Clarence Siman posted:G3750 posted:Lest we forget...
George
The ship in question is the USS Phoenix, CL-46
Thank you George!
J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
AmbBob posted:J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
1. Arlington Cemetery
2. Ground Zero
3. American Cemetery in Normandy
4. ISO Jima Mermoial
AmbBob posted:J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
1. Pearl Harbor/FORD Island
2. Gettysburg
3. Unknown Soldier/Arlington
4. Antietam
5. Normandy
Berkshire President posted:Whenever I see someone driving a Mitsubishi automobile, I kind of snicker to myself and wonder if they realize that the company that built their car also built the Zero Fighter in WWII.
Many years ago, I was talking with a WW2 fighter pilot, about the airfield in my hometown during the war (he's trained there), for a book project I never finished.
At the time, I was driving a Suzuki Samurai. When he walked me out to my ride when we were done, he took one look and laughed. I said, "Hey, I looked it up before buying this, and found that company didn't make any military equipment during the war." He slapped me on the back and said it was neat that I'd given that any thought before buying it. He then said he'd have ripped my notes out of my hand, burned them, then given me a swift kick to the backside had I'd driven there in a Mitsubishi vehicle.
He passed away a few years ago. Earlier this year, I went back there and visited his grave. He's got the badly-bent prop from a P-47 mounted next to his headstone!
ncdave posted:AmbBob posted:J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
1. Arlington Cemetery
2. Ground Zero
3. American Cemetery in Normandy
4. ISO Jima Mermoial
Spell check strikes again! I meant the
Iwo Jima Mermorial near Arlington.
Speaking of Iwo Jima, has anyone else seen the episode detailing how one of the flag raisers in the famous photo was improperly identified? Through pain staking research, the USMC and a local newspaper reporter were able to properly ID the Marine....who survived the war, lived a quiet life in CA, and passed away somewhat recently.
Clarence Siman posted:Also, another little known fact,( I only read it once so I may be mistaken ), is that the carriers were sending their Air Wings ashore and flew right into the middle of the attack, like the B-17's. Unarmed and low on fuel.
Actually, the planes coming in from the carrier were most of Scouting 6 (CVS-6) and Bombing 6 (CVB-6) squadrons from Enterprise. Having just delivered a Marine fighter squadron (VMF-211) to Wake Island and being under the command of Bill Halsey, Enterprise was already effectively at war, and those SBDs came in armed. In fact, at least one IJN aircraft loss is credited to one of the Dauntlesses (remarkable aircraft).
When Enterprise entered Pearl the next evening for fuel and supplies before going out on further patrols and the officers and crew watched the devastation unfold as they entered, Halsey was heard to say, "When this war is over, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell."
Clarence Siman posted:
George
The ship in question is the USS Phoenix, CL-46
I've been trying to get on NavSource all day to ID the pic; thanks.
El Classico posted:AmbBob posted:J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
1. Pearl Harbor/FORD Island
2. Gettysburg
3. Unknown Soldier/Arlington
4. Antietam
5. Normandy
Close...
1) Honolulu
2) Gettysburg cemetery
3) Arlington cemetery
..last two anybody?
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A date that should forever be remembered and a time to honor the heroes past and present who gave the ultimate sacrifice to secure and preserve our freedoms.
As the noted philospher once stated "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
aussteve posted:A date that should forever be remembered and a time to honor the heroes past and present who gave the ultimate sacrifice to secure and preserve our freedoms.
As the noted philospher once stated "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
Sadly, I think Pearl Harbor will have the same future impact that Gettysburg does now; it'll attract folks who love history and their eye-rolling kids who feel like they were drug to a prison camp for how bored they are.
Once the 'greatest generation' of WW2 vets are gone, I fully expect general interest in the WW2 years to drop off sharply.
There'll always be people who are into history, just as there are plenty of civil war re-enactors long after the last vet of that conflict passed, but for the most part, WW2 will be about as far removed as the revolution, the middle ages, and the creation of fire for the first time.
People, generally, are all about the new and think there's nothing to be learned from the past... 
Berkshire President posted:Speaking of Iwo Jima, has anyone else seen the episode detailing how one of the flag raisers in the famous photo was improperly identified? Through pain staking research, the USMC and a local newspaper reporter were able to properly ID the Marine....who survived the war, lived a quiet life in CA, and passed away somewhat recently.
The famous photo of the six marines raising the flag was actually the second flag raised on Mt Surabachi. The photo was used extensively in a war bonds effort stateside.
"On February 23, 1945, during the battle for Iwo Jima, U.S. Marines raised a flag atop Mount Suribachi. It was taken down, and a second flag was raised. Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal captured this second flag-raising."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/...jima-photo/86254440/
a good read....imho. the error was in the Rosenthal photo.
And the Island was not even fully taken yet! Harlon Block who appeared in the photo died hours later in a Japanese mortar attack.
Hot Water posted:Berkshire President posted:Whenever I see someone driving a Mitsubishi automobile, I kind of snicker to myself and wonder if they realize that the company that built their car also built the Zero Fighter in WWII.
Yes, VERY interesting. One summer day, I was driving back to the office from lunch, and ahead of me was a small Japanese car with a special state of Illinois "Pearl Harbor Survivor" license plate. I couldn't believe my eyes! I pulled up beside the car, and said loudly enough for the lady driving the car to hear, "you sure have some nerve driving THAT car carrying THAT license plate!!!!". She rolled up her car window, and turned right at the next street.
But would you or anyone for that matter have said the same if the lady was driving a German car ?
Dan Padova posted:But would you or anyone for that matter have said the same if the lady was driving a German car ?
I would have at least thought about it, and my father--82nd AB, N. Africa/Sicily/Normandy; 101st AB, Bastogne, Berchtesgaden--would have definitely said something.
Dan Padova posted:Hot Water posted:Berkshire President posted:Whenever I see someone driving a Mitsubishi automobile, I kind of snicker to myself and wonder if they realize that the company that built their car also built the Zero Fighter in WWII.
Yes, VERY interesting. One summer day, I was driving back to the office from lunch, and ahead of me was a small Japanese car with a special state of Illinois "Pearl Harbor Survivor" license plate. I couldn't believe my eyes! I pulled up beside the car, and said loudly enough for the lady driving the car to hear, "you sure have some nerve driving THAT car carrying THAT license plate!!!!". She rolled up her car window, and turned right at the next street.
But would you or anyone for that matter have said the same if the lady was driving a German car ?
Nope. The normal German solder fought like gentlemen, and their industrial might did NOT have much to do with a surprise attack on the U.S.. The Japanese on the other hand were complete different.
So we're supposed to boycott their products forever? 
US history is replete with allies who were later our enemies, and vice versa.
J Daddy posted:El Classico posted:AmbBob posted:J Daddy posted:Honolulu is where the U.S. flag flies half mast 24/7 to honor the fallen in the Pearl Harbor attacks. Can anyone name the other 4 places?
my guess;
1. Arlington
2. Pearl Harbor
3. Ground Zero, New YorkCity
4. Gettysburg
5. Iwo Jima
1. Pearl Harbor/FORD Island
2. Gettysburg
3. Unknown Soldier/Arlington
4. Antietam
5. Normandy
Close...
1) Honolulu
2) Gettysburg cemetery
3) Arlington cemetery
..last two anybody?
4) The Alamo?
5) The home of Betsy Ross?
As a side note, yesterday I took a real "Rosie the Riveter" to breakfast. She ended the war as a supervisor at the Ford Plant on Chicago's South Side. At 92, she's as feisty as ever...she still remembers very vividly exactly where she was and what she was doing on December 7th, 1941.
Farmer_Bill posted:So we're supposed to boycott their products forever?
US history is replete with allies who were later our enemies, and vice versa.
I'll let you take that up with my dad, if the subject merits talking about once you get to Heaven.
Suffice it to say, it's real hard for someone who did not make the sacrifices those men did to look one of them in the eye and tell them they're wrong.
By the way, before we get too far away from trains, and before people get carried away in righteous indignation about subsidizing the RRs, a little historical perspective is in order. The land grants essentially gave away land that was then mostly worthless and that would have remained mostly worthless had the RRs not been built. The RRs still own much of it because much of it is STILL worthless.
As for the loans that supplemented the grants, they *have* been paid back. The RRs did what neither automotive nor airborne traffic could do: they paid their debts.
A brief, simplified primer: http://www.coxrail.com/land-grants.asp
texastrain posted:As the Japanese general put it.... " I fear we have woken a sleeping giant.."
Yes, may we, as a nation of God fearing people, never forget this Day of Infamy. Many of the "Greatest Generation" fought for our Freedoms, some gave the upmost. My father, in both Europe and Pacific, never would speak much of his experiences in the Corp of Engineers. My father-in-law served in Europe as a tanker, have one pic of him peering out of lower hatch in skull cap and goggles on head, several pics of my father when in Pacific. My father lost two cousins on the Arizona, documented. Just one reason for his signing up at age 16, stretched the fact of his age.
God bless them all......
Jesse
Actually the supposed quote was:
I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
And it was supposedly said by ADMIRAL, Isoroku Yamamoto, it was used in both the movies, Tora, Tora, Tora and Pearl Harbor. It is believed that Yamamoto doubted that Japan could win a protracted war with the US, there is no documentation that he actually said the quote.
Doug
But would you or anyone for that matter have said the same if the lady was driving a German car ?
The IRONY is that the lady had Pearl Harbor "stuff" on a Japanese car. 
Germany only bombed Pearl Harbor in the movie Animal House.
If you had an "I survived Bastogne or Normandy or Auschwitz, etc" on a German car, the same kind of irony/borderline hypocrisy would exist, IMHO. But most things do come to pass, I suppose.
Both Japan and Germany have become strong allies to the U.S. in a post World War II world. Nonetheless, it is an interesting juxtaposition.
I haven't yet witnessed a Korean vet driving a Hyundai or Kia, though.
Hot Water posted:Dan Padova posted:Hot Water posted:Berkshire President posted:Whenever I see someone driving a Mitsubishi automobile, I kind of snicker to myself and wonder if they realize that the company that built their car also built the Zero Fighter in WWII.
Yes, VERY interesting. One summer day, I was driving back to the office from lunch, and ahead of me was a small Japanese car with a special state of Illinois "Pearl Harbor Survivor" license plate. I couldn't believe my eyes! I pulled up beside the car, and said loudly enough for the lady driving the car to hear, "you sure have some nerve driving THAT car carrying THAT license plate!!!!". She rolled up her car window, and turned right at the next street.
But would you or anyone for that matter have said the same if the lady was driving a German car ?
Nope. The normal German solder fought like gentlemen, and their industrial might did NOT have much to do with a surprise attack on the U.S.. The Japanese on the other hand were complete different.
The Wehrmacht were responsible for atrocities as well as the SS. I'm sure that Russians,Dutch,Danes and Norwegians would disagree with that statement. Also Brits and Americans who were in POW camps.
The bottom line about the Germans or the Japanese of 75 years ago is that they both committed atrocities. But from what I've experienced, the dislike of the Japanese since the war has been greater than the disdain for the Germans.
I was at the Pearl Harbor memorial on Pearl Harbor day several years ago. Ernest Borgnine was the keynote speaker. I noticed several Japanese families laying weaths out at the memorial. They could have had relatives who perished at Pearl Harbor, or were just expressing sorrow for the tragedy.
Around here, the German speaking churches all changed their services to English during the war, giving up a valuable part of their history.
War is a mixed up mess!
yardlet6 posted:Nope. The normal German solder fought like gentlemen, and their industrial might did NOT have much to do with a surprise attack on the U.S.. The Japanese on the other hand were complete different.The Wehrmacht were responsible for atrocities as well as the SS. I'm sure that Russians,Dutch,Danes and Norwegians would disagree with that statement. Also Brits and Americans who were in POW camps.
It's all relative....and I think Hot Water's comments had more to do with how they treated their POWs, especially Officers. While they were far from country clubs, the survival rate for Americans held in German camps was significantly higher than in Japanese camps, where the latter actually viewed death as a better alternative then being taken prisoner.
The Germans did not, for the most part, favor or encourage suicide as a potential route to victory. I believe that's where HW was going with this.
The atrocities committed by the Germans during the war were massive, frequent, and beyond inhumane. That is undeniable...and should never be forgotten.
That's it, I propose an absolute boycott on Georgia peaches due to the atrocities committed in Andersonville (no relation, I swear) prison. Seriously, how long do you guys plan on holding grudges?
My dad served in the pacific in both WWII and Korea. He owned a Japanese car, and he rode in my current Korean car without making a comment. Today, I understand that the Toyota Camry is the most American made car being built, all Fords, Dodges, and Chevys having higher percentages of foreign made parts than the Camry.
Celebrated his 18th birthday in boot camp in August 1944, and went on two liberties in Tokyo in September 1945. Quite a change of scenery for a poor kid who grew up in a Utah coal camp. He said that on his first liberty that he hardly saw a Japanese face because, "They were bowing constantly, scared to death that we would kill them on the spot."
Counted himself lucky not to be assigned to the USS Indianapolis, which was moored next to the ship he was assigned to in the spring of 1945.
To tie in with railroads, his summer job in high school was working on the section gang on the Utah Railway. Once rode a speeder all the way over Soldier Summit (60+ miles) to do track work in the Utah's Provo yard.
I can definitely understand the attitude and feelings of those directly involved with the war or those who lived through that period. I admire their sacrifice and resolve. Let's not forget in the past we have been at war with Great Britain (twice), Mexico, Canada (indirectly) and a few others. Oh and remember that Russia and China were our allies during the war.
I am still proud to have served and would not want to live anywhere else. The freedoms we have are unfathomable in the history of the world.
And we even allow grown adults to talk about and play with toys.
Actually and Ironically the 4th location where the U.S. Flag hangs at half mast 24/7 is in Texas and it is not at the Alamo. It's location is at Kinney County, Texas. In remembrance for early German settler's who were massacred by Confederate troops in 1862 at the Nueces River. These settlers were living in central Texas since 1836, and were loyal to the Union. As a group of settlers were fleeing for their lives, they where caught by the Confederate army and maliciously gunned down...
Anyone care to take a guess at number 5?
Hint: Think War of 1812....
BTW : The home of Betsy Ross is long gone... it was leveled and only one LIKE her home stands today....
Dan Padova posted:The bottom line about the Germans or the Japanese of 75 years ago is that they both committed atrocities. But from what I've experienced, the dislike of the Japanese since the war has been greater than the disdain for the Germans.
That's because allot of early settlers came from Germany. The U.S. national language was nearly German as well, the English language won by only a slim margin of one vote...
That "one vote" rumor isn't exactly what happened. As with many things these days, Mr. Snopes is your friend.. http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp
FJ
Saw that, yes Truth be known. English would always be the national language however if this bill would have become law, all future legislation would have been written and posted in German and English... makes you think...
Well I guess nobody guessed the 5th place that the U.S. Flag hangs at half mast 24/7, cause maybe nobody cares?... but here is the answer:
The 5th place is in the Post Cemetery near Fort Mackinac Island, Michigan. It honors the soldiers who came under surprise attack by the British and were killed during the start of the War of 1812.
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J Daddy posted:Saw that, yes Truth be known. English would always be the national language however if this bill would have become law, all future legislation would have been written and posted in German and English... makes you think...
Well I guess nobody guessed the 5th place that the U.S. Flag hangs at half mast 24/7, cause maybe nobody cares?... but here is the answer:
The 5th place is in the Post Cemetery near Fort Mackinac Island, Michigan. It honors the soldiers who came under surprise attack by the British and were killed during the start of the War of 1812.
I would have never guessed that. Great question! Should be on Jeopardy! BTW I was waiting for the answer
