How to correct "engine in remote" when adding a DCS engine

Are both set to the same id ? Maybe both are id 1 ?

have you tried resetting the remote back to original from its own software?

Delete the engines and add them again.  Only have one engine on the track each time you add the engine.

Four engines added ok to TIU 1 and work fine.  A PS2 P-5 and PS3 New Haven Rectifier are not in the remote at all.  When I try and add them, I get the "engine in remote"  message.  If I go to info in the advanced menu, here too,  only the four engines that I have working successfully show up.  I have done resets on the TIU but not the remote.  I should mention that I had been experimenting with adding a second TIU to add DCS to a different power district.  All six engines worked in that scenario but response time slowed down in both regular and super modes.   So I decided to go back to a single TIU serving one power district and  now have this situation.   The second TIU I mention  still has power going from all four outputs  to a second power district.  But this TIU was deleted from the remote.   Also, when I am adding engines to TIU 1, I make sure that  this TIU is shut off with no power going to it!    I thought Barry's book mentioned the "engine in remote " message but I could not find it.   Phil 

I'd get back to one TIU and one remote.  Reset the remote and TIU.  Then add the two problem engines, one at a time on the tracks.  If they add, then work on the others.

Hi Phil,

Follow John's advice and start over with a fresh reset on both the remote and TIU.  Add the engines one at a time starting with the current problem engines.  If either of them still won't add, try the recover engine feature.

MENU > SYSTEM > ENGINE SETUP > RECOVER ENGINE

Here's a little info on how the "add engine" process works that might help explain your problem.  When you press the thumbwheel on "add MTH engine," the remote sends a global interrogation command.  The TIU responds by sending back a list of the ID numbers of all powered engines on the track.  The remote then compares this list from the TIU with the list of ID's already stored in the remote.  If one or more (this is why you should add engines one at a time) of the ID's is not already in the remote, the remote sends a unique interrogation command to the highest ID not already in use.  The TIU replies with the name and softkeys for that engine.  Adding the highest ID first ensures that any engines that have already been added to another remote will get picked up before a brand new or factory reset engine.  This is sort of a hold over from the early days of DCS before we could download remote data files.

The tricky part is what happens when the TIU's initial list only includes engine ID's that are already in the remote.  The remote starts doing unique interrogations of each ID number on the TIU's list.  One by one the TIU sends back the name and softkeys of each engine and compares the name with the name already stored in the remote.  If the name matches, the remote assumes it's the same engine it already has in memory.  If the names don't match, the remote sends a command to change the engine ID to the lowest available ID number in the remote and adds the name and softkeys to that new ID.  If there are several engines on the track it can take quite a bit of time to interrogate each engine and compare the names.  It's also possible to get things pretty confused if there are two engines on powered track with the same ID.  This is often how "ghost" engines get created where there is no entry in the engine list, and the ID is not available to edit an engine.  If there's a ghost entry at the same ID number of the engine you are trying to add you will consistently get the "engine in remote" error message.  A remote reset will eliminate any ghosts.

The best thing to do is back up the remote's data file to a PC once you have all the engines entered and working.  That way you will always have a copy that you can reload if the remote ever gets a ghost.

Hope that helps.

I think I'll save that response Dave.  That's an excellent description of the issues.  I typically fix them with my global reset, but this usually happens to me on my test bench.  Any engines I have in the remote are probably already in boxes on their way back to the customer.

Next we want to hear how multiple TIU's muddle the waters, that's when things get really interesting!

Hi John,

The process with multiple TIUs is the same as I described above, but is repeated for each TIU.  The remote starts with the highest numbered TIU and works down to the lowest TIU.  This gets REALLY frustrating if you have a large layout with multiple TIUs and always load your engines on TIU 1 with the other TIUs powered down.  The remote will spend several minutes trying to talk to TIUs that aren't there before it finally starts the process with TIU 1.  The best way to avoid these software foibles is to always use a tether (4P4C telephone handset cord) when loading an engine.  Using the tether turns off the 900MHz radio and forces the remote to talk to only one TIU, regardless of the TIU's ID number.

If you've ever tried to load an engine and the remote seems to hang up on "looking for MTH engine," it's often because you have multiple TIUs in the remote.  In an extreme case (5 TIUs, but only TIU 1 is powered) it can take over 20 minutes for the remote to give up trying to talk to TIUs 5 through 2 before it finally communicates with TIU 1.  Most people would have long since pulled a battery to force the remote to stop, but if you let it go it would eventually work.

Dave, you must be reading my mind!  More than once I have pulled the battery when I got tired of waiting at the club.   I use a cord on my test bench for that reason, otherwise if I forget to turn off the layout TIU, funny things happen!

Interesting conversation going on here. Sure explains the wait with the remote and the possible error messages one may get when trying to add MTH engines. I am going to try the tether method the next time. I have two TIU's on my layout with number two having fixed 2 on a siding (it's own block) and when necessary cleared for adding engines. Does it matter which TIU you plug into?

The TIU you plug into has to see the engine you're addressing I believe.

Gentlemen:  Thanks so much for these insights!  Today I have the time to try out your suggestions.  After resetting the remote and TIU I had been adding all the engines that been working ok all along and then doing the problem engines last.  My TIU 1’s four outputs each go through toggle switches to a large track loop divided into four quadrants.  When adding engines, i was simply  turning on the toggle for the track a particular  engine was setting on and adding it!  I will now tether TIU 1  to the remote and use  a short piece of track connected to fixed 1 to  add each of them one by one.  I will report results later today.  Phil

I actually recommend adding the problem engines first.  If they're still a problem, we can go from there.

Moments ago I both feature and factory reset TIU one and reset the remote.  "info"   showed no active DCS engines.  Using a tether to TIU 1 and a short test track as the only output coming  from fixed 1, I successfully added one off my problem engines, a PS2 P-5.  However, my PS3 New Haven rectifier failed to add and the remote displayed "engine in remote:"  I do know that this engines works ok on my bench in conventional mode and I make sure that  all TIU's in the train room are turned off.  Also even on the add track I am using, this engine starts making sounds even while I am unsuccessfully trying too to get it to add to the remote.  Any Thoughts?  

milwrd posted:

Does it matter which TIU you plug into?

Nope.  Once the remote knows it's tethered you'll see (T) displayed on the remote's screen, the radio will be shut off, and the remote will only try to talk to the connected TIU.

Try changing the address of the engine in the remote, then try to add the problem engine again.

John:  The P-5 was added as engine 5.  I changed the address to 3.  I put the New Haven PS3 on the track but still got the same error message.  For what it is worth what has been unusual with this engine all along is its sounds always  coming on within  10 to 20 seconds of powering up the track.  Here is something else I learned.  When I momentarily cut and restore power to my now sound emitting New Haven, it starts moving just like if I was running it in conventional mode.   I know it works like it should in conventional but maybe has gotten stuck there!!    Phil

With one problem engine and others working normally, I start suspecting the locomotive.

Hi Phil,

Check the PS3's DCS/DCC switch.  The engine is coming up in conventional mode.  If the switch is set to DCS, go ahead and flip it to DCC and try again.  I've seen a couple switches that were wired backwards.

Problem solved!!!!!!!   The switch was set to DCC.  This may have happened recently as I was handling the engine but I wonder too if it could have been that way for awhile and this did not otherwise affect the engines features.  This engine is one of my favorites since my second Lionel engine  was their postwar  New Haven rectifier that I practically ran the wheels off of!!!!!

Thanks to all of you.  And as is true with many other topics, I learned much more about other DCS issues.  I hope others did too!!  This is a great forum and fantastic learning tool.  Phil

Nothing like staying up late , sleepy and dizzy trying to figure out why your favorite locomotive piece finally decided to quit working.................

............and you see the DCS / DCC SWITCH is in the WRONG position !!!  😶             Thanks for helping me not feel alone in my frustrating railway endeavors. 

This is a great forum Phil 😁

Dave Hikel posted:

milwrd posted:

Does it matter which TIU you plug into?

Nope.  Once the remote knows it's tethered you'll see (T) displayed on the remote's screen, the radio will be shut off, and the remote will only try to talk to the connected TIU.

If he has two TIU's he doesn't he have to plug into the one powering the locomotive? 

milwrd posted:

Interesting conversation going on here. Sure explains the wait with the remote and the possible error messages one may get when trying to add MTH engines. I am going to try the tether method the next time. I have two TIU's on my layout with number two having fixed 2 on a siding (it's own block) and when necessary cleared for adding engines. Does it matter which TIU you plug into?

phil klopp posted:

Problem solved!!!!!!!   The switch was set to DCC.  This may have happened recently as I was handling the engine but I wonder too if it could have been that way for awhile and this did not otherwise affect the engines features. 

Having the engine in DCC mode totally disables DCS, so it must have happened after the last time it ran properly.

BobbyD posted:

Dave Hikel posted:

milwrd posted:

Does it matter which TIU you plug into?

Nope.  Once the remote knows it's tethered you'll see (T) displayed on the remote's screen, the radio will be shut off, and the remote will only try to talk to the connected TIU.

If he has two TIU's he doesn't he have to plug into the one powering the locomotive? 

phil klopp posted:

Problem solved!!!!!!!   The switch was set to DCC.  This may have happened recently as I was handling the engine but I wonder too if it could have been that way for awhile and this did not otherwise affect the engines features.  This engine is one of my favorites since my second Lionel engine  was their postwar  New Haven rectifier that I practically ran the wheels off of!!!!!

Thanks to all of you.  And as is true with many other topics, I learned much more about other DCS issues.  I hope others did too!!  This is a great forum and fantastic learning tool.  Phil

Glad to hear it Phil!

Dave Hikel posted:

Hi John,

The process with multiple TIUs is the same as I described above, but is repeated for each TIU.  The remote starts with the highest numbered TIU and works down to the lowest TIU.  This gets REALLY frustrating if you have a large layout with multiple TIUs and always load your engines on TIU 1 with the other TIUs powered down.  The remote will spend several minutes trying to talk to TIUs that aren't there before it finally starts the process with TIU 1.  The best way to avoid these software foibles is to always use a tether (4P4C telephone handset cord) when loading an engine.  Using the tether turns off the 900MHz radio and forces the remote to talk to only one TIU, regardless of the TIU's ID number.

If you've ever tried to load an engine and the remote seems to hang up on "looking for MTH engine," it's often because you have multiple TIUs in the remote.  In an extreme case (5 TIUs, but only TIU 1 is powered) it can take over 20 minutes for the remote to give up trying to talk to TIUs 5 through 2 before it finally communicates with TIU 1.  Most people would have long since pulled a battery to force the remote to stop, but if you let it go it would eventually work.

Dave, So why don't they change the code so that it works like the app does? The app seems so much faster at this. Does the app know that a given TIU is not powered? or how else does it work so fast?

 It seems like it has already interrogated the engines when you press the add engine. You get an engine address in a faded screen while it gets the rest of the engine's info.

 The app seems to also quit much faster when there's an issue where the remote lags on and on.....

Engineer-Joe posted:

Dave, So why don't they change the code so that it works like the app does? The app seems so much faster at this. Does the app know that a given TIU is not powered? or how else does it work so fast?

 It seems like it has already interrogated the engines when you press the add engine. You get an engine address in a faded screen while it gets the rest of the engine's info.

 The app seems to also quit much faster when there's an issue where the remote lags on and on.....

Hi Joe,

In short, they can't make the remote do what the app dose.  This is one of the biggest differences between the 900MHz radio and WiFi /Ethernet.  The app actually makes a network connection with the WIU.  If the WIU is powered down, that connection can't exist, so the app knows that TIU isn't there and never tries to communicate.  If the WIU is powered, but the TIU is not, the WIU reports this to the app.  If the WIU and TIU are powered, but not track power is going out, the TIU still replies to the global interrogation command rather quickly.  It just reports it has no engines.  If multiple TIU/WIU's are powered it still takes noticeably longer for an engine to load than with a single TIU.  However, since the network connections are well defined and network connections have robust error correction, the app knows VERY quickly if the TIU responded or not.  This allows for a MUCH shorter timeout.

Much of the improvement in load time also comes from the improved communication speed.  Even when everything is set up right and working properly, the app is more than an order of magnitude faster at the same job.  The bottleneck for the app is the serial data link between the WIU and TIU, which operates at 57.6K BAUD.  The DCS remote's 900MHz radio link and tethered serial connections have an effective 4.8K BAUD rate.  The app can literally process the engine ID and softkey data of 12 engines in the time it takes the remote to process one.  This is the main reason that all operations from the app seam snappier than from the remote.  They are!

Thanks Dave! I knew you were the right one to ask!