Where can I look to see if a Lionel number is Std O or traditional O? Looking particularly at TMCC diesel engines. I bought a BNSF Dash 9 but it is Std and I would like to find a Traditional O version of it (cab #739)
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When I moved from HO to O 3R 20 years ago.....I asked the same. MTH made it fairly clear back then, blurred now, but I never found a way by stock number for Lionel. I'll wait and see if someone does.
I've found that 6-17XXX are Standard O, These are rolling stock numbers. However, I am sure there are other numbers that have been used for scale size. I don't know anything about locomotive numbers.
Irrespective of numbering systems that the various train companies utilize, Lionel has NOT made a traditionally sized (selectively compressed) Dash-8 or any similar modern locomotive. In the traditionally sized format from Lionel, the GP-38 and the U36B are as modern as you will find from Lionel.
Going to numbering systems, MTH may have one of the clearest. The 30- suffix is for their Railking line. But even that isn't a guarantee (as AMCDave indicated) of traditional size, since MTH has moved many of the former Premiere line locos that are older with less detail (20- suffix) into the Railking line, calling them either Imperial or Railking Scale.
MTH is the only company that has made modern types of locomotives in a traditional size format. Those would be the much older original Railking locos like the Dash-8, SD-45 and the SD90-MAC.
MTH later placed these models under the Rugged Rails line (33-suffix). They haven't done much with that line in recent years and it isn't even listed under "product lines" on their website. But if you reference the 33- suffix or check older catalogs for Railking product numbers, those locomotives do occasionally show up for sale on the secondary market.
brianel_k-lineguy posted:Irrespective of numbering systems that the various train companies utilize, Lionel has NOT made a traditionally sized (selectively compressed) Dash-8 or any similar modern locomotive. In the traditionally sized format from Lionel, the GP-38 and the U36B are as modern as you will find from Lionel.
Going to numbering systems, MTH may have one of the clearest. The 30- suffix is for their Railking line. But even that isn't a guarantee (as AMCDave indicated) of traditional size, since MTH has moved many of the former Premiere line locos that are older with less detail (20- suffix) into the Railking line, calling them either Imperial or Railking Scale.
MTH is the only company that has made modern types of locomotives in a traditional size format. Those would be the much older original Railking locos like the Dash-8, SD-45 and the SD90-MAC.
MTH later placed these models under the Rugged Rails line (33-suffix). They haven't done much with that line in recent years and it isn't even listed under "product lines" on their website. But if you reference the 33- suffix or check older catalogs for Railking product numbers, those locomotives do occasionally show up for sale on the secondary market.
It sounds like you're pretty well-versed on MTH numbering systems . I too have not understood it while looking at some of the tinplate building re-issues. Most were made in both O gauge and standard gauge . But when I go to view one with interest to perhaps buy I don't know if it's the O gauge version or the standard gauge version . And often times the people selling them don't know which it is considered either. Is there a numbering system to tell the difference ? Does the prefix number differentiate between the two ?
Thanks for the compliment Matt, but what I know about the MTH numbering system is common knowledge and can be checked on their website. Their standard gauge items use an 11- suffix.
As far as tinplate O gauge products, that's not my area of interest. Though for fun, I just used the product search function on the MTH home page and typed in "O gauge tinplate" and found the standard gauge and the far fewer O gauge items are all listed together.
For example, there's a 767W O Gauge Freight Train Set w/Proto-Sound 2.0 that has a product number 20-1006-1. The 20- suffix is typically the Premiere line trains and according to the MTH website, this was cataloged in the Premiere line. The end suffix is an indicator of additional electronic features. I know a -0 at the end means it is a horn only or whistle only conventional item.
So I'd suggest going to the MTH website and do some exploring. And then if you have any questions, post them in the tinplate forum here where you are more likely to get knowledgeable replies. Remember to make your question or post title clear, so you get the information you are looking for.
It'd be better to have an idea what you are looking at before you see an item for sale. It's possible by the time you get the info, the item could be sold.
Okay thanks. I have had trouble on the MTH site , but I'm sure it's me . I'm not the best with this stuff .
Matt, one more idea is simply try Google. I typed in MTH O gauge trains under images and got lots of stuff. In the top row of what opened for me, I clicked one image, then clicked on "visit page" and it led me here....
http://www.ericstrains.com/tinplate/
Scroll down to the O gauge tinplate photos and you'll see 5 images: Two with 10- suffix numbers, and the others with 11- suffix numbers. So obviously you going to have to do some exploring to figure out what you are looking for. BUT, not impossible either.
Even though they were just images under the Google search I did, a bunch of them showed product numbers when I clicked on the image. So there's one potential avenue for you.
Just think, before the internet, you'd had to have every catalog or make phone calls and write letters... and then wait for the reply.
Old Fart posted:Where can I look to see if a Lionel number is Std O or traditional O? Looking particularly at TMCC diesel engines. I bought a BNSF Dash 9 but it is Std and I would like to find a Traditional O version of it (cab #739)
if in traditional you mean smaller them the lionchief + is what you want.
for me it is easier to just refer to lionel as scale or non-scale
Not entirely true BigDodge. If TMCC in a traditional size format is the want, Lionel has made locos like the traditional GP 7/9 and others with TMCC, but not necessarily in BNSF.
If he doesn't mind a specific type of engine, Lionel has recently made some BNSF traditionally sized engines like the GP38 (conventional, from the 2014 set) and the GP20 in LionChief Plus.
BUT if he really wants a modern diesel like a Dash-9 in a traditional size, MTH is the ONLY company that has ever made it that way. And now, even those specific Railking / Rugged Rails engines will have to be sought on the secondary market, unless some dealer still happens to have a new one in old stock.
I personally tend to think of Lionel as Lionel, and then scale Lionel.
For the majority of their history, Lionel was just Lionel: Toy trains. Some were close to scale proportion but still with liberties taken to allow tight radius operation. Even the forays into scale, like the Standard 0 line started during the mid-1970's, fail to live up to the expectations of many scale 3-railers today.
It's really only been since Lionel's move to China, where they could devote the financial investment to new engineering and tooling for such small production runs, where the selection of the scale products has grown so much compared to 15 years ago.
The blessing of the 3-rail hobby today, is there is so much now available. The disadvantage is the 3-rail market has become much more fragmented, and thus it is more confusing to the average hobbyist to figure out what is what.
