Hi all, looking to pickup a Hudson NYC steamer. In da' bay, I like the Williams models, 40298(773), CS100W(5205) and CS101W(5207). Based on previous posts, I'm staying away from the Williams brass engines. Thoughts ?
TiA,
MR_P
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The die cast ones are good runners. JohnA
I have several Williams brass steam locomotives and the only concern is that some run better than others. I got my brass Hudson for $50 at a swap meet, but it needs restoration. Mainly a reversing board and some touch up paint. My K4, Light Mikado, UP Challenger, Southern Crescent Pacific, Daylight, and Niagara are all decent runners. My CNJ Camelback has an issue where the rear wheel on the tender like to pop loose when running. The Light Mikado has a dead board, but runs great with any of the other tenders I have.
All I'm saying is if the price is right, I wouldn't avoid it, but the reproduction of the 773 is probably a safer choice and a better runner than the Lionel originals. 1964 773 on the left and the Williams brass on the left. I do like the scale tender that comes with the Williams brass version and my Niagra PT tender will run with the locomotive as well.
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I don't have any of the Diecast scale Hudsons but believe Williams did one with a 700T scale tender. The 773 and remaining one (??) had the smaller 2426 tender.
Also Williams did three different scale unstreamlined brass Hudsons. One J1, and one J3 with minimal detail and one Masterpiece J3a with full on detail. The latter runs well, but has primative sounds.
Pete
If you’re running conventional, and looking for lower cost options, sometimes MTH Premier PS1 Hudsons show up on the bay for decent prices, ....far superior to the Williams with 10X the details, ...and a full scale tender.
Pat
Thanks for the info folks. I'm looking for low cost Hudson for a project, but would like a scale or near-scale version. That's why I listed the 3 Williams choices.
Cheers, MR_P
@John A posted:The die cast ones are good runners. JohnA
Actually, the die-cast are very poor runners. Unless you never want to go below 75 smph. I did put an ERR Cruise Commander in mine (I had detailed and weathered it, so I was going to keep it anyway) to make it usable. Runs well and pretty slowly when you want, but it's no switcher.
- Per the brass: the very early Williams Hudsons (80's) are problematic often; they can be OK, but they are delicate and not geared too well (probably better that the die-cast version!). Good boiler detailing, though.
- the Samhongsa Williams brass is great, but they offered no NYC Hudson then.
- the Wms Late Brass "Masterpiece Series" Hudsons are very nice; built by the same builder of the Lionel "Smithsonian" Dreyfuss, I do think. In fact, the Wms version of that loco is almost as detailed as the Smithsonian. These Wms Masterpiece Hudsons are among the most beautiful 3RO steamers built.
@D500 posted:Actually, the die-cast are very poor runners. Unless you never want to go below 75 smph. I did put an ERR Cruise Commander in mine (I had detailed and weathered it, so I was going to keep it anyway) to make it usable. Runs well and pretty slowly when you want, but it's no switcher.
- Per the brass: the very early Williams Hudsons (80's) are problematic often; they can be OK, but they are delicate and not geared too well (probably better that the die-cast version!). Good boiler detailing, though.
- the Samhongsa Williams brass is great, but they offered no NYC Hudson then.
- the Wms Late Brass "Masterpiece Series" Hudsons are very nice; built by the same builder of the Lionel "Smithsonian" Dreyfuss, I do think. In fact, the Wms version of that loco is almost as detailed as the Smithsonian. These Wms Masterpiece Hudsons are among the most beautiful 3RO steamers built.
I have to disagree regarding the die cast Hudsons being poor runners unless you don't want to go under 75 mph. I have the Williams 5205 Hudson and although like most Williams engines it is a bit peppy coming out of the starting gate it runs well under 75 scale mph. Mine actually runs quite slowly and I find its pace acceptable and I have not modified it with ERR. After all it is a Hudson; not a switcher. Also, it can pull a ton of freight or passenger cars.
@OKHIKER posted:I have to disagree regarding the die cast Hudsons being poor runners unless you don't want to go under 75 mph. I have the Williams 5205 Hudson and although like most Williams engines it is a bit peppy coming out of the starting gate it runs well under 75 scale mph. Mine actually runs quite slowly and I find its pace acceptable and I have not modified it with ERR. After all it is a Hudson; not a switcher. Also, it can pull a ton of freight or passenger cars.
The only way you can tame them is to put a bazillion cars behind them,....they act like roller coasters at anything below warp speed,.....unless you’re dragging everything you own behind them,.....these things are geared all wrong, and anything below 30SMPH with a small consist is a joke, ....
Pat
Thanks all for the replies. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Hudson history enough, but I've been reading as much as possible. Can anyone give me a comparison between the 773 and 5205/5207 locos ? I like both and they're in the sub 300$ price range at the moment.
@MR_P posted:Thanks all for the replies. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Hudson history enough, but I've been reading as much as possible. Can anyone give me a comparison between the 773 and 5205/5207 locos ? I like both and they're in the sub 300$ price range at the moment.
Which 773 are you inquiring about?...the Lionel model or the Williams?...I believe Williams numbered one of their Hudson’s with 773 cab numbers and had something like “Luxury Lines” on the tender ( 2426 type tender I believe ) ....
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Which 773 are you inquiring about?...the Lionel model or the Williams?...I believe Williams numbered one of their Hudson’s with 773 cab numbers and had something like “Luxury Lines” on the tender ( 2426 type tender I believe ) ....
Pat
Hi Pat, The Williams version 773 model 40298 actually WBB vs the Williams pre-bachmann (5205/5207 cab) models CS100W and CS101W. All 3 have NYC spelled out on the tender.
While I agree the MTH Hudson is quite well detailed and appears to be mostly accurate, be aware that the cylinders are seriously undersize, with piston rods outboard of the cylinder centerline, and the drivers are insulated in a strange fashion. Also the boiler has a huge slot in its belly.
I have not seen the Williams die cast, but it sure looks like a repro of the Lionel 763 with a 700 tender. If I get one, I will look for a 700 piping kit.
At the $200 point, either would be a good buy! Opinion. Ditto the Lionel 6-18006.
I believe all of the Williams die cast Hudsons have the same engine. They may have different tender. Lettering varies some. There was a time when you could find MTH proto Hudsons for under 300 bucks. Not so much now. MTH would give you much more detail, a scale tender, and big Pittman motor that would handle prototypical length passenger trains.
Pete
Thanks to all who have replied. My "project" is to take a working PS 3 RK steam and do a heart transplant into the Williams. The RK is a low-end unit, but hey, it's PS 3.0,Evil laugh here... Muhuhuhuhuh 
