How to get a Williams horn on Lionel controller?

The KW has a two-stage whistle control as do most PW transformers.  The first movement of the control puts a significant DC offset on the rails.  As you move the handle a little farther, the DC offset is reduced and additional voltage is placed across the rails to compensate for the whistle tenders of old that drew a lot of current.  If you move the whistle control just a little, I suspect that's when the whistle actually blows.  The fix is the diode replacement for the rectifier in the KW.

You can also use a home-rolled whistle/bell control, here's one I made years ago.  One button is for whistle, one is for the bell.

The diode replacement for the rectifier in the KW sounds like a good idea but will that cause problems with the 50yr old engines and whistle tenders?

I like your whistle/bell control but that is above my pay grade!

I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to the engine (vs the controller)? 

No issues with adding an appropriately sized diode to a classic transformer, even with classic equipment. I like to use the 1N1190AR diodes.

Also, the capacitors and whatnot on the sound board may have aged out of spec and have an adverse effect.

For sure go with the diode. I've done it on a couple of 1033s with great results.

@PRRick posted:

For sure go with the diode. I've done it on a couple of 1033s with great results.

I just remembered that I replaced the diode this time last year.  I can't remember exactly what doide I used, but I'm pretty sure its the 1N1190AR.  And the engine worked after that when i found the 'sweet spot'. 

My suspicions keep pointing to the engine... Is there a way to test?

@jjwithers posted:

My suspicions keep pointing to the engine... Is there a way to test?

Use of a different activator. Either use a different transformer or a Lionel 6-5906 Sound Activation Button, the later would be my preferred method.

I built one of GunrunnerJohns diode controller and it works fine for whistle and bell. It’s mostly just serial soldering of the diodes. His diagram has been posted before (that’s where I got my design). You could search for it or he may repost it.
Alan

I just ordered a $15 (with shipping) Lionel Sound Activation Button. I'll start there... but I still suspect it's the engine. 

@jjwithers posted:

My suspicions keep pointing to the engine... Is there a way to test?

You can try activating the horn with a D cell battery.

Thanks for all your help gang.

I got the 6-5906 button and tried it with a second Williams engine. It tried to cough out a horn but that was it. I have zero signs of a horn with the button after that initial sputter.  Same goes for Williams engine #1.  The horn lever on the KW controller still works, but faintly on my two Williams engines.

I have an old Lionel Alco Santa Fe Diesel and the horn works great on that setup.

I switched to the B side of the KW controller and the horn is slightly louder on the Williams engines using the KW. I get nothing with the button. 

Perhaps the button is a dud? 

The D battery test works, but the horn is still faint on the A channel. 

@jjwithers posted:

The D battery test works, but the horn is still faint on the A channel.

The D battery test is completely independent of the transformer, and would indicated a problem with the horn. There should be no difference between A & B on a KW, they are electrically identical... they both use the same whistle rectifier and shunt resistor as well when using the built-in controller.

I have had to fiddle withe the volume pots on my two Williams boards a bit, I think they get oxidized.  Some contact cleaner and a few turns of the pot seemed to help.  Also make sure you have clean track.

When I was running conventional these were my experiences ...

I needed to use my Atlas 80 watt transformer (which is the same as the Williams model) to operate the Williams engines. They did not do the horn with my CW80 ...

Running my Lionel Railsounds engine the talking would not work with the Atlas tranformer, needed to use the CW80.