How I "ruined" a semi-rare postwar Lionel olive drab caboose

It's your property to do with as you please.

I wouldn't call it ruined. Just improved what Lionel should've done.

I am not a purist by any means, and the caboose is Rare not semi rare, with a rating of R-7 out of 8.  After looking at some sold items from Liveauctioneers of past sales, the price range on average ran from $400-$700 range, with some a lot lower and some high, with one being sold in 2004 for $1500 (Like New Condx).  The gondola has a lower rarity rating of R-5 out of 8, and the range (average price sold) ran in the $150-$200 range.

As CW pointed out, they are yours, to do as you please, and if it make you happy, than that is all that matters.

TeleDoc posted:

I am not a purist by any means, and the caboose is Rare not semi rare, with a rating of R-7 out of 8.  After looking at some sold items from Liveauctioneers of past sales, the price range on average ran from $400-$700 range, with some a lot lower and some high, with one being sold in 2004 for $1500 (Like New Condx).  The gondola has a lower rarity rating of R-5 out of 8, and the range (average price sold) ran in the $150-$200 range.

As CW pointed out, they are yours, to do as you please, and if it make you happy, than that is all that matters.

Interesting. It appears the caboose could be returned to its original state. If so, if it were mine it would headed down the road for that kind of money.

Pete

it's your to do as it pleases YOU, not me or anyone else. a lot of people would have seen nothing more than an old toy, and tossed it long ago. I would have upgraded it too.

Norton posted:

TeleDoc posted:

I am not a purist by any means, and the caboose is Rare not semi rare, with a rating of R-7 out of 8.  After looking at some sold items from Liveauctioneers of past sales, the price range on average ran from $400-$700 range, with some a lot lower and some high, with one being sold in 2004 for $1500 (Like New Condx).  The gondola has a lower rarity rating of R-5 out of 8, and the range (average price sold) ran in the $150-$200 range.

As CW pointed out, they are yours, to do as you please, and if it make you happy, than that is all that matters.

Interesting. It appears the caboose could be returned to its original state. If so, if it were mine it would headed down the road for that kind of money.

 

Pete

Agreed

and if it were mine it would have US Army markings as well.

Steamer posted:

and if it were mine it would have US Army markings as well.

Yeah, I want to put a star on it and am open to specific suggestions for appropriate markings!

As a teenager I repainted my 614, 6470, 3665, 6844, and 6816.  So I  helped make the unpainted / undamaged engines and cars more valuable and rare. And my parents helped, they burnt the like new boxes that the engine/cars came in after I got married.

Seriously, why not make a collector happy (not me) and sell the caboose. Then buy 40-80 SP cabeese and paint them every color of the rainbow that suits your fancy. You might even have few bucks left for the switcher or 3.

Pete

RMT, Marx and Kusan all made olive drab cabooses with suitable markings.  Lionel didn't bother with any markings!

Here is the Lionel 1061 Scout loco which was in the same mixed batch of stuff with the olive drab caboose and gondola. I fixed it, it runs well. I added pilot and trailing wheels, crosshead guides, headlight with lens, and improvised a replacement pilot, so it's not original but it's enhanced. The 1061 loco and tender with olive drab caboose and gondola could have been an uncataloged 19338 set from about 1964.

Also in the same batch of stuff was an unpainted unlettered 6502 blue 10-inch flatcar and a single black Lionel bridge plate-girder (not U S Steel) which might have been furnished as a load for the flatcar. That flatcar is supposedly rare and was only furnished in a couple sets circa 1963, I think. It's curious that I got these somewhat rare items in one batch.

Interesting. It appears the caboose could be returned to its original state. If so, if it were mine it would headed down the road for that kind of money.

The challenge with remounting that shell to the correct chassis are the mounting tabs that hold everything together. It can be difficult to bend the tabs open to get the donor chassis free, and then reclose them on the desired shell. The tabs often crack and/or break off. But it can be done.

As I wrote earlier, what anyone does with their own property is their business.

There is a very small voice in me that at times said, "leave things alone you will ruin it" or "you will make it less valuable". Then I thought if I ruin it so what, it won't be the end of the world. Also in regards to my thoughts on making it less valuable, the question is less valuable to whom? If by fixing it your way and you obtain more pleasure out of it as a result, then you have made it worth more to you then the few dollars you might get with a sale. I am currently modifying a MPC shovel that I really would like to make look more like the Lionel postwar version. Probably it's value will go down upon modifying it, but my pleasure in creating something I like goes way up. So in the end I feel I win with the enjoyment of creating something I will really like and money should not even enter in my decision (well maybe a little). Like has been said, it's yours to enjoy the way you want and not for collector value if any.

Ace, You got it right that it was Set #19333 from 1964.  It was only the four car military set, and there were only 1160 sets made, and sold by Firestone.  Verified by Schmid's Promotional Guide.

C W Burfle posted:

Interesting. It appears the caboose could be returned to its original state. If so, if it were mine it would headed down the road for that kind of money.

The challenge with remounting that shell to the correct chassis are the mounting tabs that hold everything together. It can be difficult to bend the tabs open to get the donor chassis free, and then reclose them on the desired shell. The tabs often crack and/or break off. But it can be done.

As I wrote earlier, what anyone does with their own property is their business.

The "correct chassis" for this olive drab caboose was a basic piece of soft sheet-metal which was also used on a lot of cheap lackluster cabooses. It has just two metal tabs to retain the body, one at each end, which are good for an occasional bend without breaking. In this photo you can see how I bent them up to release the body. The conspicuous tabs look crappy and the caboose just doesn't look right without end railings. I can't see the point of making it "original".

To me the real value with this caboose is in creating something unique with better features. I acquired all of my train items for my own fun, not for resale and profit. Many of them required substantial work to make them operable. I consider myself fortunate to have acquired a few pretty good items at modest prices.

There is a long personal story behind the batch of train stuff that I acquired with this caboose and I will post it in another thread.

Sorry to belabor the point but you imply you are frugal and like to modify train items to suit your tastes. I get the frugal and modifying part. I am hardly a purest. More than half of my post war has been restored, repainted, or modifed to look like new or something it wasn't originally. I have taken 6257 cabooses and added detail to make them like a 6457. 

The part I don't get is taking a item some say might be worth 4 figures to someone else and turning it into something maybe worth ten bucks tops when you can start with something worth 5 bucks and do the same thing.

If you wanted an army green 6456 hopper would you start with a common black or maroon one or repaint a glossy red one? Or take a solid shield Rutland 6464 and repaint it?

Pete

"To me the real value with this caboose is in creating something unique with better features. I acquired all of my train items for my own fun, not for resale and profit. Many of them required substantial work to make them operable."

I think you're onto something there........

As a teenager I repainted my 614, 6470, 3665, 6844, and 6816.  So I  helped make the unpainted / undamaged engines and cars more valuable and rare. And my parents helped, they burnt the like new boxes that the engine/cars came in after I got married.

LOL, I guess I've helped make other's stuff more valuable and rare from time to time too.

 

Norton posted:

Sorry to belabor the point but you imply you are frugal and like to modify train items to suit your tastes. I get the frugal and modifying part. I am hardly a purest. More than half of my post war has been restored, repainted, or modifed to look like new or something it wasn't originally. I have taken 6257 cabooses and added detail to make them like a 6457. 

The part I don't get is taking a item some say might be worth 4 figures to someone else and turning it into something maybe worth ten bucks tops when you can start with something worth 5 bucks and do the same thing.

If you wanted an army green 6456 hopper would you start with a common black or maroon one or repaint a glossy red one? Or take a solid shield Rutland 6464 and repaint it?

Pete

My modifications have been minimal and reversible so far. I could stick the olive drab caboose body back onto the original crappy frame if I wanted to. Take off the ladders, no end coupler, no window insert, make it "original". Woo-hoo. Like a lot of other crappy no-feature 1960's cabooses Lionel made that you can get at a train show for $2, the only difference being the color of the plastic.

If I tried to sell this caboose for the supposed book value ($200?) someone would point out every little surface scratch and find fault with it to knock the price down. To heck with that. I appreciate it as a rare body color and I actually run it sometimes. Plus there is a long personal story behind the batch of old trains it came with.

Ace posted:

Norton posted:

Sorry to belabor the point but you imply you are frugal and like to modify train items to suit your tastes. I get the frugal and modifying part. I am hardly a purest. More than half of my post war has been restored, repainted, or modifed to look like new or something it wasn't originally. I have taken 6257 cabooses and added detail to make them like a 6457. 

The part I don't get is taking a item some say might be worth 4 figures to someone else and turning it into something maybe worth ten bucks tops when you can start with something worth 5 bucks and do the same thing.

If you wanted an army green 6456 hopper would you start with a common black or maroon one or repaint a glossy red one? Or take a solid shield Rutland 6464 and repaint it?

Pete

My modifications have been minimal and reversible so far. I could stick the olive drab caboose body back onto the original crappy frame if I wanted to. Take off the ladders, no end coupler, no window insert, make it "original". Woo-hoo. Like a lot of other crappy no-feature 1960's cabooses Lionel made that you can get at a train show for $2, the only difference being the color of the plastic.

If I tried to sell this caboose for the supposed book value ($200?) someone would point out every little surface scratch and find fault with it to knock the price down. To heck with that. I appreciate it as a rare body color and I actually run it sometimes. Plus there is a long personal story behind the batch of old trains it came with.

Can we hear it?

El Classico posted:

Ace posted:

... Plus there is a long personal story behind the batch of old trains it came with.

Can we hear it?

I just posted it:

https://ogrforum.com/t...i-originally-thought

Some years ago a friend gave me this which he came across while cleaning out unwanted stuff.  He's a nut "mint in the unopened box - factory sealed" kind of guy.  Later he told me that he didn't know the worth, but I could keep it since he did give it to me.

It's put away in some box somewhere.  When I do find it I will return it to him.

Alan