I.D. Help Please

Those wheels are for two rail that is why they look small. Also the trucks were all made of plastic for the longest time. Then Weaver changed to die cast trucks and couplers. The couplers in the pic appear to be like a Kadee coupler and I think the couplers pictured are metal. Did you buy this for three rail operation???. I buy two rail and convert them to three rail. MTH started manufacturing the Weaver die cast trucks, Bentendorf and roller bearing. Patricks train, a sponsor on the forum is selling them in a pack of two for 24.95 plus shipping..........Paul

"Tiny and cheap plastic wheel-sets and couplers. I thought Weaver was better quality.  Can this be??"

Weaver started in the 2RO scale world and only later tapped into the 3RO/HI-Rail customer base. That "tiny" coupler is a Kadee and far more accurate than our big O "gauge" units, and typically more reliable. The wheels are near-scale in dimensions, not the giant-flanged 3RO types; the plastic is not unusual in that world.

Weavers trucks were identical - 3 or 2 rail - and were purposed based on the wheel sets (scale-ish or Hi-rail) and couplers used (scale-ish or Hi-rail large).

I say "scale-ish" because the flanges above are still too large to be dead accurate, and the Kadee coupler is still a bit over-sized, I've been told by those who measure them.

Based on the box style, this is a fairly old car, as Weaver goes. A pair of Hi-Rail Weaver couplers and 4 Hi-Rail wheel sets popped in the trucks will fix you right up. 

A lesson to be learned for all of us when buying online: ask questions before you bid!

Bill

Live and learn!

I removed the trucks from a 'plastic fantastic' flat car I had laying around. The wheels and side frames are plastic but at least it couples.  It sits rather high - don't you think?

Ponz

paul 2 posted:

Those wheels are for two rail that is why they look small. Also the trucks were all made of plastic for the longest time. Then Weaver changed to die cast trucks and couplers. The couplers in the pic appear to be like a Kadee coupler and I think the couplers pictured are metal. Did you buy this for three rail operation???. I buy two rail and convert them to three rail. MTH started manufacturing the Weaver die cast trucks, Bentendorf and roller bearing. Patricks train, a sponsor on the forum is selling them in a pack of two for 24.95 plus shipping..........Paul

Paul - take a look at my latest post and photo.  Would the parts you described from Pat's Trains sit the car any lower?

Ponz

Ponz, what make did the plastic fantastic trucks come off of. Most trucks won't work with Weaver cars. Someone said that Atlas trucks would work with modification. The Weaver trucks sit lower then that. The die cast ones from MTH are original weaver trucks. They run 24.95 a pair at Patricks. I have changed out the wheels on the plastic trucks without taking them apart but you have to be very careful or you will break the part that holds the side frame to the bolster. When shopping on EBAY always look at all the pics. Most time the seller will say if it is two rail. I buy two rail and convert them to three rail...........Paul

Ponz, I forgot to mention that the earlier Weaver offerings were on the light side with the plastic trucks. People added weight inside the cars to make them heavier. I never did. I run a lot of them together but I do not stop and start fast on curves or else them may fall off the tracks. Also your local hobby shop if they carry MTH product may stock  them too.................Paul

paul 2 posted:

Ponz, what make did the plastic fantastic trucks come off of. Most trucks won't work with Weaver cars. Someone said that Atlas trucks would work with modification. The Weaver trucks sit lower then that. The die cast ones from MTH are original weaver trucks. They run 24.95 a pair at Patricks. I have changed out the wheels on the plastic trucks without taking them apart but you have to be very careful or you will break the part that holds the side frame to the bolster. When shopping on EBAY always look at all the pics. Most time the seller will say if it is two rail. I buy two rail and convert them to three rail...........Paul

Paul - I couldn't tell ya.  Plus I take it back - the wheels are also plastic.

If these trucks sat any lower the knuckle would hit the bottom of the ladder.  I'd sure like to see pic of the die cast weaver 3-rail trucks.

Ponz  

paul 2 posted:

Ponz, I forgot to mention that the earlier Weaver offerings were on the light side with the plastic trucks. People added weight inside the cars to make them heavier. I never did. I run a lot of them together but I do not stop and start fast on curves or else them may fall off the tracks. Also your local hobby shop if they carry MTH product may stock  them too.................Paul

Yes.  I weighed the car down with a bunch of clay.

Ponz

paul 2 posted:

Those wheels are for two rail that is why they look small. Also the trucks were all made of plastic for the longest time. Then Weaver changed to die cast trucks and couplers. The couplers in the pic appear to be like a Kadee coupler and I think the couplers pictured are metal. Did you buy this for three rail operation???. I buy two rail and convert them to three rail. MTH started manufacturing the Weaver die cast trucks, Bentendorf and roller bearing. Patricks train, a sponsor on the forum is selling them in a pack of two for 24.95 plus shipping..........Paul

Ouch!  38 bucks shipped from Pat's Trains. that'll turn this into a $55.60 car.  That's pretty hard to justify.

Ponz

Ponz, the reason the car sat so high with those trucks was the top of the  bolster. If you place that truck next to the Weaver truck you will see the Weaver bolster is flat on top. I can't right now I have to go out but when I get home I can take some pics and post them for you....Paul

rattler21 posted:

Ponz,  Off list send me the ebay listing number.  You bought a car set for two rail operation.   John

OK.  The listing says nothing about 2 or 3 rail.  Email on the way.

Ponz

Ponz, you do have to watch some of the  Weaver adds on the Bay. Most of the time they will say whether it is three rail or two rail. Like I said if I see a car on Ebay and it is two rail but the price is right I just when I get it change it over to three rail. I am posting some pics but my camera for some reason would not take clear closeups. But if you sort of make things out I have a Bentendorf, roller bearing and a roller bearing truck with the scale two rail wheels still in it. On the die cast trucks I take them apart to add the three rail wheels. On the plastic frames I will gently spread the side frame apart just enough to slide in the wheels in. On the die cast ones I take them completely apart. If you do that you have to be very careful removing the springs they can get lost very easily so what I do with the advice from hot water on the forum is I run a thread through the spring then take it out and the thread stays in till I get it back in. In a couple of the pics I have the coupler sitting on the truck. So the bottom line is you have to know if the car is three rail and if it isn't how much more money you want to invest in it. If you need to buy trucks you can find them on the Bay at different prices either plastic or die cast. The Southern wood chip hopper is Weaver with Weaver trucks and couplers mounted on it. Pics..............Paul

paul 2 posted:

Ponz, you do have to watch some of the  Weaver adds on the Bay. Most of the time they will say whether it is three rail or two rail. Like I said if I see a car on Ebay and it is two rail but the price is right I just when I get it change it over to three rail. I am posting some pics but my camera for some reason would not take clear closeups. But if you sort of make things out I have a Bentendorf, roller bearing and a roller bearing truck with the scale two rail wheels still in it. On the die cast trucks I take them apart to add the three rail wheels. On the plastic frames I will gently spread the side frame apart just enough to slide in the wheels in. On the die cast ones I take them completely apart. If you do that you have to be very careful removing the springs they can get lost very easily so what I do with the advice from hot water on the forum is I run a thread through the spring then take it out and the thread stays in till I get it back in. In a couple of the pics I have the coupler sitting on the truck. So the bottom line is you have to know if the car is three rail and if it isn't how much more money you want to invest in it. If you need to buy trucks you can find them on the Bay at different prices either plastic or die cast. The Southern wood chip hopper is Weaver with Weaver trucks and couplers mounted on it. Pics..............Paul

 

Thanks Paul - very appreciated.  I'm trying like heck to NOT turn this into a $55 car.  I did not realize it was a 2-rail car when I bought it.  I'm starting to think about taking a Dremel to the underside and removing the attached bolster!

Ponz 

Ponz, if I am reading this right I would not do anything with the Dremel to the Weaver car body. Maybe you could try this. Can you take the wheels out of the plastic fantastic trucks  and put them in the Weaver trucks if they have needle point ends on the axle.........Paul

paul 2 posted:

Ponz, if I am reading this right I would not do anything with the Dremel to the Weaver car body. Maybe you could try this. Can you take the wheels out of the plastic fantastic trucks  and put them in the Weaver trucks if they have needle point ends on the axle.........Paul

Paul - That still wouldn't be enough because the couplers do not match.

John

This is where I'm drawing the line. I realize this is an expensive hobby if done correctly.  But I'll be a monkey's uncle if I'm going to spend near 38 bucks for a pair of trucks to convert a $17.60 freight car to 3 rail!

Ponz

Weaver made parts to turn that 2-rail truck into a three rail truck. It is as simple as adding their 3-rail coupler with shank, that attaches to the truck, and adding hi-rail wheelsets. Keep an eye out for Weaver parts. I wouldn't think they would be rare, or expensive.

Don't knock the Weaver plastic truck, either. I have several cars with the 3-rail version of this truck, and they track great.

rattler21 posted:

Ponz,  Have you removed the trucks from a PRB car to see if they work?  John in Lansing, ILL

I put some cheap 3 rail truck on it and they work fine.  The car just sits too high.  However, a forum member was nice enough to sell me a pair of Weaver 3 rail trucks at a reasonable price, so I'll be putting them on next week sometime.

Ponz

Ponz, glad to hear that. Always tough decisions as to how much money to spend to make it right. .... paul

ATLAS O 3-rail trucks work fine with Weaver cars without modification. The only problem is finding the right screws to hold the trucks in place.

Andrew

Ponz posted:

I just received this Weaver PRR Hopper from eBay.  I cannot believe how cheaply made this thing is.  Tiny and cheap plastic wheel-sets and couplers. I thought Weaver was better quality.  Can this be??

Also, one note regarding your assumption about Weaver quality.

As it pertained to the company’s freight cars, Weaver was never considered the maker of high-quality cars in comparison to what three-rail hobbyists generally expect: robust models. They were accurately scaled cars, but not ones that were built particularly well with spendy components such as diecast frames and thick shells. The later introduction of Weaver’s diecast trucks was an effort to accommodate the demands of three-rail hobbyists.

If you read this forum, you might find the complaints being heaped anew on Lionel, which has been using old Weaver tooling for its LionScale line of freight cars for the past two years. Personally, I think the criticism is unfair.

What some people fail to realize is that Weaver was serving the two-rail market, which was concerned about accurately scaled models. Weaver saw an opportunity to increase its sales by using its tooling for the much larger three-rail market. I always looked at Weaver as a more affordable alternative to Lionel and MTH Premier cars and typically paid less than $30 for Weaver models I liked back in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

I have JIM R beat LOL. I agree with all that he said. I started buying Weaver cars back in the eighties. Heck I still have some still in the shrink wrap. I found Weaver to be a good alternative to the larger manufacturers because they offered more road names and a lot of time you could get 12 packs all with different road numbers. That's how I built my unit trains plus at that time hobby shops were having their own custom runs of cars made by Weaver which added even more road names to the equation. Now Lionel is making them as their Lionscale product line using the original tooling. The car bodies are light weight and you do have to handle them somewhat carefully so as not to break off stirrups and ladders but they are scale. And even though they have been out of the business for some years now you can still find some pretty good buys on EBAY and train shows without damaging your wallet......Paul