I hate to ask but... who made it? Pennsylvania AB shark nose two rail

Can't say for certain, but Weaver sold a similar piece.

ECI

For what it's worth, I looked inside, and the shells are brass.

The Gearboxes look like Central Locomotive Works.     A company called Locomotive Workshop did kits for these I think, with etched brass sides and die cast nose/cabs.   I am not sure about the ends.   The LWS stuff was real craftsman kits - sort of like the story - a block of brass with the instructions to file away anything that does not look like a passenger shark.

the LWS kits came without power and CLW provided mechanisms for many things in the 60s-90s era.    the entire mechanism may have been CLW.    I am not sure of what the trucks looked like on a passenger shark, but CLW did a very nice brass sprung truck for their Alco PA models which might be the same truck.

In any case it looks very nice.

It's definitely not a Weaver, theirs had separate can motors driving each truck ("China drive").  My guess would be NJ Custom Brass.

those gearboxes do not look like anything NJCB ever did.    I saw a pair of the NJ units at a trains show once, I remember thinking the drive looked pretty crude - it may have had version of 2 motor drive predating the china block stuff.

the NJCB freight sharks, RS3s, RS1s and their S-series switchers used All Nation drives, or an identical knockoff.

NOT inferring the one above is a Weaver, but the ones they brought in were brass. I don't think they sold very well. They were one of the last offerings before Weaver closed shop.

ECI

I have thought the Weaver units sold pretty well.    I have only ever seen one A unit at the O Scale shows in Chicago, Cleveland or Indianapolis.    I think I have seen an AB set on the the Bay and maybe another single unit.    I expected to see more of them show  up at shows than I have seen.

The Weaver one looked really nice in person. 

I wasn't contradicting you, just mentioning that the mechanism does not look Weaver gearboxes.    But then I have never seen the underside of one.

@EastCoastIron posted:

NOT inferring the one above is a Weaver, but the ones they brought in were brass. I don't think they sold very well. They were one of the last offerings before Weaver closed shop.

ECI

The Weaver passenger sharks sold out very quickly, so fast that Weaver cataloged a second run.  When they talked to the builder about a contract for the second run, the builder insisted on a quantity that was double the first run.  Pre-orders for the second run were decent, but nowhere near the quantity that the builder wanted to produce.  The financial risk was too great, and Weaver reluctantly cancelled the second run.

@Bob posted:

Pre-orders for the second run were decent, but nowhere near the quantity that the builder wanted to produce.  The financial risk was too great, and Weaver reluctantly cancelled the second run.

That might be construed that they didn't sell that well.

ECI

@EastCoastIron posted:

That might be construed that they didn't sell that well.

ECI

Did you talk to Joe Hayter (President of Weaver Models) about it?  I did.  But by all means, speculate on!

@EastCoastIron posted:

That might be construed that they didn't sell that well.

ECI

I would guess that most who wanted them got them on the first run so there less demand for more.

I thought Max Gray imported shark nose in the 1950s. The drive looks like Central Local.

Can you post a front end photo?

Max Grey imported Freight Sharks I think.    I have an old catalogue, I will take a look.

Those Baldwin BP20 models were long.  20" +,  The original Weaver AB was powered A, non-powered B.   A lot, of the original B units, were powered, at Weaver's shop, by request.  There were additional A units for sale,  Pennsy ran ABA consists, Long Island railroad, after these units proved troublesome.  Makes a nice shelf model, IMO, too large, for most layouts.

The above pictures, of a well built model are not the 1990's Weaver Model.

@harley rider posted:

Can you post a front end photo?

Here are more pictures.

@prrjim posted:

Max Grey imported Freight Sharks I think.    I have an old catalogue, I will take a look.

Correct.

I dont know who made it, but it appears, to me to be built up from a kit. or scratch built  pre 1980's ( Open Frame motor)

As previously commented, the model in the photos is not a Weaver or NJCB BP20 model in that it has a cast metal nose and cab, while those imports had fabricated sheet brass ones. The model in the photo has a nose that is shorter and not as tapered as the prototype. There were significant differences in length between the noses on Baldwin freight and passenger sharks, and as a result the taper angles were different.  The model was possibly built using a Locomotive Workshop freight shark nose/cab casting.

I agree with PRRJIM, the trucks, gear boxes, and open frame motor appear to be a Central Locomotive Works components.     In its day it was a remarkable model.

@Keystoned Ed posted:

As previously commented, the model in the photos is not a Weaver or NJCB BP20 model in that it has a cast metal nose and cab, while those imports had fabricated sheet brass ones. The model in the photo has a nose that is shorter and not as tapered as the prototype. There were significant differences in length between the noses on Baldwin freight and passenger sharks, and as a result the taper angles were different.  The model was possibly built using a Locomotive Workshop freight shark nose/cab casting.

I agree with PRRJIM, the trucks, gear boxes, and open frame motor appear to be a Central Locomotive Works components.     In its day it was a remarkable model.

A cast metal nose and cab screams LWS.

@Mike CT posted:

.....Pennsy ran ABA consists, Long Island railroad, after these units proved troublesome.....

It didn't take long for these engines to be pulled from premier passenger service due to their reliability issues.  About half the pictures I have of BP20s show either an A-unit by itself (pulling 3-4 cars in commuter service) or in an AB consist pulling express cars.

The nose of the engine in the first and later posts is not of a passenger shark.  I agree it most likely came off a freight shark.  However, who ever built the engine did a good job.

I'd like to think they're (very nicely built) LWS BP-20 kits (Jan Lorenzen's Locomotive Workshops) as distinctly different from the (almost) popular RF-16 casting kits by Penn-Erie that LWS also listed and sold.

I believe the LWS BP-20's were of a similar vein as his other "in-house" offerings like the E-units, Erie Builts etc; usually a somewhat minimalist version of a CLW-like kit having an etched brass wrapper with a cast nose/cab, and some additional parts like cast truck side-frames and car body ends.

This listing from his 4th quarter 1977 newsletter.

Baldwin in fact evolved the design for these during production across three different batch's of the BP-20's (DR-6-4-2000's) for PRR, note Lorenzen's complaint regarding different measurements and car body details, making this a difficult production for LWS. Every now and then you see one of these tricky LWS kits well built (like perhaps our subject model)  and for me it's quite humbling.