How do they make sounds?

@GregK posted:

This might be a bit of a silly question, but how does Lionel etc produce the sound packages on modern engines? When the prototype still exists, do they record the real thing?

Yes.

For example, Lionel is producing the SD40T-2. The NYSW runs several of these in normal freight service. Do they do stuff like this?

They may not actually record those specific SD40T-2 units, but generally speaking ALL SD40-2 units sound the same.

Or are sound packages typically generic?

Well sort of, in that low horsepower roots blown prime mover EMD units generally all sound the same, and turbocharged EMD units tend to sound the same, i.e. GP40/SD40/SD45, etc.. The same applies to various GE units, and Also units.

I'll start off by saying I'm not an expert, I'm just a railfan who used to work at a hobby shop and filmed a bunch of product videos.

Whether there's a specific recording seems to depends on the model and prototype. For the engine in question, no, Lionel will not likely record a specific SD40T-2. They seem content to use an EMD 710 recording for SD40-2s (EMD 645) through at least said SD70s. In my opinion and based on personal observation, Lionel is a little lazier than MTH used to be; MTH at least had two 645 recording sets, separate SD70 and SD70ACe 710 recordings, and a GE 44-tonner recording, among others (i.e., they mostly tried to get prototypical prime mover sounds).

This is what your NYSW SD40T-2 will probably sound like:

To answer your question, manufacturers seem to record real-life sound clips, for the most part. If there's a specific locomotive that will sell a lot of copies and where a manufacturer can record in a controlled environment, they may record it. For example, I recall someone spotted MTH techs recording 425 before they released a run of USRA Pacifics, and I think MTH also released a new sound file for their Big Boys recorded from 4014. If it's not a unique prototype like those steam engines, I think manufacturers record real-life locomotives, but there's not a need to record sounds specific to the engines of a specific railroad. The 645 in an NYSW SD40T-2 sounds largely the same as an SD40T-2 on W&LE or B&P, save for the horn and possibly bell, which usually can be recorded separately and are also not unique to one railroad. Most manufacturers would probably just reuse the recording of any 16-cylinder 645, since most listeners couldn't distinguish the difference between an SD40-2, GP40, and SD40T-2 (I know I can't, if there is any).

Now, with audio processing AIs becoming as advanced as they are, maybe manufacturers will no longer need to do field recordings.

If you have the time, Rapido Trains has several videos on their YouTube of them going into the field to record FPA-2s and LRC power cars for their models; in both cases they had several hours and the run of the railroad (or a section of track) to get their recordings. In other videos, Rapido hinted that they've taken old video audio clips (e.g. TurboTrain horn sounds) and used that as the basis for their FX. That's one of the basis of my educated guesses above.

I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading that Neil Young recorded authentic real locomotive sounds for Lionel, which were used to make sounds for Lionel diesels and steamers. Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading that Neil Young recorded authentic real locomotive sounds for Lionel, which were used to make sounds for Lionel diesels and steamers. Arnold

If he did, he wasn't the first!, A number sound systems were out there ,before lionel ever did

@Dave Koehler posted:

If he did, he wasn't the first!, A number sound systems were out there ,before lionel ever did

As far as I know, Right of Way was the first with onboard digital sounds of the real thing.

Thirty some years ago, before Neil Young's involvement, there was a presentation at Overland Models for the Lionel team by RoW.  We presented whistles, bells and variable chug. 

Attendees were:

Overland Models:  Tom Marsh

Lionel:  Dick Kughn, Art Peisner, Dan Cooney, Mike Braga, Lenny Dean.

RoW: Bill Benson, Ed Pinske, and me.

Rather than buy into the RoW design, Lionel went to a custom chip maker in California.  They got three chips:  whistle, bell, and chug.  Because it was a custom chip (as opposed to a programmable memory EPROM) they had to buy 10,000 of each.  They were used in the remake of the pre war 0-6-0.

Bill and I would go out into the field with my wife's battery powered cassette recorder and then come back and load sounds into an IBM 386 that had an ANTEX board.  The 8kHz, 8 Bit depth data would be stored in an EPROM and decoded by an OKIdata IC.  State of the art back then.  And for whistles that were no longer available, we would go to one person that had a whistle collection and he would play them for us.  The PRR T1 was just the best!  There's a wav file somewhere here on the Forum when folks were complaining about Lionel's T1 whistle and I provided the correct sounds.

Somewhere I have the meeting notes and I still have the recorder.

Lou N

@GregK posted:

This might be a bit of a silly question, but how does Lionel etc produce the sound packages on modern engines? When the prototype still exists, do they record the real thing? For example, Lionel is producing the SD40T-2. The NYSW runs several of these in normal freight service. Do they do stuff like this? Or are sound packages typically generic?

OK for those who are interested; here's how digital audio works.

The speaker moves back and forth creating sound pressure.  Suppose I measure the location of the speaker cone 10,000 times a second (this is not possible but stand by).  So I now have 10,000 locations per second and if I put these numbers (locations) in a memory and play them back at 10,000 times per second, I have moved the speaker cone duplicating the audio that was recorded. 

Of course with a computer I can generate these locations in real time and burn a memory to duplicate the sounds.

Questions?

Lou N

Yes Lou, can sounds now be extrapolated from Youtube as well as films and DVDs?

Applications (many of them free) are available to download YouTube videos with the option of just saving the audio. You can then bring said files into a free/open source sound editor like Audacity to further edit clips into sound files that can be looped nearly seamlessly (dependent on your patience/determination and the quality of the recording)

In short, yes.

---PCJ

That’s very interesting Lou, thank you.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Yes Lou, can sounds now be extrapolated from Youtube as well as films and DVDs?

There are sound programs as mentioned above by RailRide.  I use Sound Forge.  Open the YouTube video and the audio program.  Click RECORD on that program.  Start the YouTube video and you can copy the audio from YouTube.

Keep in mind Alan Arnold's copyright warnings.  Some audio may be copyrighted and do not use them commercially. 

Lou N