How Do I Get An Engineer Card Without Working For A Railroad?

You will have to attend and successfully COMPLETE, an FRA approved Engineer's Training & certification program. I believe you will find that those certified Engineers on the 765 crew attended, and successfully completed, the program on the NS, and thus are certified by NS. You might want to ask them, there in Fort Wayne.

I would also think that one would have to be at least 21 years of age.

doubt if you will be able to get hired on with ANY railroad anytime soon. With the down turn in volume this year, most Class 1's still have many people laid off. Even the middle management has been given the boot with several different positions. I know that BNSF hasn't run any engine service classes and has no plans on running any for awhile.

Like you already heard, it's much easier said than done  

Laidoffsick posted:

doubt if you will be able to get hired on with ANY railroad anytime soon. With the down turn in volume this year, most Class 1's still have many people laid off. Even the middle management has been given the boot with several different positions. I know that BNSF hasn't run any engine service classes and has no plans on running any for awhile.

Like you already heard, it's much easier said than done  

Thanks! I think I will work for Chicago Fort Wayne & Eastern out of Ft. Wayne. But I will always be involved with steam.

You don't need to work for a railroad. You can get an engineer's license by volunteering at a tourist railroad that offers an FRA-approved Engineer's Training & Certification program.

You also may have to join a union such as the United Transportation union   or Brotherhood of locomotive engineers. Maybe not  for  a tourist line but for sure on a first class railway.  This will help  establish your seniority   date.

Sir,

here is a school you can attend.

http://modocrailroadacademy.com/engineer.htm

some more information..

http://study.com/articles/How_..._Career_Roadmap.html

FWRHS does not have its own CFR 240 Engineer Training Program. We don't have one because we rely on our engineers to have running experience and an engineers card from another railroad.

Railfan Brody posted:

I have a question for all of the engineers out there. I'm a FWRHS member and would like to be one of the engineers on 765 in the future. I'm not sure if I will work for a railroad, currently I'm debating on working for Norfolk Southern out of Peru, Indiana, or being a UPS pilot out of Louisville, KY. I was wondering if there is any way to get my engineer card if I work my way up through the ranks with the Fort Wayne Crew. I talked with Jason Sobczynski and he said that he was trying to acquire his card and that it is easier said than done. I know that firing would be a thrill, and I would be satisfied with that, but I would love to run 765 at track speed with 20 cars behind me. 

Engineers please let me know and everyone have a nice day! 

 

Young fella, the most certain way to become an engineer is to learn SAFE railroading from an entry level position.   These days that's usually a conductor trainee position.  And that's the way most everyone started.

You are young and right now the economy is in a downturn so getting a railroad job is not going to be easy right now.

BUT with patience and persistence AND the willingness to listen to "Old Heads" (experienced railroaders) like Rich and the fellows on here you will be on the path to getting your feet wet in railroading. 

Railroads will always need enthusiastic young guys like you.  But first you must prove that you are willing to LISTEN since the key to being a good railroader is being a safe railroader.    That comes from learning from the guys (and girls) who learned through experience. 

Unfortunately you can't buy your way into hauling few hundred souls lives or a few thousand tons behind a few million dollars worth of equipment.  

You'll get your chance to be in the right hand cab seat... you just have to be patient.

Good recommendations, RULE292.

One other VERY important thing for any and all young folks to remember; the VERY FIRST THING any prospective railroad will do, is perform a drug test. Thus, don't be trying any of that good smoking & drinking stuff!

I would also suggest some education. There are two schools offering courses in Railroading for those wishing to get "into the business."

Dakota County Technical College in Rosemount, Minnesota - Railroad Conductor Certification :

http://www.dctc.edu/academics/...onductor-technology/

Johnson County Community College in Overland Park, Kansas - Various Railroad Training Programs

http://www.jccc.edu/academics/...road/tab-credit.html

My son Went to Dakota County Technical College for his initial conductor training. He started with the railroad in 2013, as a conductor trainee and is now a Locomotive Engineer. As the economy levels out and there are more folks retiring from the railroads, the demand will once again pick up.

Either of the above mentioned programs are very highly rated and well regarded in the industry.

Hot Water posted:

Good recommendations, RULE292.

One other VERY important thing for any and all young folks to remember; the VERY FIRST THING any prospective railroad will do, is perform a drug test. Thus, don't be trying any of that good smoking & drinking stuff!

Hot Water, THIS should be Rule 1 not Rule G of railroading in the 21st century.

If you like to smoke a little weed or do a little drugs don't waste your time applying for a railroad job.  You'll get washed out or get fired or worse kill yourself or someone else.   Trains are big and heavy and they hit you and kill you if you're in their way.

Brody,

Since you seem to want to run steam locomotives, learning to run modern diesels won't give you a complete skill set. You will need to know about operational and mechanical issues that are unique to steam as well.

I suggest you start accumulating and reading the ICS (International Correspondence Schools) course books for steam locomotive engineers. You can find hard copies through various sources (abebooks.com is a good one), and many of the volumes are also available on CD.

You can learn basic train handling skills (braking distances, precise stopping, slack control, stretch braking, etc.) running a diesel-powered train, but there will still be a missing skill set with no steam experience.

A steam locomotive handles differently than a diesel. Some times that's good...and some times it's not.

GREENRAIL posted:

I would also suggest some education. There are two schools offering courses in Railroading for those wishing to get "into the business."

Dakota County Technical College in Rosemount, Minnesota - Railroad Conductor Certification :

http://www.dctc.edu/academics/...onductor-technology/

My son Went to Dakota County Technical College for his initial conductor training. He started with the railroad in 2013, as a conductor trainee and is now a Locomotive Engineer. As the economy levels out and there are more folks retiring from the railroads, the demand will once again pick up.

Dakota county technical colleges program has been suspended indefinitely. 

I'm curious, are there any mainline-qualified steam engineers that aren't in their 40s or 50s at the youngest?

I know of a few really young people who run steam (in a local case, the daughter of one of the engineers, who picked it up from her Dad), but they're all on small/isolated tourist/preservation lines. There are also some times when a young person is invited to work the throttle for a short while (like the same young woman I was referring to, as she's run with the UP and 4449 crews in the past).

I can't think of one person under the age of 50 who would regularly run a loco like the 765 or something comparable on the high iron.

I worked for NS for many years as a conductor and with them you start out as a conductor.  They will select you for engineers school when they have a need for more engineers.  And, that may take YEARS.  Stop in at their local yard office and pick up an application, you might be able to talk to someone (superintendent, road foreman, union person, etc)  about what you want to do while you are there.  As for their steam program, I'm sorry, I can't help you there.

Rick

p51 posted:

I'm curious, are there any mainline-qualified steam engineers that aren't in their 40s or 50s at the youngest?

I can't think of one person under the age of 50 who would regularly run a loco like the 765 or something comparable on the high iron.

You need to think a little more.

Now that I've retired, the 765's regular engineers, Zach Hall and Chris Lantz are both under 50.

OGR Webmaster posted:

p51 posted:

I'm curious, are there any mainline-qualified steam engineers that aren't in their 40s or 50s at the youngest?

I can't think of one person under the age of 50 who would regularly run a loco like the 765 or something comparable on the high iron.

You need to think a little more.

Now that I've retired, the 765's regular engineers, Zach Hall and Chris Lantz are both under 50.

Read that closer, I mentioned 40s as well.

Are there any mainline qualified steam crews in their 20s or 30s?

If you're a qualified engineman, know   road &  have passes the rules ,    What else do you need to qualify to run a steamer?   Experience or is there another set of rules?  

Gregg posted:

If you're a qualified engineman, know   road &  have passes the rules ,    What else do you need to qualify to run a steamer?   Experience or is there another set of rules?  

Experience and a really good working knowledge of "cause and effect" relative to how a steam locomotive works.

Gregg posted:

If you're a qualified engineman, know   road &  have passes the rules ,    What else do you need to qualify to run a steamer?   Experience or is there another set of rules?  

There is no other set of specific "rules" involved, but there is a completely different skill set and knowledge bank required to capably operate a steam locomotive.

Thanks  HW.   I've head stories that certain hoggers could get "more" out of a steamer than others. Some could even make a really bad day for the fireman... (chunks coming out the stack)

I suppose the same thing applies to a diesel but not as much,,, Some could get you over the road faster and smoother than others.

Is there an Age Limit for Engineman in the US?  Our  guys north of the border had to retire at age 65. I'm guessing that's still the case here.  

645 posted:

For a steam example NKP 765 was probably better than average for performance as I understand it was considered a favorite of the West End crews. That was supposedly a factor in its' being preserved (although renumbered to 767 to honor the city of Fort Wayne's request for the 767 as the 767 was in poor condition at the time) after retirement from NKP service. If I'm wrong on this I'm sure Rich will be along soon with a correction. 

I thought the real 767 had already been vacated and scraped, by the time NKP management agreed to donate the "767" to the city of Fort Wayne. Thus, the 765 was sitting dead in the East Wayne facility, and was thus selected to become "767". The whole process had nothing to do with operating condition of any of the 700 class locomotives that remained.

Gregg posted:

Is there an Age Limit for Engineman in the US?  Our  guys north of the border had to retire at age 65. I'm guessing that's still the case here.  

There's no age limit. As long as you can pass all the re-cert stuff, and the tests...you can still run. Several enginerss are over 65 and need to retire. Usually when it gets to the point where they dont want to go through all the tests....then they pull the pin. 

Thank you .

Gregg posted:

Thanks  HW.   I've head stories that certain hoggers could get "more" out of a steamer than others. Some could even make a really bad day for the fireman... (chunks coming out the stack)

Just a couple of notches one way or the other on the reverse gear can drastically change the way a steam locomotive runs...and the fireman's disposition.

Set the valve gear too far down a couple of notches and fuel consumption skyrockets. The engine makes a lot of noise but not a lot of power. At high speeds the engine will sound like a jet with a steady roar at the stack as opposed to a rapid-fire machine gun. The fireman loves it because he has a tremendous draft on the fire. As long as he can keep up with the water consumption, all's good on the left side. But the engine is not happy...

Set the valve gear too far up a couple of notches and everything changes in other ways. Fuel consumption drops, however so does the power. The running gear will complain with a little rod slap and other unpleasant mechanical noises because there is insufficient steam in the cylinders for the compression portion of the valve cycle. The fireman will begin to give you dirty looks because he has no draft on the fire. 

Get her hooked up on the "sweet spot" and life is good for all concerned - engineer, fireman and locomotive.

And she sounds like this:

To add to Rich's comments, above, it is one thing to have a nice heavy train behind a big steam locomotive on an ascending grade, i.e. throttle wide open and proper valve gear setting.  However, the real test comes when your "cruising speed" is attained and the throttle MUST be reduced, in order to not exceed the speed limit, and what the Engineer does with the valve gear THEN, is extremely important.

Hot Water posted:

645 posted:

For a steam example NKP 765 was probably better than average for performance as I understand it was considered a favorite of the West End crews. That was supposedly a factor in its' being preserved (although renumbered to 767 to honor the city of Fort Wayne's request for the 767 as the 767 was in poor condition at the time) after retirement from NKP service. If I'm wrong on this I'm sure Rich will be along soon with a correction. 

I thought the real 767 had already been vacated and scraped, by the time NKP management agreed to donate the "767" to the city of Fort Wayne. Thus, the 765 was sitting dead in the East Wayne facility, and was thus selected to become "767". The whole process had nothing to do with operating condition of any of the 700 class locomotives that remained.

No, 767 was still around when the city requested it, because there are pictures of 767 in the scrap line renumbered as 765 with the number white lined.  As far as I know, they were BOTH stored out of service at East Wayne Yard, the difference being that 765 had been kept in the engine house out of the weather for much of the time, AND 765 hadn't been rolled over like 767 was. I don't know how far the deception actually went, but I BELIEVE that as far as the NKP corporate bean counters were concerned, they donated 767 and scrapped 765.  Since the equipment trusts were expired, there was probably no reason for anyone to actually check too closely.  Someone who was involved told me that IF 767 had been the one preserved, they likely would never have tried to return it to operation.  And yes, 765 WAS a favorite of the crews, even to the point of being mentioned as such in the 1963 TRAINS magazine article about the NKP Berks, long before anyone could guess what the future held for the machine.

Running a steam locomotive is as much of an art as flying a prop-driven plane.

I have the technical knowledge to do so, but I'd hardly be good at it. That only comes with:

• A crazy amount of experience
• What I call, "The Touch"

"The Touch," to me, is an ability that you can't teach. Some people simply can't run a steam locomotive well, fly a plane, play piano, or draw a portrait no matter how much training and practice they can get. Some people take to it naturally, some have to learn a lot, but many never are able to pick up The Touch no matter how hard they work at it. Think of the people on those singing reality shows and how bad they cry when they're dropped because they want it so bad. Want means nothing. They didn't have The Touch, either.

And as for reverser settings, I have explained it best as something similar to the choke settings on an older car. You really need to have a feel for it to make the machine work well.

p51 posted:

Running a steam locomotive is as much of an art as flying a prop-driven plane.

I have the technical knowledge to do so, but I'd hardly be good at it. That only comes with:

• A crazy amount of experience
• What I call, "The Touch"

 

 Your P51 handle made me think of this.  From what I have read and heard over the years, the P51 was a dream to fly at altitude, but fully loaded with fuel and ammunition could be a real SOB to take off in.  A lack of "touch"  could lead to a crash.  It comes as no surprise that Chuck Yeager seemed to excel in planes that could be touchy like the P51 and the P39.

The crew (engineer, fireman, assistant fireman/brakeman), were all under 30 on the occasion of my cab ride on Western MD. Scenic #734 back on 9/27/2015.

p51 posted:

And as for reverser settings, I have explained it best as something similar to the choke settings on an older car. You really need to have a feel for it to make the machine work well.

It's more akin to a manual transmission on a car.

smd4 posted:

p51 posted:

And as for reverser settings, I have explained it best as something similar to the choke settings on an older car. You really need to have a feel for it to make the machine work well.

It's more akin to a manual transmission on a car.

Yeah, I know it doesn't mechanically translate; I was just referring to it being something you really need to know how it works to get the maximum efficiency out of it. So many people today have no clue how to work a choke on an old engine.

Borden Tunnel posted:

The crew (engineer, fireman, assistant fireman/brakeman), were all under 30 on the occasion of my cab ride on Western MD. Scenic #734 back on 9/27/2015.

I know of plenty of younger folks who run on slow-speed isolated tourist operations and museums. I was wondering if people this young run on the engines that do mainline running, like 765, 4449 and the like...

p51 posted:

Borden Tunnel posted:

The crew (engineer, fireman, assistant fireman/brakeman), were all under 30 on the occasion of my cab ride on Western MD. Scenic #734 back on 9/27/2015.

I know of plenty of younger folks who run on slow-speed isolated tourist operations and museums. I was wondering if people this young run on the engines that do mainline running, like 765, 4449 and the like...

Generally, no. The youngest FRA certified Engineer we have ever had on the 4449 crew, on a regular basis, was in his mid to late 30s. He is now approaching 50, and is a Road Foreman of Engines for Amtrak, out of Los Angeles. Currently, we have been "grooming" an excellent "young guy" who is in his early 40s, as he is also FRA certified, is an EXCELLENT Boilermaker/Machinist/Mechanic, and Fireman (on 4449). Hopefully he will get some "right hand seat" time next year.

p51 posted:

smd4 posted:

p51 posted:

And as for reverser settings, I have explained it best as something similar to the choke settings on an older car. You really need to have a feel for it to make the machine work well.

It's more akin to a manual transmission on a car.

Yeah, I know it doesn't mechanically translate; I was just referring to it being something you really need to know how it works to get the maximum efficiency out of it. So many people today have no clue how to work a choke on an old engine.

If people don't have a clue about how something works, then it really isn't giving them a useful analogy to help them understand a foreign concept.

While less and less folks know how to drive a stick shift, there are still enough who know, so that when I explain the process of "hooking up" the valve gear, they "get it." And working the Johnson Bar requires every bit of "the touch" as chokes. Maybe more so.

(Aside: In high school,  used to have an old Honda Civic wagon with no A/C, an AM radio, and a choke. I'd drive up the block to play basketball in the street with the guys, and as I approached, I'd pull the choke out. When I stopped and turned off the engine, the ear-splitting backfire usually got EVERYONE'S attention!)