I just bought my first wind up Marx CV

The Robert Grossman Co. has the key and flints, I know.  He is a great guy to deal with.  440-209-0535, best time to call is Tuesday or Thursday evening.

i use a 90% ethyl-methyl alcohol mix to clean off Marx clockwork motors.  probably any 70-90% alcohol based solvent will do, just happens i have that around for firing small live steamers.  drop the motor out of the shell, put the shell far away from any alcohol and have at it.  even though much of the alcohol will evaporate, don't forget that the other 10-30% is mostly water, so i follow cleaning by a few minutes under a blow dryer until the metal gets fairly warm and i know any moisture has evaporated.  lightly oil anything that moves except the inside of the governor and you should be good to go.

 

until you get a flint in the holder, it can be removed to prevent the metal from grinding down.  and yes, you can get an old lighter flint to fit.  i have a picture of that somewhere if i run into it later.

 

the screw key thread is 10-32.

 

post a picture of your CV?  there are quite a few variations and a picture is the easiest way to ID one.

 

cheers...gary

Congratulations on the windup CV - it is my favorite Marx locomotive!  The guys have already gave you great advice, so I'll add just a little clarification.  Marx made windups with both screw-in keys and square keys, Grossman offers reproductions of both.  If the locomotive is actually from 1939, it will most likely use a square key.  Also, oil is one of those subjects that generates a lot of deeply held opinions, so all I will say is it is best to use a non-gumming oil for the motor after cleaning (as Gary outlined).  Oil all the places where shafts rotate in the sideplates, make sure to get oil down in between the ratchet plate and big gear, but try to avoid getting oil in the governor - it will cause the locomotive to run fast.

 

Please post a picture, I would love to see your new CV!

 

Hi,

 

    Thank you all for the advice.  Mine is a square hole. I have attached photos of the items, the set also came with the tinplated frame caboose, but I already have my father's so the new one will be added to the for sale pile.

 

     Kevin

James,

 

    I will be keeping my eyes open for two rail track.  I already have a few of the battery operated accessories.

 

    Thanks,

 

          kevin

I was just thinking, would brake cleaner work? I basically evaporates as it dries. I have used this on chain saws and it really blasts away the gunk.

It ought to be OK - one good thing about Marx clockwork motors is that they are all metal.  No plastic or rubber parts to be concerned about like an electric motor, so a good cleaner should be fine.  Let us know how it turns out...

Did anyone inform you this stuff is habit forming?

 

Jim McClenin

Hi,

 

    Well, I clean up the internals of the CV and added few drops of oil to the gears.  I wind up the engine and the wheels really spin pretty fast.  When I place the motor alone on the track I give it a little nudge and it moves around 10' on my 031 track before I need to nudge it again for another 8'.  When I tack it off of the track the wheels spin like crazy.  Is there something that I need to adjust or work on to get it to move along on its own power?  As I mentioned I have not even placed the shell on the motor or attach any cars to it.  Also how many turns should I expect to wind the engine?  I would hate to over wind it.

 

    Thanks,

 

          Kevin

The motor by itself should run waaay over 100'.  Since it seems that the motor is running OK, you might carefully check the rear set of drivers and siderods for binding or drag.  Sometimes Marx windups with the stamped steel drivers suffer from LWS - Loose Wheel Syndrome.  The drivers can slip in or out on the axle, and if this happens to the rear drivers, the siderods can drag or bind on the end of the axles.

 

Most Marx ratchet motors wind about 7 or 8 complete turns from fully unwound to coil bind on the spring.  It is easier to keep track of half-winds, or 3 clicks of the ratchet.  You can carefully wind the motor - going very slowly after 14 half-winds - and count to see at what point it binds, then wind one less half-turn after that.  Marx used to advertise that their motor could not be overwound, but winding any clockwork motor to coil bind and forcing it might cause a weak spring or spring hub to break, so it is wise to wind carefully - after all, it is almost three quarters of a century old!

 

Let us know what you find...

 

Hey Kev

The motors are pretty tough, but being old, you can strip something, so easy does it. Watch the spring getting smaller as you wind...you can judge pretty close to when approaching fully tight. They need to be wound up fully for best performance. Also, wick oil between the coils of the main spring, they need to slid past each other while under tremendous pressure.

 

Joe

James,

 

 The one rear wheel will slide inwards to the frame and then bind up on the stud that holds the sliderod.  any suggestions on how to keep the wheel form sliding inwards to the frame?  Would a metal washer work as a spacer?

 

     Thanks,

 

          Kevin 

You can use washers to help keep it in place, but that may not cure the problem.  The driver will continue to loosen, and then start working it's way off the end of the axle, creating different problems.  There are a couple of different ways to deal with a loose wheel.  My preferred method is to remove the wheel from the axle, then use a center punch to make a series of small punch marks around the axle where the wheel should sit, then press the wheel back onto the axle using red Loctite to help keep it in place.  You can also use a small chisel to create ridges on the axle - it's just a poor man's knurling, either way.  Others use JB Weld worked into the hollow center of the driver, then press it back onto the axle.  With either method, be sure to allow a day for the Loctite or JB Weld to cure before using it.

 

I've used the center punch / Loctite method many times and so far it has held up very well.  If it is just the rear drivers and they are too loose for that method, I make a completely new oversized axle with 0.140" steel, using washers behind the drivers to keep everything centered... but that is a last resort.

 

Hope that helps, let us know how it turns out.

James,

 

    I used your method with the Lock-Tite and it worked well.  The engine makes it around my 031 loop on my 9x7 once, which I think is pretty good.  At some point I do plan on making a small layout for the Marx sets, which will be a much smaller layout, so it should be able to make a couple of trips before I need to rewind it.

 

    Thanks again,

 

         Kevin

I think I jumped the gun a bit.  After putting the shell back on, it was hard to get it to move.  Guess it need more work do to the weight of the shell.

 

   Kevin

I looked through my videos to find one that shows how a windup CV usually performs... this was the best I could find.  It shows a windup CV doubleheader on the outside O42 loop with a 14 car freight, and another windup CV on the inside O27 loop with a short passenger train.  Hopefully, it will give you an idea of the CV's potential:

 

Hi, Any ideas on why the cv would barely run after I put the shell back on? Is it too much weight now? I have read other postings where guys have found some wind ups just do not run well any more and have to swap out the motor with one that runs better when wound up. Thanks, Kevin

Without looking at it in person, it is hard to say what is happening when you put the shell back on.  Weight isn't the problem; I've used Marx motors in locomotives much heavier than a CV and they run fine.  Something has to be causing drag when it is in the shell.  Just a few ideas to check... make sure the screws that go into the front crossmember aren't hitting or dragging on the siderods.  I have seen "aftermarket" screws in Marx locomotives that would do just that, causing the rear drivers to lock up or at least drag hard enough to really affect the performance.  Also, make sure the rear motor mount - the cab floor - isn't bent.  In a CV it should be flat from front to back.  It might be possible that if it is out of alignment, it might cause the motor to drag somehow.  Also, check to make sure that there isn't something touching the sparking wheel when the motor is in the shell - you might remove the metal flap that holds the flint (if you haven't already) and try it that way.  The flap comes out easily with the motor out of the shell, just rotate it forward 90 degrees, and one side will slip out of the slot in the motor sideplate and it will come right out.   The only other issue that I can think of is the brake lever... sometimes they don't release very far when the motor is mounted in the shell.  If it is bent, it might be dragging on the gear, although they usually just lock up the motor if there is a problem.

 

Take a look at it and see what you can find.  There has to be something causing the problem.  If you like, I would be happy to work on it for you - just send an email to me (my email address should be visible in my profile).  I'm always glad to bring another Marx CV back to life!

Hi . You hit the nail on the head. The flint holder was against the striker wheel and the screws were hitting the slide rods . Now the engines makes over two trips around my loop. Now I just need to correct the couplers of cars and clean up the axles of the cars to not slow down the engine. Should the coupler attached to the engine be angled downwards? Tomorrow I will look at another cv wind up with 2 caps and the smoke stack long with a motorized cv. Thank you for your time and great advice. Now to work on my cars. Kevin

Glad you got it going, Kevin!  Yes, the coupler's shank on the locomotive should be angled.  This is the best picture I could find at the moment, not ideal but it will give you an idea of how the coupler should look:

 

 

The shank is angled, but the flat part with the slot should be horizontal and the tab should be vertical.  Just adjust as needed to mate with the tender coupler.  Don't forget to oil the car axles after cleaning them up - the four wheel cars actually roll very free if they are in good shape.

 

Hope you get the other CV - the "fancy body" CV with two domes, stack and handrails are the early ones.  Marx introduced the swing-peg CV in 1935, then produced the "fancy body" with the slot & tab coupler from 1936-38 (ish) with the plain body (single dome, no handrails) starting 1939 (ish).  Most of the early bodies will have a screw-in key and diecast drivers.  Post pictures if you bring it home!

Do not think you are alone in falling for a CV!  I got my first one a couple of months and I have gotten overboard and have now got a number of cars and engines and James has been by my side to get all of it running.  Wow, I didn't expect so much fun.

Now I am ready to help James get his live steamers running.  My My! More temptation.

Al

I have picked up quite a few Tin plate items since I started this post and did not think of getting a Hafner engine 2000 with tender, to dump cars and a caboose.  But I did and the $40.00 price was very tempting.

Al