With recent statements coming from the NTSB, The question needs to be asked is how strong are those loco front windows? Can they stop a bullet?
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I suspect they're at least strong enough to stop a substantial piece of rock ballast at 250+ MPH. They would have to be, or what's the point? ! The Lexan plates installed in PC and Amtrak windows back in the early '70s would stop a .38 Spl. at point blank range.
Originally Posted by prrhorseshoecurve:
With recent statements coming from the NTSB, The question needs to be asked is how strong are those loco front windows? Can they stop a bullet?
Yes they can indeed stop a bullet, however the second question is just what caliber and velocity bullet?
Originally Posted by Matt A:
Granted it wasn't a windshield, but, I had a turkey shatter one of those small side windows (wind deflectors) and I was only going 30 mph.
Next time, defrost the bird.
From 49CFR223:
10) The Test Specimen for glazing mate- rial that is intended for use in end facing glazing locations shall be subjected to a Type I test regimen consisting of the fol- lowing tests:
(i) Ballistic Impact in which a standard 22 caliber long rifle lead bullet of 40 grains in weight impacts at a minimum of 960 feet per second velocity.
(ii) Large Object Impact in which a cinder block of 24 lbs minimum weight with dimen- sions of 8 inches by 8 inches by 16 inches nominally impacts at the corner of the block at a minimum of 44 feet per second velocity. The cinder block must be of composition ref- erenced in American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) Specification C33L or ASTM C90.
44 feet per second is 30 MPH.
The .38 Special statement sounds better than that of a .22, although I have not heard
just what may have hit the windshield of the Philly train, however, military calibers,
as for the M-16 and AK-47, as well as magnum and other more powerful pistol calibers
are readily available. I assume there are federal laws in place, and that shooting at
trains falls into the terrorism category.
With cameras everywhere, I would think there would be front and side sweeping
cameras on passenger locos and cars to capture some vandal beside the tracks. Too
bad it is now that kind of world.
With cameras everywhere, I would think there would be front and side sweeping
cameras on passenger locos and cars to capture some vandal beside the tracks. Too
bad it is now that kind of world.
What good would that do, given the expense and the fact hoods wear hoodies!!
Originally Posted by Big Jim:
Originally Posted by Matt A:
Granted it wasn't a windshield, but, I had a turkey shatter one of those small side windows (wind deflectors) and I was only going 30 mph.
....but was your first reaction to then go 100 MPH?
I had posted this on a similar thread. Boston transit from Canton to South Station. Note the bars in front of the windshield. The bars would inhibit damage from a cinder block/stone. At the least this would indicate that projectiles are a common problem.
Riding my bike, a Canadian Goose took offense to my presence and launched off the ground near the bike trail right at me. I stiffen, and lower my head, oh shoot 
. He hit my left side, feathers flew, I wasn't hurt, nor was the bird. Quite a jolt. Return trip the bird was still there, didn't launch the second time. Most airports have systems in effect to eliminate the birds. From LaGuardia/ New York a few years ago, a bird strike put a passenger plane in the Hudson River.
Would my first reaction be to go 100 mph? No, my first reaction would be to hit the floor, assuming--and this is a big assumption--that I hadn't been hit and knocked down.
We know now that the train was hit and he may have been. Either he went to the floor when it happened or--and this is also possible--the controls themselves were struck. By the time he was able to grab for them, his instinct (and training) to put the train in emergency was exactly the wrong thing to do.
Originally Posted by RickO:
Originally Posted by Big Jim:
Originally Posted by Matt A:
Granted it wasn't a windshield, but, I had a turkey shatter one of those small side windows (wind deflectors) and I was only going 30 mph.
....but was your first reaction to then go 100 MPH?
I'm going to pretend I didn't read your smart*** reference to another thread and answer the first part of the question.
My first reaction was to get out of the way as I saw his kamikaze flight path coming since he first took off from the edge of the right of way. BTW, this happened at 10 o'clock at night, when all good turkeys should have been in their roost!
Originally Posted by Big Jim:
I'm going to pretend I didn't read your smart*** reference to another thread and answer the first part of the question.
My first reaction was to get out of the way as I saw his kamikaze flight path coming since he first took off from the edge of the right of way. BTW, this happened at 10 o'clock at night, when all good turkeys should have been in their roost!
It wasn't intended to be a smart*** reference to you, or your turkey incident.
Your the engineer I am not, I appreciate your input.
Early reports say the train accelerated for 65 seconds prior to the wreck. Something may have hit or been shot at the cab. A SEPTA engineer reported something hitting the windshield at that location and put the train in emergency.
How much windshield damage was from flying ballast, catenary etc?
Was the head injury from whatever hit the windshield, or from being thrown around the cab of a locomotive as it left the tracks and abruptly came to a stop from over 100mph?
Could he have been knocked unconcious by whatever hit the cab and fallen on the throttle? How much effort is required to increase the throttle? Would this be possible?
The accelerting thing sounds suspicious, maybe I'm all wrong. We've certainly witnessed airline pilots making huge errors or fatal choices ending in tragedy.
Hmmm..on the news tonight, there WERE camera pictures of the train as the accident
occurred. Hoods wear hoodies and rob banks, too, and get caught from some detail
recognized by acquaintances. Cameras might at least establish whether an object was
thrown at the train, identify it, and from that trace it to the source (building rubble in the area?), common loiterers that hang out there, and......??
