Hi-Rail style two rail trains....

Rick,

all the wheels on 3 rails are not isolated, only the roller pick up does.

so you can't run 3 rails equipment on 2 rails without a mayor modification.

Andre.

Andre,

Sounds about right, that is, too good to be true!

Thanks.

Rick.

The diesel high rail wheels are insulated!! Checked with my continuity meter, you can also see the insulator on the axle. If you check when the high rail wheels are installed on locomotive they will show continuity, then when you set the locomotive switch to 2 rail there is no continuity. Just checked on my 2-3 rail MTH SD40-2

Interesting question, would the new Proto 3-2 locomotives be capable since all the wheels are insulated from the opposite sides? (If they did the freight cars and dummy units also then their entire product line would be uniform.)

Sorry missed the "two"!

Lima...

I am not abreast of MTH two rail....what small switcher in their line is two rail/three rail capable?

When on "two rail" is it there for on DC or AC track voltage?

Do all features still function in "two rail"?

This sounds interesting!

Rick.

Recent MTH Premier (hasn't been added to Rail King...yet) locomotives equipped with Proto 3-2 (not to be confused with Protosoud 3) can switch between 2-rail mode and 3-rail mode. Protosound 2 versions of these locomotives also carry a DCS "polarity" switch to receive the DCS signal from either the Engineer or Conductor side of the locomotive while Protosound 3 locomotives can pick up the DCS signal from either side.

3-volt Protosound 2 and all Protosound 3 locomotives can run on AC or DC track voltage and will reverse according to track polarity. With AC, the E-unit cycle will be in effect.

3-rail rolling stock can not run in a 2-rail environment because the axles are not insulated. So only 2-rail rolling stock, or rolling stock with plastic hi-rail wheels could be used in a 2-rail operating context.

I have an earlier Proto- 2 Hudson that ran just fine on my 2- rail track.  Flanges were a bit oversize, but all it took was a switch under e tender, as I recall.

Why not just go 2- rail if you do not like the center rail?  Track is a model too, and with Gargraves your railroad will always look like American Flyer with more ties.

Matt,

So all Proto 3 are not two rail compatible then? We thught all the locomotives were, good thing we didn't buy any as a gift!!

I couldn't agree more bob2. I was all set to do the Gargraves 2 rail Hi-rail thing, but I realized that I would never be happy with the look of the track. Yes it has 2 rails, but that's about it. The benefits would be that you can still run very tight curves. Personally I decided to just bite the bullet and perhaps have "less" of a 2R layout than "more" of a 2RHR layout. The scale looks and lack of flanges, couplers, etc... are what I want. I didn't want to get half way through a 2RHR layout and say "I wish I would have just done 2R".

Agreed. Nothing wrong with 3 rail trains. However, if it comes to the point where you start to want to turn them into 2 rail trains, just bite the bullet and go 2 rail. You will most likely save yourself a lot of aggravation.

Simon

I turn a lot of 3-rail stuff into 2- rail without much aggravation.  I started with a 763 and the scale 700 series freight cars, and have never looked back.  I bet I have twenty K- Line 21" cars converted, maybe ten die cast hoppers, three Train Masters, an MTH Hudson, and soon a Lionel FEF.

Radius is not affected by what kind of track or flanges you have. - it is a function of the length and realism of your models.  An NW-2 and a bunch of ore cars can be operated on cose 148 2- rail track of 18" radius if you want, or even 13 1/2" radius (O-27).  But a realistic Pacific with close coupled tender will require 36" min in eithr 2 or 3- rail.

it just depends on what you want.  No magic in big flanges and centr rail.

opinion.

But you are not taking into account all of the tolerance compromises built into today's models including blind drivers. Examples: MTH 4-8-4 Daylight- 3R=27r 2R=45r, Sunset Erie 2-8-4- 3R=36r 2r=56r. Same for diesels... MTh 6 axle diesels- 3R=18r 2R=36r.

So 2 rail high rail will allow you to run MTH Hi rail wheeled engines on 2 rail track in the exact same footprint as 3 rail. The question is do you really want to? My answer was no.

Sorry for the late response, but several Proto-3 engines in the Premier Line can still switch between 3-rail and 2-rail mode. There are some exceptions like the E-units,  SD45's and locomotives in the specialty sets. I have several new Proto-3 scale-wheeled diesels (with more on the way) which I run at the club in 3-rail mode after I initially test them in 2-rail mode. So far, all of them have been able to negotiate 36" radius (O-72) curves with cars attached. Though I've moved to scale-wheeled locomotives and cars, I still have a large investment in 3-rail equipment which I plan on keeping, but I'm planning to ultimately switch everything to kadee couplers and fixed pilots on the diesels.

If you were to go the hi-rail 2-rail route, you would have to convert all of your rolling stock.   So the locos are one issue, but the rolling stock might be a bigger one.  

You will have to buy new wheelsets for every car.    So if you have to,  why not buy scale wheels?    And even beyond that, are hi-rail insulated rails available?

Very good info Gents,

As for rolling stock....I would machine a non-conductive bushing to insulate the wheel(s).

Re-starting in two rail would be senseless for me...just thinking outside the box so to speak.

I doubt I would buy any new locomotives....to expensive to experiment with. I would likely just hack up a Lionel MPC era Geep or NW-2!

Thanks Guys,

Rick.

I'm not sure what you mean. You would not want scale body mount couplers if you went 2RHR. You need the big 3R couplers that swing to negotiate the tight curves. Example: An MTH Premiere six axle diesel with Hi-rail wheels and 3R couplers will run just fine on O-36. If you switched to body mount kadees it won't work on that tight of a curve. You would want to keep the same flanges and couplers two be able to operate on 2R track with the same radius as 3R. All you are doing is picking up the current through the wheels instead of through the 3rd rail. That is the whole point of the 2RHR concept. With MTH Proto 3/2 engines there is simply no need for a center rail.  If you want to lay down a loop of Gargraves 2R track with 18"r you can run any Proto 3/2 engine that will run on O-36 3R.

For me, I realized that I wanted more than just the exact same 3R trains running on 2R track. I really wanted to commit to true 2R.

Jonny - I stand by my post.  Radius is a function of realism.  Blind drivers are not generally realistc.  Undersize cylinder blocks, small pilot wheels, and missing tail beams are not realistic.  Truck- mounted couplers are not realistic.  The tighter the radius, the more of these compromises one must make. 

Two- railers do not generally make many of these compromises. But each hobbyist gets to choose what makes him or her happy - and for many, that is three rail O-27.

Opinion.

Bob2,

I agree. This topic was started to talk about 2R Hi rail. Which is a compromise that falls between 3R and 2R. I happen to agree with you. That's why I am personally doing 2R. Model railroading is all about what the individual and their "compromisability". There are plenty of people who are fine with 3R. Some prefer 3RS. Some can't stand the 3rd rail but don't mind the other issues so 2RHR is an option. Then we have 2R. And don't forget that there are people who can't stand to see the 5ft gauge and other compromises that 2R makes... and that's why there is Proto 48. It is up to the individual to make the decision based on all factors including (but not limited to) nostalgia, budget, space constraints, product availability, and realism. There is no right or wrong answer and that's what makes model railroading so great. 2RHR is less about replacing 2R and more about using the same 3R equipment and ditching the 3rd rail. That's all I was trying to say.

My only point was to show that there is no technical reason to have a 3rd rail today. The only reason that it exists is 100+years of tradition.