Hi-Level Passenger Cars, Drumheads & GGD Announcement

Tomar offeres an extensive line of illuminated drum heads and marker lamps, in both O Scale and HO Scale. However, I wonder if the Santa Fe El Capatain ever carried a rear end drum head, and where they would hang it. That would sure be an interesting feature in O Scale.

Jack:

 

I looked for pictures without success. There are however written references to a drumhead being used of the SF Hi-Levels. I did find an N Gauge Hi-Level model that shows the drumhead. Picture is posted below.

 

Just my opinion, but SOMETHING is very wrong with that N Gauge car. The diaphragm is definitely NOT in the correct location for one of those Hi-Level passenger cars, i.e. it no way aligns with the top level so that passengers may travel through the "upper level". Sure doesn't look correct to me.

Jack, I agree with you, but it was the one photo I could locate with a model drumhead. The drumhead sure looks good, but the rest of it looks incorrect to me.

According to Walthers, that is the step down car and was placed at the rear of the train. The unpainted models in the link show the placement for the HO Walthers model, looks the same as the Kato n scale you have pictured. https://www.walthers.com/exec/page/el_capitan 

 

The problem would be, how did the Conductor/Trainman hang the drumhead THAT low, since the door is MUCH higher?

 

Have you tried searching the Santa Fe Historical Society site, or maybe even contacting them and asking how the High-Level cars carried a rear drumhead, if indeed they did?

When I did my research, I found several references to a drumhead used on the Hi-Level El Capitain. All references pointed to the Conquistador logo for the drumhead.

 

I like your suggestion, and will do so more detailed research. In any event, the logo should really look cool on this rear end car.

Brian, I have a book on the Santa Fe in Texas and the SF hi-levels used the Santa Fe Chief drumheads. 

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

OK, that is really nice,,,,,but can you please shed some light on this question about the rear end drumheads on the high-level passenger cars????

Steve:

 

If there is a picture of the rear car with the drumhead installed, could you scan it and post the photo here. I think we would all love to see it.

 

Thanks for your response.

Hello everyone:

 

Brian, this is a great set and YES, a drumhead is proper. I have seen, but don't have,  El Capitain images with the Conquistador drumhead.

 

Posted below is the "San Francisco Chief". While it may not show very well, the drumhead is hanging off a bar across the door. If I find my images of the El Capitain I will post here.

 

Copyright: Patrick C. Dorin. "Santa Fe Passenger Trains in California". 

TLC Publishing 2006. Pg. 9.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Charlie

 

 

Thanks for that photo Charlie, as that plainly shows that the drumhead was mounted "up high". Also note that there are NO red marker lights.

Brian - Those changes to your Hi-Level Santa Fe cars will be stunning!  This is such a prized and beautiful set and the lights on the rear will just further accentuate it.

 

Art

Thanks for Posting the photo Charlie.  I believe that is the same photo in my Santa Fe book.  I also believe the San Francisco Chief originated in Texas and then ran West to Los Angeles.

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

Thanks Charlie for finding the picture that shows a drumhead on one of the Sante Fe Hi-Level cars. This clears up any question about their existence!!!!!!!!!

 

 

As far as red rear marker lights not shown in the photo Charlie posted, I look at it this way. MY RAILROAD requires them for safety reasons, so they are going on, prototypical or not. Maybe the Sante Fe railroad believed that the light from the drumhead was sufficient to designate the rear end car, but red lights from a distance would probably be more visible. Just my opinion.

 

Thanks to all of you who posted. It has been an education about drumheads on Sante Fe Hi-Level passenger cars.

Dan's drumheads on the web and on ebay makes a great product and does custom work. Most of his items are $9.99. I just did a special order yesterday and it was still the same price.

 

That car looks fantastic with the drumhead!  Terry

Keil Line makes the o scale passenger door gate that you see the drumhead hanging off of.

Another example of a thread which helps find answers.  This is what the OGR forum is all about. 

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

Thanks Steve, you are so correct. This Forum is the best resource for O-Gauge train information and how it corresponds to the railroad industry (past and present).

 

Thanks go to you and Charlie for confirming the existence of drumheads on the Sante Fe Hi-Levels and to Charlie for posting a picture for all to see.

The model has the vestibule door at normal height for single level cars to be attached on the rear of the train. Thus no upper level cross thru on this end of the car. It is former Santa Fe 545 by Vincent Cammarano Jr from the Hebners amtrak site. 

 

 

As for rear marker lights, the Santa Fe image appears to be in a yard somewhere.

 

 

 

Lima:

 

Many thanks for the image of the Amtrak Hi-Level car. You cleared up the confusion with respect to the N scale car pictured above. It also makes good sense that the rear/end car should have red marker lights.

Wait!  Do not rush to judgment!

 

The photo portrays the rear car but not the rear of the train.  It was probably taken in the coach yard as the cars were being readied to take to the depot.  As Hot Water points out, Santa Fe did not have permanently mounted red lights on the ends of its passenger cars  Trust me, though, when they became a train, a Santa Fe employee would have hung the red marker (which was solid red, not flashing).

Tom we all need you to write down all this Santa Fe historical information/facts you have in your head from experience so we have it for future use.  I know you have stuff in there we can't just "look up" on the internet.

Tom:

 

A Sante Fe historian contacted me after learning of this thread and is working on the facts concerning the drumheads and rear car marker lights for their Hi-level cars. I will update this thread when I get his report.

 

However, regardless of what is prototypical or not prototypical, the drumhead and marker lights are going on my rear end car. It would be nice if it turns out that they are prototypical, but I think they will add significantly to a model railroad car and in the final analysis, that's all that is really important to me.

Alex Malliae made a discovery today while working on this car. He found a switch somewhat hidden under the trucks that turns the marker lights on & off. When I quickly looked at the rear end of this car, I thought there were screw holes half way up the car. They turned out to be marker lights that Alex discovered.

 

So, K-Line believed they should be on this car. Good enough for me.

 

 

Hi Brian,

 

Here's two photo's of the car's lit up, it's hard too appreciate the drum heads from these photo's, but they sure look beautiful in person.

 

Thanks,

Alex

 

Brian, marker lights are a great discovery with an on/off switch too boot.  Talked to Alex myself today about  my drum head. 

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

Thanks Alex for posting the photos. Everyone can now get a good look at what I was attempting to accomplish with the drumheads and marker lights.

 

I think they make a significant improvement in these Hi-Level passenger cars.

Alex,
Any chance you would be willing to let me know where those drumheads came from, if they are not handmade.

Thanks

My pleasure

 

Here's the link,

 

https://tomarindustries.com/drumheads.htm

 

 

Alex

Thanks Alex!

I assume their O scale size? I had looked at the Dan's Drumheads mentioned in an earlier post but at nickel size they don't seem like they would fit within the door frame.

Here you go!

Many thanks jvega2. Sure proves the point.

Great information, thanks all! 

So then, was there ever an observation car (after a step down hi-level car) at the end the train? 

This is what it should look like.

 

 

 

So then, was there ever an observation car (after a step down hi-level car) at the end the train? 

 

NO.

 

Brian and Alex - That looks great.  It really adds interest to the end of the train. 

 

Jim - Your car looks very good.  I see the single red light.  Do you know if that how the prototype did it?  What scale is that car?

 

Art

 

 

Art, 

 

Number 90 is the Santa Fe "expert", but I THINK that the red light in the center of the gate is prototypical, possibly for later years. Checkout one of the prototype photos poste farther above, and you will note that electric rear marker lamps may be hung on the brackets, which are mounted on the outside corners of the car. Note the electrical conduit and "plug-in receptacle" boxes adjacent to each marker lamp bracket. The bottom line is, the Santa Fe did NOT have/use built-in red lights on the backs of their high level cars. 

Thanks Spence. The Sante Fe car started me thinking about my other Hi-Level set, the Alaska, and I found on the Tomar website an Alaska Railroad McKinley Route drumhead. It is a natural for this car as the Station Sounds car announcements name the Denali Limited.

 

Alex Malliae is a master at doing these upgrades with expertise. I am really excited about getting these two end cars on the layout. These are the little touches that make a huge difference to a layout.