I double-Decapod Dare You!

Nice George...a big test for your bridge!

Tom

From what I remember of the PRR ore trains, as covered by a fantastic photo documentary in Trains Magazine of the mid 1950s, there were usually two decapods on the head end, and two more pushing on the rear. There was even an excellent 1957 16mm movie of an ore train with two decapods on the headend, and an A-B-B-A set of F Units pushing on the rear. Those ore operations were in the Shamoken/Mt. Caramel Pennsylvania area.

So,,,,,,,,,,,depending on the era you are modeling, you need two more decapods.

@PRR8976 posted:

Nice George...a big test for your bridge!

Tom

Thank you.

You know what?  That thought never occurred to me. 

It might be a test, but I don't think so.  That bridge could probably hold 10 locomotives that size without flexing.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to test it any time soon.  I've got the bridge's tracks covered with butcher paper again due to all the construction dirt being generated.  And to do so would mean hooking up all the track feeders for several power districts.  When the entire Staging Area is wired (both switches and track), I will back both I1s' down the mainline into Staging and cover them up to protect against dust.

George

@Hot Water posted:

From what I remember of the PRR ore trains, as covered by a fantastic photo documentary in Trains Magazine of the mid 1950s, there were usually two decapods on the head end, and two more pushing on the rear. There was even an excellent 1957 16mm movie of an ore train with two decapods on the headend, and an A-B-B-A set of F Units pushing on the rear. Those ore operations were in the Shamoken/Mt. Caramel Pennsylvania area.

So,,,,,,,,,,,depending on the era you are modeling, you need two more decapods.

That sounds awesome!!!  Two more decapods - count me in!   

My father grew up across the street from Weirton Steel on Avenue B.  There was no mill wall then to obscure the view - ore bridges and blast furnaces.  He had seen 3 large locomotives attempting to start a 100 car ore train (more than likely these were gondolas half-filled w/ iron ore, not ore jennies).  He was born in 1916 (the year the Decapod was first outshopped).  By the time he was a boy, the Decapod was the standard freight locomotive for the Pennsy (1924).  He didn't know the type of engine, but my money's on the I1s.

Thanks for the info!

George

Hey Tom, I'm guessing you have a 3rd. Rail engine? The Pennsy dark green locomotive enamel appears spot on.

@PAUL ROMANO posted:

Hey Tom, I'm guessing you have a 3rd. Rail engine? The Pennsy dark green locomotive enamel appears spot on.

Paul,

  No for Third Rail...yes on Williams brass.

Tom

The both look great, George!!  They are a much heftier engine than my Western Maryland Russian Decapod.

@PRR8976 posted:

Paul,

  No for Third Rail...yes on Williams brass.

Tom

Tom, my mistake, I meant to direct my question to George, G3750. I guess you have Pennsy Decapods too.

Nothing big like that (and no problem). I mostly have PRR shifters. Quite content with going broke that way!

Tom

@PAUL ROMANO posted:

Tom, my mistake, I meant to direct my question to George, G3750. I guess you have Pennsy Decapods too.

Paul,

Not sure what question you were asking.  These 2 decapods are 3rd Rail.  I do have some Williams PRR steamers as well.

George

@PRR8976 posted:

Nothing big like that (and no problem). I mostly have PRR shifters. Quite content with going broke that way!

Tom

Tom,

Which shifters do you have?  I know you have a B6sb, right?

George

In HO you have to have huge radius  curves for those 10 drivers, I like our deep flanges.

As an ex HO modeler, I agree Dennis.  I bought an HO Western Maryland Russian Decapod and was surprised by the difference between it and the H9 Consolidation.

Getting back on topic, I also want to double head a pair of decapods for a coal train.  Until I find a second one, I run my decapod with a L1.  There is a great photo of an L1 and decapod pulling a long string of empty hoppers, and that is what I’m going to do for now.

The gear box of the Thirdrail Pennsy I1 Decapod is one of the better, slow running gear systems, in a larger locomotive, IMO. The first/front driver set, and the 4th driver set, are flanged, other drivers are flange-less, (blind drivers), to allow operation on small radius, O72 or less, layouts.  The 4 axle trucks, on the tender, can also be a problem, on small radius layouts.    Middle Shelf.

Right in this picture.  Third rail, manufactured, the I1 Decapod, with a short tender as noted above. Thank you for the great pictures. Mike CT.

George.....I would love to test the tractive effort when you double head them.....it's likely to be huge! My single RailKing Decapod from about 2002 is a monster.....

Peter

@G3750 posted:

Tom,

Which shifters do you have?  I know you have a B6sb, right?

George

George,

What I call my "modern ones" are the Williams model which is a B6sb and MTH put out an A5 several years ago and Lionel's 1989 reincarnation of the prewar B6.

The rest are Lionel's prewar models which were based on the B6 and came out from 1939-1942. There is something to be said for the prewar war ones, before circuit boards (although the wiring is for someone with 5-6 hands) which are now 78-81 years old and can easily go another 80 years. 

Good luck and hope you rack up many miles on your Decapods!

Tom

@Dennis Rempel posted:

In HO you have to have huge radius  curves for those 10 drivers, I like our deep flanges.

When I was heavily onto HO, I bought and built one of the Bowser die cast I1s; still have it boxed up someplace.

I think it'll take a 24" radius curve... is super quiet and a very strong puller.

Mark in Oregon

@PRR8976 posted:

George,

What I call my "modern ones" are the Williams model which is a B6sb and MTH put out an A5 several years ago and Lionel's 1989 reincarnation of the prewar B6.

The rest are Lionel's prewar models which were based on the B6 and came out from 1939-1942. There is something to be said for the prewar war ones, before circuit boards (although the wiring is for someone with 5-6 hands) which are now 78-81 years old and can easily go another 80 years.

Good luck and hope you rack up many miles on your Decapods!

Tom

I have the Williams B6sb, which has been converted to TMCC with ERR boards and sound.  Awesome little shifter!  Interesting little tidbit - the locomotive will run on O31 in reverse, but needs O42 (as stated on the box) if it is pushing cars.  That's because of the limited swing of the front coupler!

The earlier Lionel (pre- and post- war) locomotives are probably some of the most rugged, reliable engines on the planet.  The Carnegie Science Center (home of the Buhl Planetarium layout, aka the Miniature Railroad & Village) tends to use postwar Lionel steamers to pull its trains.  They are in continuous daily operation and like the Energizer Bunny, just keep going and going and going!

George

@Putnam Division posted:

George.....I would love to test the tractive effort when you double head them.....it's likely to be huge! My single RailKing Decapod from about 2002 is a monster.....

Peter

Peter,

I don't really know how well each Decapod will do in pulling cars.  I'm guessing 8-10 freight cars individually.  Double-headed we might be looking at 20-25 ore cars.  That's a test I will run at some point.

Unfortunately, right now the layout is in no shape to conduct this test.  We have lots of track feeders to connect, a number of switch machines to wire, and 1-2 power district buses to run before that is possible.  All of that will take time.  I am trying to only do things once and permanently, rather than give in to my impulse to run trains.    I know where that road leads - rework.

If your RailKing decapod is true to the prototype, it should be geared to slow running, brute strength.

A friend of mine (who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty ) has 9 of these 3rd Rail Decapods!    That's enough tractive power to pull Pennsylvania into the 21st Century!    I am jealous!

George

MikeCT,

Nice shots of your Decapods.  They are beautiful locomotives, aren't they?

George

@G3750 posted:

Peter,

I don't really know how well each Decapod will do in pulling cars.  I'm guessing 8-10 freight cars individually.  Double-headed we might be looking at 20-25 ore cars.  That's a test I will run at some point.

Unfortunately, right now the layout is in no shape to conduct this test.  We have lots of track feeders to connect, a number of switch machines to wire, and 1-2 power district buses to run before that is possible.  All of that will take time.  I am trying to only do things once and permanently, rather than give in to my impulse to run trains.    I know where that road leads - rework.

If your RailKing decapod is true to the prototype, it should be geared to slow running, brute strength.

A friend of mine (who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty ) has 9 of these 3rd Rail Decapods!    That's enough tractive power to pull Pennsylvania into the 21st Century!    I am jealous!

George

George, with their weight and traction tires.....I will bet more than 20-25 cars....Here is my RailKing Decapod....

Peter

Peter,

Very cool!  Like I said, I will try it out.

George

I love the 3rd Rail Decs and have both versions like you. Bob Bartizek told me to paint over the boilerfront numberplates a few years ago. I also trimmed the class lights a bit to sit a little straighter. Here's mine doubleheaded with ERRCo cruise:

Gorgeous Norm!  Thanks for sharing that.  As usual, your scenery and weathering are over the top!

My Decapods also have ERR boards.  I am looking forward to running them across the bridge hauling ore cars.

George

George, what sounds did you use? Lionel’s RS4 boards are starting to disappear now and I think the closest PRR sound from 3rd Rail/ERR is the ‘small steam’ version. I have two 3rd Rail M1a/bs I am thinking about converting over to ERR.

Great thread and nice pics of all the Decs. I bought a used MTH Premier Dec years ago and had ERR and 4 chuff modifications made. I don't know how it scores on scale and detail fidelity but it looks good pulling a string of tankers, hoppers or mixed freight. I have often watched the horseshoe curve videos with the decs fore and aft. Can't wait to see your decs in action George. An old poor photo of my short tender MTH Premier.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

George, what sounds did you use? Lionel’s RS4 boards are starting to disappear now and I think the closest PRR sound from 3rd Rail/ERR is the ‘small steam’ version. I have two 3rd Rail M1a/bs I am thinking about converting over to ERR.

Norm,

I used ERR Railsound Large Steam boards.  I believe that's what Bob Bartizek uses in his Decapods as well.

George

@pennsynut posted:

Great thread and nice pics of all the Decs. I bought a used MTH Premier Dec years ago and had ERR and 4 chuff modifications made. I don't know how it scores on scale and detail fidelity but it looks good pulling a string of tankers, hoppers or mixed freight. I have often watched the horseshoe curve videos with the decs fore and aft. Can't wait to see your decs in action George. An old poor photo of my short tender MTH Premier.

I would imagine that MTH Premier Decapod scores very well on its looks.  I had one on order before scrapping DCS in favor of exclusively TMCC.  Cancelling that pre-order for it was very hard, but necessary.  Converting yours to ERR was almost certainly the right course of action.  I would do the same if I came across one.

George

Here's my long-tendered Decapod pulling an ore train the length of the train room.

George

Looks great!!