"Human Desire", the Movie

Yep, know what ya mean.  See it all the time, even in old Lionel films!!   The rest of the world seems to have the outlook of "one train is just like any other"  and "How can anyone tell the difference... it's a train....."

Jesse    TCA

This is why I'm really excited to see the upcoming movie "Midway".  I know a guy who was an extra, and he says they really went out of their way to get the planes, ships, uniforms etc. correct.  Now if they can just get the script right...

Jon

I also caught the end of the movie the other night. I think the western station is Albuquerque.

Pete

I've seen the flick a number of times. The train shots are indeed a hodgepodge of stock footage. 

Doesn't matter. 

They had me at Gloria Grahame.

KOOLjock1 posted:

This is why I'm really excited to see the upcoming movie "Midway".  I know a guy who was an extra, and he says they really went out of their way to get the planes, ships, uniforms etc. correct.  Now if they can just get the script right...

Jon

Hope they did a better job than the producers of "Pearl Harbor" (2001).

They used CGI to recreate the U.S. battleships and the Japanese attack force, but mixed in footage of modern guided missile cruisers and destroyers.  Lame.

Tora! Tora! Tora!  was a much better film about Pearl Harbor.

The reason these things happen most of the time is cost.  Although the Pearl Harbor vs Tora Tora Tora! comparison is fair as Pearl Harbor was garbage movie.

My brother just recently consulted as a historian on a major movie and one thing I learned from him was that even when the writers, directors, and producers want a truly authentic piece, compromises must be made.  In the most critical areas in the film they tried to be 100% a pure as possible while in others there are liberties both in the sets and general story.

Norton/Pete...   I take it the Jack Delano pic was most likely taken in the 40s, during war time.  Notice the "cowling"  over the lead unit headlight.  Only need for these would be to reduce upward glare and long distance overhead detection.

Jesse   TCA

texastrain posted:

Norton/Pete...   I take it the Jack Delano pic was most likely taken in the 40s, during war time.  Notice the "cowling"  over the lead unit headlight.  Only need for these would be to reduce upward glare and long distance overhead detection.

Jesse   TCA

Yes, The date is the early '40s. Jack worked initially for the Farm Security Administration (FSA) which later morphed into the Office of War Information (OWI). The FSA charged a group of photographers to go out during the depression and document the misery it was producing in the country to convince Congress to act. As the war began they were sent out to document the war effort at home. 

To see their work go to the Library of Congress site and search on FSA/OWI. The majority of railroad images were taken by Jack Delano and have made it on sites like Shorpy.

Warning, you can spend days pouring over the photographs at the Library of Congress.

Pete

FWIW, details on the movie Human Desire says it was shot in the vicinity of El Reno, OK, using the facilities of the RI.  "Some" stock background shots show east coast scenes including the Pulaski Subway and the Trenton Bridge.

As a pilot I always look for inaccuracies in aviation scenes.  My favorite was in the Six Million Dollar Man where he he took off in one type of plane, flew at altitude in another type, and landed in a third type.  What made it fun was the types were not even close to being similar.  

This happens in the original "Midway" movie wherein Charlton Heston climbs into a SBD, rolls off the deck in a TBF, flies in a F4U (no mistaking that one!) and crashing onto the deck in a Jet!  In 1942!  

Jon  

Just curious: Is that Jack Delano photo in the public domain or do you need permission to use it?

Tinplate Art posted:

Just curious: Is that Jack Delano photo in the public domain or do you need permission to use it?

 The photo was taken by Jack as part of his work for the Farm Security Administration and Office of War Information in 1943.    OWI transferred it to Library of Congress in 1944 with no restirctions on publishing.    They wanted it out there.

One of the most accurate railroad movies I've seen is "Broadway Limited", at least as far as the depiction of the Pennsylvania Railroad goes. 

Ironically, in the IMDB, somebody who wasn't familiar with the Harrisburg engine change thought it was a continuity error when a steam engine pulls the train into the station, and a GG1 pulls it out.

Usually when watching a movie if it is good enough I don't really notice the anachronisms and weird mysterious changes in the middle of scenes, etc..but if the movie is crappy I'll often look for things for the fun of it. The original Midway had some visual screw ups and there were problems with historical accuracy with some of the way it was plotted, but it was a fun movie, I love the all star movies like that, they just don't make them like that any more (what was it Gloria Swanson said in Sunset Boulevard, the movies got smaller since she left? *lol*). I saw a trailer for the new one, I just hope it is better than the trailer looked, the CGI was distracting, looked like a phone app video game. 

Back to the original topic, they always seemed to have problems getting it right with them. There was one movie (I am trying to recall the title now) where the main character is sitting in a train at the station, the camera turns away, and the train is already at full speed when it pans back. I saw another movie where the main character (who apparently must either have been an extreme foamer or a railroad guy) manages to hop aboard an engine and tender (that appears to be dead cold), fire it up and get it moving before those chasing him can get there... I suspect a lot of it is cost, either they are using stock footage, or simply, with the case of the guy in the train station, when they edit the movie miss the obvious gaps/blunders. Even these days where they can use CGI to redo some things relatively easily, a lot is missed. 

A bit of a diversion here but, CGI could be the downfall of the film industry.  What I mean is that why have humans when you can simply fake it.

KOOLjock1 posted:

This happens in the original "Midway" movie wherein Charlton Heston climbs into a SBD, rolls off the deck in a TBF, flies in a F4U (no mistaking that one!) and crashing onto the deck in a Jet!  In 1942!  

Jon  

Much of the Japanese attack footage in "Midway" (1976) was from "Tora, Tora, Tora!" (1970). One glaring mistake is a shot of Japanese planes, supposedly making an attack on a U.S. ship at sea with a number of cranes in the background. I own both movies and the cranes were from the original Pearl Harbor attack shots from "Tora, Tora, Tora!"  One of my favorite goofs was from either "Dillinger" or "Melvin Purvis, G-Man" where the camera shot switches from tight to wide on a supposed "Chicago Street" only  to show the San Gabriel Mountains looming in the background. All that's missing is the Hollywood sign. 

Howard the Duck takes place in a Cleveland with palm trees!

Jon

Human Desire is on Movies! TV today at 11:50 AM EST.

As a movie, enjoyed it - it was on TCM as part of Gloria Grahame's day on Summer Under the Stars, late last night or this morning. But as others have noted, the stock footage and the backgrounds in the process shots are from all over.

A fair amount on the PRR - as the OP noted, the Trenton bridge in the background. They also pass K Tower in Washington, in a view from the cab. Later there's a passenger train with what looks to be a PRR striped loco (hard to tell - it's printed really dark), with a blunt-end observation car.

Agreed that it's Albuquerque - they use two or three times the same footage of a train arriving - but only after the locomotives have passed.

There's a B&O train crossing the Potomac at Harpers Ferry.

A shot early on, from the cab - the train is approaching an overpass that carries a road above the tracks. The film appears to printed flopped - I think the bridge says 1910. After the bridge, there's what looks to be a small station on the left (or right, in reality). It's a four-track main - no electrification.

David

Watched the TCM version yesterday after having seen the movie before and they botched the end by cutting it.  The version shown went right to "The End" after yardmaster Carl Buckley strangled his wife Vicki in a Pullman compartment because she was trying to leave him.  In the full version, the killer yardmaster is being chased through a train yard and in his panic steps out right in front of a mainline movement with the inevitable result.  TCM's hacked version leaves the viewer wondering if justice was ever served or if the bad guy simply took off for parts unknown.

I started to watch that, Bill, but I was glad I didn’t. As a former film archivist, chopping up films like that is atrocious. TCM should know better. By the way, I thought you and Tom were coming up the road to see my G gauge layout last weekend!

Former Member posted:

…In the last scene Glen Ford is at the controls of an Alco FA locomotive…Then we have a view out of the front window.  No overhead wires and fairly open landscape…There are other mishaps earlier in the film such as Ford climbing into an Alco and getting out of a GM diesel…

Come on…

Do you really think the general public (the people who bought the tickets to pay for this film) knows the difference between an Alco and an EMD? Or whether a specific piece of railroad has overhead wires or not?

And on top of that, a general audience doesn’t care. They just want to be entertained.

@Bill Chaplik posted:

Watched the TCM version yesterday after having seen the movie before and they botched the end by cutting it.  The version shown went right to "The End" after yardmaster Carl Buckley strangled his wife Vicki in a Pullman compartment because she was trying to leave him.  In the full version, the killer yardmaster is being chased through a train yard and in his panic steps out right in front of a mainline movement with the inevitable result.  TCM's hacked version leaves the viewer wondering if justice was ever served or if the bad guy simply took off for parts unknown.

Hah!  I thought I dreamed that sequence!  I guess I'm not going crazy after all!

Jon

@Rich Melvin posted:

Come on…

Do you really think the general public (the people who bought the tickets to pay for this film) knows the difference between an Alco and an EMD? Or whether a specific piece of railroad has overhead wires or not?

And on top of that, a general audience doesn’t care. They just want to be entertained.

Really.  How many remember the Happy Days gang going from Milwaukee to California via the Pennsylvania behind a GG1...

Rusty

@Bill Chaplik posted:

Watched the TCM version yesterday after having seen the movie before and they botched the end by cutting it.  The version shown went right to "The End" after yardmaster Carl Buckley strangled his wife Vicki in a Pullman compartment because she was trying to leave him.  In the full version, the killer yardmaster is being chased through a train yard and in his panic steps out right in front of a mainline movement with the inevitable result.  TCM's hacked version leaves the viewer wondering if justice was ever served or if the bad guy simply took off for parts unknown.

I am finding no references to an alternate ending (though I will admit to not having spent hours and hours looking). A review in the New York Times at the time of the movie's release would seem to match the ending that was on TCM. The AFI synopsis is what was shown on TCM the other night:

https://catalog.afi.com/Catalog/moviedetails/51233

The 1938 version by Jean Renoir, "La Bête Humaine," sounds like it has an ending closer to the one you describe.

David

FYI, the movie will be on Noir Alley on TCM late Saturday 9/18 (around midnight ET), and then again on Sunday morning. Dana Delany will also be on to discuss the movie with host Eddie Muller.

David

I've never seen Human Desire, but I understand it is loosely based on La Bete Humaine, which was made into a French movie that has fantastic scenes of French engine driving and railroad operations. You don't need to know French to enjoy the fabulous railroad footage in that film.

LOL.  Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Rosemary Clooney, and Vera Ellen took the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific from Florida to Vermont.  Must have been the Looong Way.  Then again as Rich said who would notice but us idiots.

In the old CSI: Crime Scene Investigation tv show, there's a scene where William Petersen's character is chasing a bad guy into a rail yard. An end cab switcher rolls by at about 10 MPH with one decrepit old coach behind it, and the bad guy jumps into the coach. I figure that wasn't a great place to hide, inside an empty car apparently being towed to a scrapyard. Petersen follows him - and it turns out the car is completely full of people! Apparently this was supposed to be a working Amtrak (or commuter?) train.  

In the movie "Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman" our hero is driving a 1957 Plymouth two door station wagon. She picks it up and, when in her hands, it is a 1954 Chevrolet four door station wagon. When she throws it to the ground, it becomes a smashed 1957 Plymouth two door station wagon again.

In the movie "Killers Three" starring Dick Clark, the villain's car keeps switching back and forth between a 1939 Chevrolet and a 1940 Chevrolet. It also switches back and forth between a two door sedan and a four door sedan.

But who notices these things?

Where is Dan Thorn (Danger Lights) when you need him?

"You can't put the Olympian in the hole!"

It's too bad that there was a "railfan edit" DVD of Danger Lights that came out a while back that just showed the scenes with Milwaukee Road trains in them. From comments I've heard, I suspect a lot of people didn't realize they weren't seeing the entire movie and were complaining that the storyline was hard to follow. If you see the whole movie, it's actually pretty good - and was I think the first sound movie filmed 'on location'.

I will be uploading the full version of "Danger Lights" to my YouTube channel later today. The MAC is crunching the numbers on the video right now. I'll post here when it's ready for viewing.

You will love Dan Thorn. "You office guys! Hold up the Olympian? Tell 'er to come through! I'll clear the track!"

Hey Rich,

Glad to see that you are a Dan Thorn fan.  This classic movie is one that every rail enthusiast should watch; very entertaining.   My ten year old grandson borrowed my copy many years ago and watched it to many times he could say dialog like you just did.  He didn't appreciate the love triangle, but the railroad scenes enthralled him.

That Dan Thorn is a good man, Mary.

As promised, here is "Danger Lights."

I've had this film in my library for many years. I just got around to publishing it on my YouTube channel.

It is a classic! You will love the gruff, old Superintendent, Dan Thorn.

"La Bête Humaine" will be on TCM early Monday morning, Nov. 14. In the TCM Imports segment. 2:45a ET.

David

I remember Human Desire.  Broderick Crawford is the absolute best actor to play an iron-pants, brown suit, Trainmaster of the 1950's!

Thread still active after three years - not bad!

I was reminded watching something the other day that whenever the History Channel has a program where they need a shot of a US steam train, it's almost always some central-European train. A recent episode of "The Toys That Built America" had A.C. Gilbert going from New Haven CT to New York City in the early 1910s on a train with a black European steam engine with red wheels and a couple of obviously not American (let alone New Haven) passenger cars behind.

I have seen many train shows use online clip art to decorate their advertisements. Sometimes they use obviously European prototype trains instead of American ones. It really clashes.