Hi-Level Passenger Cars, Drumheads & GGD Announcement

Brian, Alex......that drumhead looks great, an eye opening detail for sure. 

Steve, Lady and Tex

OK, there seems to be a wire coming from the bottom of the car to something on the right in this picture.  Could this be a marker light.

Also lights depend on time of use.  Amtrak did retrofitted them during the retrofit to HEP>

Chugman -

That is not my car.  It belongs to a friend of mine that lives on the West Coast.  The Scale is HO and the manufacturer is Walthers.

Click on this link to see more pics, including the interior which is absolutely stunning.

http://s806.photobucket.com/user/Trainsforyou/media/El%20Cap%20Passenger%20Train/SF37PowerIMG_1804c25_zps0768b574.jpg.html?sort=6&o=24

Jim - We talk about three rail scale and the HO guys put us totally to shame.  I realize they seem to have a lot more products available, but still that is awesome.

Art

Art -

I have seen pictures of your layout.  You have nothing to ashamed of.  There are gifted people in every scale.  I enjoy my 3-rail time at Hot Water's and the 2-3 shows we do each year.  The guys are great and we all get along very well.  I got back into HO because my basement was just too small for a decent TRS layout.

Jim

Thanks, Jim.

Art

I just read on another thread about GGD is making these cars.  This is very exciting!  And in GGD's brochure they have a picture of the real El Capitan with the same drumhead.  Here is a link to the thread:

https://ogrforum.com/t...71#26349031934481171

Art

Why are the cars  so high? Compartments or bed rooms below? I don't think I've ever seen this type of car.

Mu guess is there has been so much activity on the OGR Forum about the Sante Fe Hi-Levels, this has peaked GGD interest in this project. Their announcement included a real world picture of these cars and not the usual prototype, so it appears to me that there was some urgency to make this announcement while the interest is high.

That's what I call smart selling. Good job, Scott, this is great for our hobby!

Taking a second look at the GGD brochure for their announcement of the Sante Fe Hi-Level cars, I noticed that the rear car will have a "tail sign" or drumhead. So if there was any question about this, Scott and the photos posted to this thread sure put this question to rest!!!!!

The proper consist for the El Capitan circa 1956 is as follows:

Baggage (storage mail)
Baggage
Baggage-Dormitory (transition car)
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level Diner
Hi-Level Lounge
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car

GGD 8-car set needs the following to make a complete set:

1. An additional Step Down Chair Car

2. Three more 72-Seat Chair cars

Total MSRP: $1999.95 for the 8-car set

                     249.95 for the Step Down

                     749.85 for the additional 72-Seat Chair cars.

Total          $2,999.85

Jim:

Many thanks for the update for the correct configuration of the El Capitan and for the pricing information. The pricing is not inexpensive, but neither is what the K-Lines are selling for.

It will be very interesting to see how the market adjusts to the GGD introductions. This may take some time because the GGD cars are some time off before they reach the buyers.

I agree it might be a good long while before the GGD cars are landed and to buyers -- expecting a year or more would not be out of line based upon previous GGD offerings.

I am very pleased that the GGD cars will have LED lighting and a drumhead.  My biggest concern will be how well the aluminum exterior will look.  The K-Line cars exteriors were hard to beat in my opinion.  I also wonder about the diaphragms and how well they will look and operate.

Art 

Just some details I discovered while researching the El Capitan.


All Chair Cars shall be turned as to the instructions from the Passenger Department.
Hi Level Chairs are to arranged whereas the number 1 seat is toward the front of the train, except the first Step down Chair Car in this train shall run backwards, seat 68 to the front. 
To identify these cars, the first car running backward will have the 5 lower level windows to the right side or engineers side. The remainder cars shall have the 2 lower windows to the right side or engineers side.

Hi Level Diner shall be run with the three separate upper windows to the front right side or engineers side.
Hi Level Lounge shall be run with the three lower level lounge area on the right side or engineers side.

(For this graphic presentation, please assume that the first car in each consist is an RPO. I could not find to match this scale so I just used a second baggage car.)

<----- Direction














Direction ----->

Another note:

The Santa Fe had 5 complete consist of the El Capitan. At any given time there were 2 westbound from Chicago to L.A. and 2 eastbound L.A. to Chicago. The fifth set was being serviced in one or the other terminus locations. 

Thanks Jim for providing your research in a form that we can all see and better understand. I sure appreciate it.

Greg, The Hi-Level cars were a new concept by Santa Fe, built by the Budd Co. back in the mid 50's and placed in service July 15th 1956 for the traveling public. The idea (so I read) was that the passengers would sit much higher above the rails as opposed to a standard car thus reducing noise levels and with better views of the Southwest. The restrooms and additional storage and baggage space were on the lower level in each of the cars. The dining car had the kitchen on the lower level with small elevators that would deliver the food to the dining area.

This was an All-Chair car train (No beds or compartments) with no seating on the lower levels with the exception of the lounge car which had bar lounge seating on the lower level. All the cars had it's service equipment including air conditioning and auxiliary generators and batteries on the lower level as well. I guess you could say they were kind of the predecessors of the Amtrak Superliners. 

Joe

Thanks Joe...

also, during this period of time coach seating demands were rising over sleeper space.  If you have a 2 level car, more passenger could be seated on the top, with things like restrooms on the bottom, without having a longer train.

ATSF did order these cars as late at 1964 from Budd.

I have just modified the Title of this thread as a result of today's announcement of the GGD Sante Fe Hi-Level cars. The GGD topic is appropriate to this thread as their version will have what they refer to as an end car sign that is spot on to this general topic.

The GGD announcement certainly has rocked the O-Gauge passenger train world today.

Jim - That is great information.  I especially liked hearing about the 5 complete trains.  The price information, not so much. 

Art

Brian, here are two I found at Railfair 99.

Amtrak was in active service and the baggage car was just sitting in the old SP yard.

Jim, I've seen some photos of the El Cap running with a shorter consist of 7 High Level cars (See Photo) Making it a little easier on the wallet......Ouch! 

jvega2 -

My post read "circa 1956".

You are certainly free to model the train in that picture and you will save yourself $500.  But whatever you decide, PLEASE include a Step Down Chair Car (running backwards and visible in your picture) right after the Baggage-Dorm Transition Car.  Otherwise, it will be very difficult for the support staff (non-operating crew) to service the passengers. 

Thanks Jim, yes, will definitely include a second 68 seat step down chair car.

Joe

What became of all these beautiful SF cars in later years?  Do many survive today?

Just when I thought the market had enough latest-and-greatest goodies with stratospheric price tags, GGD ups the ante with these gems.    I guess the $2,000+ market must be bigger than we all thought.    Although now I wonder just how many folks springing for a complete set of these will think twice about their plans to purchase Lionel's upcoming VL Big Boy.  Or at the very least, they'll buy just one Big Boy instead of 3 or 4.  

If you can handle it all, more power to ya.  But at some point, the nose-bleed market is gonna hit a cliff big time.  Just AMAZING.

David

Thanks Marty for the photos.

Sante Fe Jim:

Thank you again for all of the information you have posted about the Sante Fe Hi-Levels. Our Forum members obviously from the number of posts have a significant interest in this train and what you have posted is very useful.

Many went into Amtrak service immediately. In the Superliner era, the step-down cars were used between baggage cars and the Superliners, chair cars sometimes substituted for them (was on an excursion in 1992 and my car was a Hi-level right down to the original fabric ) and the lounge cars live on today as the highly popular Pacific Parlour 1st class lounge cars on the Coast Starlight (that's the way to travel!).

Peter

Announcements of Hi-levels in any scale is an event as the are always highly appreciated (there is a huge Santa Fe base out there) and they do sell out quickly. People tend to keep them so they don't show up too much on the secondary market. I wouldn't stay on the fence too long if someone wants these!

Peter

Peter:

Very well said. Even a this price point, Sante Fe has one of the largest, if not the largest fan base (me included since I was 7 years old), and my guess is there will be a line at the door to get them.

I give Scott Mann a big pat on the back for taking the initiative to produce the Hi-Levels.

Thanks for posting the video, Jim. Always enjoy watching the El Capitan.

However there is ZERO risk at watching a video of the El Capitan in HO scale. Just think how nice it is to see it as a model twice the size of this little fella. 

I made a correction to the high vs low rear door question in a post, which proved to be inaccurate, that I placed on this thread.  If you desire to know the official consist of the Hi-Level El Capitan, I posted it on the 3-Rail Scale Forum.  I hope I did not cause anybody to lose a big bet 

No lost bets, Tom. I do certainly enjoy your commentary on the Sante Fe. Nice to have this resource on the OGR Forum.

Jim - That video is great!  Fantastic model of the El Cap and beautiful scenery to boot. 

Art

Not the best photo of the El Capitan drumhead, but you can get the idea. Just came back from Alex Malliae and to see the installation and look of this drumhead in person, it is spectacular. Also note the factory installed marker lights. Again, looking at the marker lights in person, they look much better than in the photo and have a very nice "red", not overdone, and should look great on the layout.

Here is a video of my 1956 consist - all cars except the first baggage an last step down (MTH) are Lionel.  I made two transition step down cars out of a Lionel and the MTH car I got separately:

Allan

Very nice work allen.  So with the 7 car ATSF superliner set, there as one step down car?  If that is correct it is in the 4 pack?  

You made the second step down car (the last car in your train) from an MTH car....is that right?  Which MTH car did you use?

Thanks Allan for the video. You have made a super version of the El Capitan. Love the Lionel Station Sounds Car.