How bout a Sunset 3rd Rail FP45

Good Day,

I have read and heard the words "Cowl Units" before.

http://atsf.railfan.net/cowls/whatis.html

Regards,

Swafford

Yes, and if one reads that site you linked to carefully, one will understand exactly why EMC/EMD "E" and "F" units are NOT "Cowl Units"!

I don't know if CSX ever ran one of those but whether they did or not I'd be very interested in a fantasy one in CSX livery or even an undecorated one.  Oh, it would have to be 2 rail scale.

Rick

Santa Fe..........................A Classic!

You've GOT to be kidding. I think you are confusing the FP45 with the Ugly EMD BL2 or GE U25B

NO MORE F3's or F7's! There's plenty of good models out there to choose from.

Any Santa Fe modeler would be happy to add the F45, FP45 or SDP40 to their roster. In either of the paint schemes.

A U30CG?

Just not going to happen.  Not enough demand.  Not even enough demand for MTH to update their tooling to 3-2 with decent pilots and fuel tank for theirs.

Really?  Sorry gang, but that locomotive has a face that only a mother could love.

 

And only on pay day.

 

How about some F-3s?

 

George

You are entitles to your opinion but like gp7's and 9's and gp38's the F units have been done to death. it's now time to move on from same old first generation units and explore the lesser produced second generation units...esp non EMD types!

So do you have an aversion to typing the EMD model designations correctly, or is it that you don't know how?

I don't think F or FP45 or SDP40f noses are bad.  Now, Alco DL109 or anything Baldwin (Black Marias, Centipedes, Sharknoses) those are just plain fugly. 

Interesting on page 14 of the April Trains issue just out the headline reads "Cowls in freight service" nice article.

So I broke down and picked up an MTH Proto 2 FP45 with plans to modify it into an SDP40F.  I'll need to study the two in depth now to see what might be involved with the modifications.  I know the fuel tank, fixed pilot and Kadees will be the first step.

Here's mine so far,

But they look just like an FP45; yeah right. 

Very nice work!  I knew they didn't look the same, but I never appreciated how different they were until this photo.  Looks like I have some work ahead of me.  Either that or back date the Super Fleet FP45 to 1968 and get the SF El Capitan.  NOT!

Are you repainting into Santa Fe, or Amtrak and if Amtrak what phase and where did you find decals?

Thanks for the photo.

Phase I Amtrak.  At O Scale West someone gave me an idea to copy HO decals enlarged to 181% on a color laser photocopier @600DPI.  I haven't done it to decal paper yet but to regular paper it works great.

The goal is a Phase I and Phase II SDP40F but just getting the one this far has been a PITA and several years of collecting stuff and thinking about how to go about it.

I asked Erik Stott of Midwestern to offer them in brass and I would reserve 4.  The total number reserved was...  4.  He also offered FP45s and got less than 10 reservations so both were dropped.  Overland offered FP45s 10 years ago and similarly got insufficient reservations.  Even the old brass KTM FP45s don't bring much, not even twice what the MTH brings.  So when I say there is no market... 

With the FTs now being AB only only 250 pairs need to be reserved and you know how well that is going.

quote:

I asked Erik Stott of Midwestern to offer them in brass and I would reserve 4.  The total number reserved was...  4.  He also offered FP45s and got less than 10 reservations so both were dropped.  Overland offered FP45s 10 years ago and similarly got insufficient reservations.  Even the old brass KTM FP45s don't bring much, not even twice what the MTH brings.  So when I say there is no market...

I dont disagree completely, but one variable has changed... the availability of cars.

Between Atlas adding the Amtrak line to the CZ cars, and Scott making Pullman sleepers, coaches, and now the Hi-levels, there's now trains in need of engines, rather than the other way around. By the time atlas finishes the CZ, I'll probably have nearly 20 single level cars (CZ plus GGD PS cars), as well a set of high levels. I need some engines now. I'm looking the same as you guys, as far as what to bash to get an SDP40F. 2 FP45s seems logical, I've got an F40PH in front of me that also looks like it could be scavenged for some hood doors, vents, etc...

Combine the ATSF version using FP45s, and I have a feeling you could assemble a run right now, especially if the price was more plastic than brass.

I wouldn't compare apples to oranges. I can tell you right now I wouldn't reserve an Overland model or KTM either, even now. I'm just not spending that kind of money on one engine. Especially when I would want 3 or 4 of them. I believe, in the same price range as the FP7/E7s, there would be plenty of reservations to complete an order of FP45s.  

Same here, I will have many more passenger cars now, that were not available in years past. The only thing I don't have now, is different/correct engines to pull them.

Quite frankly, I'd like a pair of correctly done ATSF FP45's. The big thing is the reservations. More reservations = lower price point once the minimum production threshold is exceeded. The CNW H1 buyers (myself included) paid about $200 more ($375 more for me because of $175 CA sales tax) for the engine because the production run barely exceeded the minimum to make the run. Find out what kind of minimum we'd be looking at and go from there.

That's for brass.  Much lower numbers work because of the higher price, as you noted.  You could probably get down to 100 FP45s/SDP40Fs at $1500 a pop.  Scott told me the builders are not interested in less than $120K TO THEM, not to purchasers, for a project. Where possible he combines things to make up those numbers where the builders will agree. 

That is how the Columbian was done at all.  Half was done with the Lark and half with the Broadway.  Complete Lark and complete Columbian at the same time was too too many different cars and paint all at one time. 

Good Day,

I wonder how many orders would be placed for the ATSF SDP40F and FP45?

Offer several different options may get to the 500 units.

1. DCC 2-Rail

2. DC 2-Rail

3. TMCC 3-Rail

Regards,

Swafford

 Sunset 3rd Rail uses a QSI Titan decoder in their 2 rail diesels. The same decoder and onboard software works for DC and DCC. It sees what type of power is on the rails and reacts accordingly.  AtlasO's Master Line 2 rail diesels  do similarly.  One 2 rail product helps keeps manufacturing and inventory costs down for Scott.

Ed Rappe

One locomotive that has been left out of this thread was the F40Cs built for Metra in Chicago.  While the F40PH was used extensively as well, the F40C was very successful in commuter service.

Originally posted by rdunni...

Here's mine so far...

Ok nice first step.

May I ask as to why you cut into the shell prior to the Dynamic brake section? I ask this because as I reviewed the plans posted on Both Model RR issues of the SDP40F and compare it to the FP45[which is what the MTH model isbased on], it appears both units are similar up to the Dynamic brake section[except 4 the cowl sides and silencer exhaust box on roof]. After that is where the "fun begins"

SDP40F:

http://trainiax.net/drawings/cd/cd-cmemdsdp40f.gif

http://www.trainweb.org/willst...ads/amtsdp40fiia.gif

FP45:

http://trainiax.net/drawings/3...36-emd-fp45-atsf.gif

http://www.trainweb.org/willst...lroads/atsffp45i.gif

May I ask what did you use as a fuel /water tank?

BTW, Have you filled in the Portholes on the cowl doors?

Because the dynamic brake grills are completely different from the FP45s.  The dynamic brake grills you see are from 2 K-Line F40 shells.  Actually, the entire roof from the air intakes to the back of the radiator are from K-Line F40s.  The latest incarnation of the MTH Premier F40s might work but the older F40s were just too wrong for me.  And of course the air intakes and the exhaust and the dynamic brakes and the radiators are all differently spaced from the F40 so...

Oh good, I guessed it had to be part F40, I didnt realize it was going to take 2 yet (I just got the MR issue with the drawings today).

What are you using for a frame? I was looking at using an SD50/60 frame as the wheelbase is within inches of correct, and it can be had with the new style 3/2 trucks, as well as HTC sideframes.

I'm using Overland SD60s.  I got 2 of them at $600 each.  And I can sell the shells for a couple of bucks.

originally from Rdunniii:

Because the dynamic brake grills are completely different from the FP45s.  The dynamic brake grills you see are from 2 K-Line F40 shells.  Actually, the entire roof from the air intakes to the back of the radiator are from K-Line F40s.  The latest incarnation of the MTH Premier F40s might work but the older F40s were just too wrong for me.  And of course the air intakes and the exhaust and the dynamic brakes and the radiators are all differently spaced from the F40 so...

Oh so that I am clear, you are kitbashing 2 K-line F40 Shells for the body of this SDP40F instead of Using MTH FP45's.. correct?

Nope.  2 MTH FP45 (shells), 2 Kline F40PHs (shells), 1 Overland F40PH (lots of parts including front and rear pilots and potentially the radiator inlets), 1 Overland SD60 (chassis, drive, trucks, fuel tank),  lots of other detail parts.

I had a discussion with Scott today regarding doing FP45s or SDP40Fs.  His feedback is there are not sufficient railroads for him to do either in plastic.

He said this is the same situation as the steam locomotives, Jawn Henry, etal being done in brass.  Therefore, he said the only potential way is brass and that would require at least 150 reservations for locomotives priced @$1250.

I'll sign up for 4+.  Anyone else?

Sounds expensive.  I bought a Max Gray MT-4 in 1962 for $235.  Today's money that would be over $1800.

I do not want one of these - I prefer PAs and SD-9s - but I would say " Now is your chance - these are bargains in brass!"

Opinion.

With a long enough lead time (which I assume there would be), I'd probably order 2 SDP40Fs. There was a comment in another thread about people asking at a 3rdRail GGD booth about power for the Amtrak version of the HiLevels... so it sounds like the there's at least a few people interested. Are we talking 150 of all the versions (SDP40F (with both noses?), FP45, F45, SDF40)? Or 150 of each? If the orders grossly exceed his minimum, would the price go down?

Yep...I would be in for a pair of these!!

Alan