a beautiful looking engine & historic given we live in Milwaukee so it's on its way to us. Now I'm searching for some matching passenger cars and my thinking is to make the engine part of the Christmas gifts for our son and move our X-mas layout down to the basement and add an O-54 loop around it for the Hiawatha and use the O-31 inside.

 

So funny, as I was reading, I was all set to suggest adding an outer oval with O54 and then I got to the part where you plan to do just that.

 

I hope you'll think about connecting it to the rest of the layout at some point so the other train can use it when the Hiawatha isn't running. I also think that you'll find that O54 is mostly because of the passenger cars, not necessarily the 4-4-2 engine, so you might be surprised. I've seen one MTH 4-6-2 set where the engine needs O42, but the cars need O72 because of their length. That's one reason I've decided to pretty much stick with MTH's smaller stuff that will run on O31.

 

Even so I'm trying to fit wider (O54) curves on the 1st level in my design. Even if I never buy an engine that requires more than O31, at least everything will look better on O54 than O31 and I'll still get more operation with O31 on the rest of the layout. My intent is to hide most O31 curves with landscaping and avoid the appearance distraction.

 

I had my 4-6-0 passenger train running at 60 smph the other day without any problems on the O31 oval and I can't imagine running it that fast anyway. if I want the appearance of speed, I'll just change the chuff rate. I do need to test with a half-circle to see how it does and will do that after the holidays when I test a tight O31 reversing loop.

 

So glad to hear everyone enjoys what you have so far, but I hope you have lots of room in the basement because I don't think an O54 oval will be the end of things.

I know what you mean about advertised turn radius being sometimes more than what the train actually needs because I was looking at an MTH 4-4-2 Hiawatha that said it needed O-54 in one section of the website, O-72 in another and O-42 yet in another section and read here it actually can run in O-42. The passenger cars that I'm looking at for the engine would actually handle O-31 curves because they are 15" long so that would be fine but I guess the engine can't make it but now you got me curious if it may negotiate the turn even if it doesn't look so good but yes the O54 loop may be better anyhow because I now think it would be cool to have 2 trains running. Problem is our basement doesn't have too much empty space unless the layout goes around the perimeter & under/around furniture, toys, etc... which may actually be kind of fun for my son (and me too!).

I don't completely understand why some engines can navigate O31 and some can't. 4-6-0 and 4-4-2 don't seem all that different to me, and MTH has all the way up to a 4-8-8-2 that runs on O31. That's the main reason I'll be using MTH engines.

It greatly depends on weather the loco is full on scale or if it is undersized or as we call it 'Traditional' size.

Scale locos often need wider turns because of scale details and clearances. These issues are often left off or modified on a traditional size equipment. 

 

Take two locos in my collection.

Lionel PRR T1 4-4-4-4 vs a Weaver PRR T1 4-4-4-4.

The Lionel loco has the drive wheels that swivel so it can run on O-31 track....and it's smaller than scale to limit the over hang on curves.

The Weaver loco is a ridged frame true to prototype. It is also much larger than the Lionel loco. And some details at included that are omitted on the Lionel to allow the Lionel loco to run on O-31.

 

Prototype of the loco and car can make a difference.

A scale 4-4-2 can often run on O-31 because it's a very small loco.

While a MTH Rail King 4-8-8-2 looks kinda silly on O-31 but does work.

 

Boils down to the room you have and scale or traditional.

 

Dave, I get the scale differences and the appearance issues you mentioned, but in this case we're talking about a 4-4-2. I do see that's it has a set of full-sized 4 in front and 2 full-sized sets of rigid 4's would probably explain the need for the larger curves. In that regard I guess I'd liken it to a 0-4-4-2. Being new, I hadn't thought about rigid vs swivel wheel sets either. Thanks.

Dave, curious and not to hijack the thread but do you think this option #2 would translate into a 5x9 fastrack?

 

Thanks so much! I can do the larger but it would be on a carpeted floor whereas the 5x9 I have pieces of foam that I've attached and placed on tabletop.

I assume the 2nd shot is also using 031 curves? I believe mine are mostly 036 right now. Although I'm starting to amass a decent amount of track each time I go to the store.

Very happy that I stumbled onto this site. Like (I'm sure) many, my entry to the hobby was through a simple Polar Express around a Christmas Tree which is now blossoming into a fun annual event with my son. I think this year we might even be allowed to keep our expanded track up throughout the year so that we can play with more scenery that we do now

Yes, the 2nd shot also uses O31 curves and O36 switches (FasTrack library doesn't have O31 switches). If you try this, be aware of these things:

 

1. The photo doesn't show it, but the curves come pretty close to each other there in the center.

2. There are also 2 places where the joint might depend on how flexible the FasTrack is. You can see one place in the center of the bottom straight and the other is on the right side of the smaller loop.

3. There are 2 "S" curves in the loops that might give you problems, especially with the PE passenger cars.

4. In RR-Track, the roadbeds appear to actually touch along the straight in the center, maybe even overlap a bit.

5. The track is pretty close to the edges. I get nervous with trains so close to the edge when kids are involved.

 

Just to show you the difference using O36, I've added another photo of what that would look like.

 

When you say you use foam on a table, I assume you mean the 2" thick stuff. When you say "attached", do you mean you've glued the pieces together? Would it be possible to attach another 6" to the width and 12" to the length make it 5.5x10 and would the table still support it without too much overhang? You can see how big of a difference that would make and you'd be able to stay with O36.

 

EDIT: I see now I could change the 10" track leading into the switch on the left to a 5" and brought that loop down to fit better in the 5' width, so you'd only have to add a foot to the length to get this to fit nicely.

 

Good call, and thanks yet again.  You're right, it's 2" foam that I glued and doweled together last year as my first attempt.  I could easily add another foot and adjust tables (curently 3 foldable tables placed together), and still have plenty of underside support.  We'll soon be adding non PE cars as well with plans for at least one more locomotive for my son to choose.  We're also planning more scenery, which my wife enjoys hence the potential to keep the set-up year round.

 

I had seen Ace's figure 8 inside a main loop the other day and figured we would go through Christmas with that layout and then move to this one for the rest of the year and build around it (I'll get new foam and cut to order).  I do prefer the 036 curves which to my understanding are slightly more forgiving, with the 048 being event more of a forgiving radius?

With the exception of storage yards, you always want the largest curves you have space for. Of course, that is always a compromise for those of us with smaller spaces and you need to make sure whatever engine you choose will run on the track you have. I know that's obvious, but there are a lot of models of the same engine out there and they all might have different track requirements.

 

My goal with the alternate arrangement was to limit how much new track you'd need to purchase since you already have O36 curves. As you said, it's not too difficult to add to the length given your setup with foam on foldup tables and that's cheaper than buying new O31 curved track.

 

Also, I had some time this morning, so I played with the 5x10 space a little more and came up with this design to show you that there is still more you can do with your space, especially if you add a 2nd engine to the mix.

 

 

Wow that's spectacular, thank you!  I downloaded the free trial version of Anyrail and was starting to play on it but had not yet figured out how to configure measurements for overall space.

 

I think we have a winner with this one. Is there anyway from the photo attachment to get specifics on track i.e. 5 inch, 1/4 curve, half curve, etc?  I can tell the basics from the connecting dots but some still elude me.  As mentioned I have a pretty good assortment of track, will be adding another switch or two (made the mistake of my first two switches being manual and the boy destroyed the little lever pretty quickly when he was younger.  Now I have a couple of remote ones as well

Not to take business away from AnyRail, but unless you plan to buy it to get past the 50 track limit, I'd suggest you invest your time in learning SCARM, assuming it has the FasTrack library.

 

I've attached the Component List. Let me know f you have any questions on specific tracks.

 

Dave you come up w/ some nice layouts! Robby sounds like I'm a year or more behind yours and your sons tradition. I bought our first train about a month ago and this is brand new for us BUT I already see this becoming a great annual tradition around Christmas and I already got the OK from the boss that we could move our X-mas layout as well as an outside loop for a new engine I just bought.

 

So Dave last night I got a chance to wire up the DCS gear and WOW! For starters it works w/ the Z500 no problems and man is this thing awesome. Being able to access all the additional protosound features alone is great. My son LOVES the broadcast feature where you can speak into the DCS remote & the announcements come out of the engine as if it was a radio announcement. Layout & scenery are coming along. I hope to take a video & post here by tomorrow.

Thanks, Jose. I enjoy playing with designs, and that's all I've really done here. It's hard to start with a blank sheet, but if someone throws out a rough draft, it's much easier to work with because you have some idea of what they want and what they might be happy with. And smaller layouts are actually easier because the space dictates what can be done. Plus, you guys have been great to work with.

 

I was equally impressed with the DCS Remote and TIU. I think there is something wrong with mine though because the MIC feature doesn't seem to broadcast clearly, there's a lot of static. I might head to the LHS tomorrow to see if it's supposed to work better. I'm not big on using it, but I might as well get it fixed/replaced under warranty if it broken. The 2 features I like most are being able to record/playback operating sessions and being able to connect my iPod to play music through the train using Protocast.

 

The upgrade is not cheap, but it really makes a difference. I lived with the standard remote for a year and got increasingly frustrated with having to "aim" it, not to mention the limitations. I have to give kudos to my LHS because they warned me a year ago that I'd be back, so I knew before I bought the train set what I was in for cost-wise. Unfortunately, some folks don't realize the full cost of this hobby, even just for an annual Christmas layout. I envy you guys having something to enjoy with your kids at a young age. Would definitely enjoy some photos.

Jose and Dave, thanks so much.  Well jeez now you've got me wondering about this DCS!  I'll post pics in the next day or so of the short term layout before going to the next.  Dave, I really appreciate the track list, most helpful.  I have everything but a couple of switches and one of the really short track pieces.

 

 

Yeah, I knew about the AM stuff, but this was ALL static. So, I just went out to double-check and it seems to be working fine now. I did reset the engine the other day when it stopped working because the tracks needed cleaning, so maybe something was messed up. I also didn't have the stereo receiver on out there this time, so maybe that causes some interference, something I'll have to check.

Anyway, I can see how kids would love that feature, especially if they are into the PE movie.

Here's a video of the layout. Not complete yet as we'll be adding some more buildings & "snow" but you can get an idea.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnd2...dr25n0n/IMG_2533.MOV

 

 

Wow that's fantastic! I've started to look for the remote unit, any idea if it would work with the Lionel PE?

Jose, I didn't realize you had the same train I do (I added the baggage and dining cars). The track configuration looks like it's working well for you and it's nice to see it in action. I had intended to do something similar this year, but a lot of things got in the way this year. I also decided against purchasing more RealTrax in favor of putting the money toward starting construction of a permanent layout for 2015. The 6x8 I have was suppose to double this year, but I just couldn't make it happen. Still, with the ability to record and playback, I get some pleasure out of running the train through our 34 building "It's A Wonderful Life" collection.

 

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/50-1001

 

http://www.tandkhobby.com/product-p/50-1001.htm

 

Thanks as always Dave.  I started doing some research and will continue.  looks like it will work fine but as you mention the amount of control (and importantly for me sound), is based upon having the right locomotives.  So it may be a later purchase, Lionel has a smaller version as well but the microphone was a key point for me and not sure that their's has that functionality.  Either way would require locomotive purchase which is in the cards but not until I get some more switches and FT layout.

Robby from what I've learned so far about DCS (MTH's technology) and TMCC (Lionel's) is that the DCS Remote & TIU will allow you to control DCS, TMCC, and Conventional trains so pretty much all of them out there. Now to control Lionel TMCC trains (which I assume the PE is) you need an additional Lionel Command base ($75) that attaches to the DCS TIU. With that you can use the DCS remote to control both MTH & Lionel engines on the same track at the same time & get the full DCS and TMCC features/sounds BUT the key thing here is that DCS engines have a lot more bells & whistles (no pun intended) than do Lionel TMCC so for example the ability to do that broadcasting via the remote microphone or via an external audio source and have the sound come out from train is something that's a MTH only feature so a Lionel engine could not do that. But in terms of running the train, and accessing the built in features your engine has then yes but again it requires spending more money.

 

I looked into this because I wanted (and bought) a Lionel engine so had to research if I could run it with my DCS system & power supply.

 

 

Lionel uses TMCC which is very similar to DCS and AFIK they can co-exist on the same layout. I do know that the DCS remote will control a TMCC engine, I just don't know to what extent. I also don't know if your PE is TMCC. Either way, I would imagine you'd get the most control out of the system designed for your engine. I intend to only buy MTH engines, so I'm fine with DCS only.