Love to see MTH or LCT make a HUGE twin-motored Blue Comet Hudson and a set of matching "Showroom" cars. This Hudson would be on the scale of the BRUTE.
One AWESOME Blue Comet!
Would you purchase one?
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I guess that would be nice , But I think I would pass.
I have a junior size comet (400e) I would go for another color
rat
Lionel used twin can motors in both their standard gauge Hiawatha and Commodore Vanderbilt 4-6-4's, so the engineering exists. What I am proposing is a LARGER Hudson style loco to match the LARGE "Showroom" cars. This engine would likely require minimum O84 radii curvature (as do the "Showroom" cars) to look right. Such a set in Blue Comet livery would be mind-blowing.
Hey, a fellow can dream.....
I personally do not like the over-sized Lionel items, like the Brute. This was never intended as a SG item as the wheel gauge was a more appropriate 3.25". Hence, I am not a "big" fan of the Showroom Cars either. The Super 381 is/was a better choice for SG reproduction as it was originally designed for that sized track, it was just deemed too large for a child to handle and never put into production. I saw the original a few years back in the Tabor Museum of PA. It houses the Shempp collection, neat piece.
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Alas, nice as it is, the "Super 381" is NOT CAB-articulated. I have the green P-2 BRUTE and it is on display next to where I am typing this. The CAB-articulation gives it an extra dimension of operation which I enjoy very much!
It looked better running on 084 radii curves at my depot/home in North Carolina, but still looks well on my 072 curves here in Nashville, TN!
To each, his/her own!
Would you post a few pictures of your Brute? When did you aquire it? Is it an MTH remake? Thanks
Sorry, no pics. The original Lionel engine, later dubbed the "Brute", was a one of a kind prototype model originally intended for Buddy-L gauge track, and it was never put into production. MTH, in partnership with Lionel as Lionel Corporation Tinplate, did produce a version of the Brute with standard gauge motors. The first version was the proto 2.0 which I own. It runs on standard gauge track. Subsequently, LCT has offered a few different liveries as well as a Proto 3.0 version.
Thanks for the Brute update. Sounds very cool!
Both the super 381 and Brute are prototypes rejected by Lionel in the pre war period. Both still exist today. Both engines are big for Standard Gauge. The super 381 goes well with regular State Cars. The Brute was grossly oversized for regular State cars so MTH made showroom cars which are blown up versions of State cars.
I run the super 381 on my home layout with a few clearance modifications. The Brute will run with these same modifications.
I believe there are SGMA videos on You Tube showing the Black version from LCCA running at Trainfest 2014 or 2015.
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If MTH ever makes a something like a 600E they will eventually make it in Blue Comet colors.
For me there is no interest.
How would the Liberty Lines 600E look with those showroom cars, I wonder?
El Classico posted:How would the Liberty Lines 600E look with those showroom cars, I wonder?
A 600E is an extended 400E. In Tinplate it would better with regular State Cars. Although it would be more in scale with Showroom cars.
That sounds funny but most here know about O gauge. A scale Hudson looks very small with 21" scale cars. Especially when pulling about 15 cars which is what the real ones did. We were used to a scale Hudson pulling about 4 16" cars. Then about 8 18" cars. Then came the prototypical train and it just takes a while to get used to it.
In Standard Gauge the engines are generally oversized for the engines. The extreme example is a 400E pulling Blue Comet cars. It is just wrong but we are used to it.
The original Lionel standard gauge Blue Comet was pulled by a two-tone 390E, and the cars were more in proportion to that engine than the later 400E.
Boucher did, of course, make a twin-motored Blue Comet locomotive. It was not a Hudson, but then the real Blue Comet locomotives were Baldwin Pacifics, not Hudsons, so Boucher was actually on target with their 4-6-2 wheel configuration. I used to hear rumors at York that Mike wanted to make a Boucher Blue Comet but no one would lend him their original to disassemble so he could make the tooling. Probably an urban legend but who knows?
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Jim Kelly-Evans posted:Boucher did, of course, make a twin-motored Blue Comet locomotive. It was not a Hudson, but then the real Blue Comet locomotives were Baldwin Pacifics, not Hudsons, so Boucher was actually on target with their 4-6-2 wheel configuration. I used to hear rumors at York that Mike wanted to make a Boucher Blue Comet but no one would lend him their original to disassemble so he could make the tooling. Probably an urban legend but who knows?
A pity if it is true, those are beautiful engines.....
El Classico posted:Jim Kelly-Evans posted:Boucher did, of course, make a twin-motored Blue Comet locomotive. It was not a Hudson, but then the real Blue Comet locomotives were Baldwin Pacifics, not Hudsons, so Boucher was actually on target with their 4-6-2 wheel configuration. I used to hear rumors at York that Mike wanted to make a Boucher Blue Comet but no one would lend him their original to disassemble so he could make the tooling. Probably an urban legend but who knows?
A pity if it is true, those are beautiful engines.....
Some things are better left alone.
F&G RY posted:
Some things are better left alone.
I wish more things were left alone!!
Have you see the Creswell "Liberty Lines" Blue Comet 600E complete set with passenger cars for sale on Ebay. Been there for months, they want $7800 for it. Clearly one of a kind these days, good luck ever seeing a set like this any time soon." I think at half the price it would be snapped up quickly.
Look under Toys and Hobbies, I believe the item number is 591536046.
I have since sold my "Brute" and its four "Showroom" cars to a local collector friend here in Nashville. TOO big for my small bedroom layout!
F&G RY posted:Both the super 381 and Brute are prototypes rejected by Lionel in the pre war period. Both still exist today. Both engines are big for Standard Gauge. The super 381 goes well with regular State Cars. The Brute was grossly oversized for regular State cars so MTH made showroom cars which are blown up versions of State cars.
I run the super 381 on my home layout with a few clearance modifications. The Brute will run with these same modifications.
I believe there are SGMA videos on You Tube showing the Black version from LCCA running at Trainfest 2014 or 2015.
Jim,
You are correct. I ran my black LCCA BRUTE at Trainfest 2014 both pulling its matching black LCCA Showroom cars as well as my Standard Gauge circus train with its unique 211 flatcars each with two handmade 1:32 scale circus wagons. Below is a link to SGMA's video of Trainfest 2914 showing the black Brute in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7DIBFLi1zo
Bob Nelson
I can paint this one in two tone blue. This is a recent build of mine, modified version of the Harmon Hudson.
Jim
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GirderandPanel posted:Have you see the Creswell "Liberty Lines" Blue Comet 600E complete set with passenger cars for sale on Ebay. Been there for months, they want $7800 for it. Clearly one of a kind these days, good luck ever seeing a set like this any time soon." I think at half the price it would be snapped up quickly.
Look under Toys and Hobbies, I believe the item number is 591536046.
Too bad the guy has those cars linked to the engine. Cars are maybe worth $150 each, the engine, maybe $4k.
Jim
Since I started this thread, my preferences have changed. I no longer crave the Brutes or their ilk! For those that are fans of the BIG stuff, ENJOY!
Anyone want a giant Blue Comet building?
Scott Smith
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Jim Waterman posted:I can paint this one in two tone blue. This is a recent build of mine, modified version of the Harmon Hudson.
Jim
Jim,
Could you build and paint a Milwaukee Road CHIPPEWA (4-6-2) version?
Bob Nelson
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scott.smith posted:Anyone want a giant Blue Comet building?
Scott Smith
Yes, if its dimensions are right. What are its dimensions?
Bob Nelson
That a one of the large lanterns that Walmart had at Christmas. 
I am still doing some work on it. I really think there is a lack of options for houses for Standard Gauge and tinplate in general. Around Christmas you can usually find some raw metal houses sometimes with artificial snow stuck on them. I never can figure out what color to paint the raw metal. After bringing my trains back from the club I noticed a few scratches on some of my engines, so I went to Home Depot and had them match paint.
That's when I came up with the idea of painting the houses in traditional tinplate set colors. The large Blue Comet was the first one. I ordered 8 of these yesterday from Kohls and will have a set of Tintown Townhomes on the layout. BTW the original paint job on these suck. They look like a 5 year old painted them.
I plan on painting each of these in a famous tinplate colors.....Like a National Limited, Prosperity Special, MTH Tinplate Traditions, Lionel Celebration Series, Ives Cardinal, Ives Bankers Special, Ives Tiger (Halloween) and of course the Blue Comet.
I have even kicked around the idea of ordering more buildings and selling them in famous tinplate colors. It seems like a good idea, but then again maybe it's not. These buildings are 7.85"H x 4.90"W x 5.10"D. A good size to use with Standard or O-Gauge tinplate.
Scott Smith
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navy.seal posted:Jim Waterman posted:I can paint this one in two tone blue. This is a recent build of mine, modified version of the Harmon Hudson.
Jim
Jim,
Could you build and paint a Milwaukee Road CHIPPEWA (4-6-2) version?
Bob Nelson
Yeah, Bob, I could do a pretty good approximation, in typical tinplate fashion.
Jim
After having owned the Proto 2.0 "Brute" and the four-car green "Showroom" set, I have renewed appreciation for the "Tinplate Traditions"- size state cars I operate on my spare bedroom layout!
After seeing these showroom State Cars sitting on standard gauge track, they actually take on a scale realism. Passenger cars are always considerably wider than the rails upon which the ride. I grew up with my dad's William's reproduction state sets, both green and brown. They are big, but they are not scale proportioned to the rail gauge, these showroom cars look to be close, very close. Same goes for the Brute. In real life I look at some locomotives, especially D&RG narrow gauge and wander why that locomotive doesn't just tip over. I think the Brute rides very well on standard gauge track as does the showroom state cars. The standard gauge world have for decades acclimated to toy sized trains which in and of themselves are very large, but now a scale or near scale set has been produced and it truly is a monster. Even the Super 381, though it is still under sized model, it is impressive to watch.
Rjm: You have made a valid observation. Having run my P2 Brute with its four showroom cars on my 084 layout, I have to agree. Glad I once had that opportunity! :-)
Yet, now in the smaller confines of my spare bedroom with 072 curves, my 21" state cars now seem to "fit in", as it were, just fine behind their Lionel Classics dark gray 2-400E. Thus, it is all relative.
@Tinplate Art posted:Rjm: You have a valid observation. Having run my P2 Brute with its four showroom cars on my 084 layout, I have to agree. Glad I once had that opportunity! :-)
I've never seen these cars in person. Western Depot has a three-car set of these showroom models at $1499.99. In the spirit of my father, If I were to purchase a set, it would be either a super 381 with 6 cars, or the Brute with 8-10 cars. As they say here in Texas, go big or go home. Besides, everything here in Texas is BIG!! Why not my choo choo's? LOL
I first ran my Brute with my six 21" state cars, and it did not look so bad.
I've completely forgotton about the Buddy L trains. Has there ever been anything here on the OGR Fourm about them?
I first ran my all-black LCCA Brute on the SGMA layout at Trainfest 2014 in Milwaukee first pulling its matching all-black LCCA Showroom cars and then later pulling one of my circus trains. Both consists were real hits with the kids. You can see the LCCA Brute in action starting a 3:15 into the official SGMA video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7DIBFLi1zo
Bob Nelson
No doubt, it is still a remarkable and unique std gauge loco, but personally no longer having the space for such a monster, I am over it.
@Tinplate Art posted:No doubt, it is still a remarkable and unique std gauge loco, but personally no longer having the space for such a monster, I am over it.
Join SGMA and run your trains on a SGMA layout where you will have the space to run any Standard Gauge "monster" locomotive you might care to operate! That's what I have done and it's a "blast"!!!!
Bob Nelson
