HOW MANY DIESELS?

That's more than enough motive power. Those cars are all good rollers, so even 2 is enough.  Give it a try

FWIW, I am 3 rail and realize there are some differences here, but I have an MTH Railking Scale SD45 (30-20200-1 and SD40-2R on the cab) that will easily pull 16-18 scale cars of mixed freight through O-54 & O-63 diameter curves and O-54 & O-72 switches. I imagine it would easily pull 20 cars, but haven't yet tried it with that many. 

I am guessing this engine is pretty close to yours, only a 3 rail version and RK instead of Premier. My layout is all flat with no grades though. I would wait for some of the 2 railers to reply with more exact details, but I am thinking this might give you a rough idea of what it will pull.

I assume since this a 2 rail, you mean 50 inch radius.    You should have no problems with a train that long and I would guess one loco would handle it, but 2 look better.    

My experience is that there is a magic number between 25 and 30 cars where you start having derailments on many layouts.    Under 25 never seems to be a problem for me regardless of the mixed weight of the cars.    Those are pretty free rolling cars too.

Whatever it takes.

Simon

I would think the two 4 axle units would be enough, but all 3 would be better for "cool factor" alone.

Since all the cars are the same, they weigh the same, and roll freely, so string lining the train in the curve shouldn't be an issue. Even if you have all different types of cars, just make sure the weight is up to standards or put the light cars on the rear.

I know different engines and cars and quantity of cars but I had a Lionel PA1 with dual can motors with TMCC pulling a non-power PB1, 12 atlas 33,000 gl tank cars, 2 Atlas 53' plug door boxcars all with no problem at all. Atlas cars are easy to roll/pull. I was pulling O-54 and O-72 so in two rail I believe thats 104 and 144

You should have no problem with maybe even one engine I would think

2 rail is a different ball game.... no traction tires. Sure in 3 rail one engine will pull 25-30 cars... it has traction tires. In 2 rail, you're gonna spin your wheels. 

hello guys and gals........

I just needed ONE small rallking NW-2 switcher which I purchased 2 weeks ago to pull 5 cars for my 36 by 78 layout using 031 curves.  I have a big brass Texas type engine but cannot run it unless the use 099 curves or bigger due to overhang so not sure what to do with it ? I see that small diesel are more fun to operate in small given space.

Tiffany

Laidoffsick posted:

2 rail is a different ball game.... no traction tires. Sure in 3 rail one engine will pull 25-30 cars... it has traction tires. In 2 rail, you're gonna spin your wheels. 

Not all 3r have traction tires some are plain, non-magnetraction;, nor do they all pull 25 cars , but some can.  Weight on the engine is the real key isn't it? I know 2r has a narrower footprint, but cant it have more of it on the rail, both being flater?

I've wondered about the metallurgy and finish of 2r for traction. Like HO, or N, It's finish seems smoother and harder; easy rolling, but less traction. But that's just perception, not experience.

25 ??....A two motor per engine , 2 engine train would be my estimate for a minimum without putting a lot of wear on the units. 

Things like how many? can come down to track type, to just plain luck. IMO.

2 will do. 

On level track, one will do the job, based on my experience with Weaver and other single motor diesels.   I also have some doubles.    I h ave no traction tires.   I don't like them ( I actually much stronger feelings about them).

Usuallly in 2 rail, we define curves by radius, not diameter.   In 3 rail, you tend to use diameter.    Hence 072 is 72 inch diameter circle (total width).    In 2 rail that would be 36 inch radius or what is required to curve 90 degrees.   

Alan Hummel posted:

How many diesels are needed to pull 20 Atlas 5161s? 

I have an MTH GP38&a GP40 as well as a MTH SD40-2-what are my options?

These will be coming off straight track,through 1 end of the yard ladder which are all Atlas #5's out onto the main & when completed,will negotiate 50" curves. My width will be around 17ft to get to the other side of the basement before hitting planned straight track.

Will that be too many cars going around that size curve? I mean will the pull on the train in mid length caused by part of the train on the other side of the basement & the engine end entering the new straight track,cause the train to derail mid length?

Thank you all for your answers in advace.

Al Hummel

Allen,

That will definitely work. I even once posted somewhere here a video run by of a grain train of about 20-22 of these cars in two rail behind a pair of two-rail MTH engines. My layout is "3RS" with 40.5 inch curves. They are rated for 36 inch radius in two-rail and you won't have a problem at 50 inches.

RM

It depends on the rolling characteristics of the cars. Atlas cars tend to roll pretty well, but what I've noticed is that my 2-rail cars seem to roll better than their 3-rail versions in testing my Santa Fe PS4427 hoppers collected before and after my switch to scale wheels. This might be related to the friction of the fast-angle wheels vs. the nickel-plated flat-tread (RP25) scale wheels. The only 20+ car test I've done isn't applicable to your situation (three scale-wheeled C40-8W's) but they didn't slip on the grades and didn't seem to sweat pulling the cars on level track through 48" radius (O-96) curves.

This video shows Atlas SW9's and a GP7. Click on the image.

Alan,

Realistically what scenario are you wanting to replicate? I assume you're looking at some part of the current CSX system?  For example, a local train movement on a branch line?  Reason I ask is that, any one of the prototype equivalent locomotive models could pull this load in most operating conditions.  Like the prototype depending on the terrain, track conditions, operating rules, etc... you may choose to add a second locomotive.

All that being said, For example, if you just take those 3 locomotives out of the box and place them into service with no additional weight consideration based on the description of the track conditions you may want to add a 2nd locomotive to more effectively keep the train running without experiencing a stall situation.  

BTW,  what kind of train control did you decide on?  What voltage and how many amps will your control system support?

Mike Deberg,

1st I have DCS with MTH Diesels,which never having DCC for comparison,I am pleased with.

Second,my layout will be flat.

Tankers,lumber,boxcars&especially grain cars are the favored rolling stock.

With my 50ftx17ft space,I'm constantly trying to locate where industries will be most at home at.(?) I have a north 50ft wall that's a clear shot. The south wall,has a 16ft area,then water equipment that occupies roughly 22ft,then I have about 12 more ft open to me. The east wall is a 25ft open shot,the west wall has roughly 11ft open. The walls all have 4tier shelving on which I plan to use the second tier which is approximately 37" from the floor to the top of that second level. The width of the shelves is 23" from my support 2'x4's, This gives roomenough 4-5 tracks minimum. I have to dodge the 2'x4' upright supports,so it's a challenge.

I had the basement open,'till we moved my wife's things from her house,now the shelves are largely full plus most open area is challenged,but I can work around it with a lot of moving.

I plan on using my GP's for my local as the prototype does this with exception. I've seen as many as 3 Gp15's on it or as little as 1 higher power 6 axle unit depending on that day's work load. My goal is to add another GP plus a 6 axle of some type but finances aren't even close for that.

This will give you an idea of the challenges at present.

The thing I'm working in my mind with now,is what type of building materials I should be using? I'm thinking 1/8th plywood would be good for longer buildings,i.e. my paper factory,which will have a Kraft mill,Boiler house & Paper Mill itself. The material will have to be affordable yet durable.

That's all for now.

As always,

Al Hummel

Alan,

So 20 Trinity 5161's will be about 24' in length plus the length of the locomotive(s) on straight and level track one locomotive certainly can pull that train.  Realistically the length of your train will need a minimum of 28' in a passing siding, are you planning for any operations and is that the longest train length you plan on having?

To scale down the type of operations for your railroad, you will need to think about the max length and weight of your train so you can determine how much horsepower is required, as the prototype does in your example.   Are you thinking you might try and load the covered hoppers to simulate a loaded car vs an empty?   Many guys do this but for moving coal, would be nice to see this done with grain or other bulk commodities in O scale since we can do that!  Also plays nicely into the effort on the horsepower, Amp draw provides feedback into many sound decoders (DCC primarily) increasing the engine RPM's, the DCS guys may know if DCS can do that?  You'll get some really great effects even on a flat railroad!   Being that the bins on the 5161 do not open (unless you pull the hatch off) the unloading would be the issue.  Might have to use that big hook in the sky to dump the load and return the empties to the mill.

In terms of the type of plywood, are you talking for actually building the structures or supporting the structures?  For supporting the structures, it doesn't matter for sub roadbed for track or structures, the weaker the base, more supports are required, usually closer together to maintain the stability.  Certainly factors like how much weight will the base need to support?  What is the structure built from? Is this an area where operators may put other items during operations?  The structural engineers can correct me, but I've always worked off the basis the more layers in the plywood, the more stable the plywood will be, with all that surface area that the bonding glue is applied throughout those layers.  

Mike DeBerg,

Was originally looking at sheet styrene for walls,with about 1/8x1/8" wood strips for support. But when the tower on my kraft Mill is about 30" high.I don't know? Never had to consider that much size before. Was just to hobby shop & the 1/8" supports are cheap enough but sheet styrene gets costly fast.

The 20 car train wood be the exception not the norm by any means. In HO,24 car grain trains seemed resonable though I never pulled 1,but in O Scale I need to cut that back to 10 cars being my 4750s&5161s will be normal grain train lengths I'm thinking.

Operations i'm thinking should be heavy near my 50' length of wall, as that will house the yard making train movements there easy to "dispose of" as I can classify them in & out of the yard. That's not my favorite way of movement but O scale changes things due to the increased size.

My emphasis will be heavy on switching industries around the layout not so much on through trains.

Thank you.

Al Hummel

Alan,

When you are ready to buy styrene sheet for your buildings, check with a local plastics supply house first.  Many will offer styrene in 4 X 8 sheets (or cut down into 2 X 4 sheets).

I bought .060" sheets this way and when compared to the largest Evergreen sheets it was ridiculously inexpensive.

Jim

Jim,

Thank you VERY MUCH!

Do you have any names in mind?

Al

Nope.  Google "plastic supply" or "supplier" combined with your zip or town name and you should get some results.

There will always be some national companies that show up.  Ignore them and look for local companies.  No need to pay for shipping.  

If your town is too small then check the closest decent sized town.  I'm guessing that would be South Bend or Fort Wayne in your case.

Start with one that sounds good.  If they don't have what you need or don't do retail, then they can almost certainly tell you who does.

Happy hunting!

Jim

Jim,

Thank you for the advise.

Al Hummel

The next best option if you don't have a local manufacturer or wholesaler is probably a decent sized sign maker. I was able to get several sheets of 4' x 8' 80-thou white styrene for my backdrops from our local sign maker at "trade price plus a beer" (in folding money), when he placed his next bulk order from the manufacturer. Plus ask for a look through their offcuts recycling bin as well. Amazing what you can find at scrap plastic prices.