In There a Better Way?

I believe I was middle of the road on this. I started out slow but started jumping the gun on some of it. Cost did hold me back a little but I wish now I would have had more patience on some of it. Thankfully I was also restricted with space.

Not sure where I fit in.   We had trains when I was a kid (who didn't?).  Then I discovered girls and cars, went off to the Navy, then school, work, marriage, kids, and other hobbies all consumed my time.  About 20 years ago, I got back into trains, first with a simple Christmas display, then I started buying tubular track and post-war stuff and did several tubular track layouts.  Moved to Fastrack, but never got it onto a permanent display, just had it running through the three rooms of my office suite.  Finally, I discovered command stuff and sold off virtually all my post-war stuff.  I really got into TMCC/Legacy and then an MTH engine caught my eye.  I got sucked into DCS as well!  We moved to this house and for the first time in quite a while, I had a room for a permanent layout again.  The rest as they say, is history!

I think the learning your way in is less emotionally turbulent because you learn to react to trouble differently. The experience you have makes it easier to tell if something is supposed to be the way that it is or not and you can decide whether or not you can do the repair yourself.

I think learning vs buying are two roads that arrive at the same place. One road requires patience and the other requires steadfastness. Which road suits you?

I'm in the middle. I jumped back in headfirst with a Visionline locomotive. The last engine I bought was a conventional 0-6-0. So I bought my way in, in that sense. But my layout is based on experiences with the first layout years ago. I learned what I liked and didn't like.

For me, maybe a little closer to learned my way in? My collection is mostly an inheritance from my grandfather, tinplate and postwar. I have added a little to it (buy), but a lot in his collection needed to be worked over to be made to right, a process very much in progress, so I learned to make repairs, repaint, bought tooling, learned some hobbyist machine skills, and added those to my career skills in electricity and electronics to fix trains and build a layout.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not sure where I fit in.   We had trains when I was a kid (who didn't?).

Me.  Bought my first O Gauge train 4 years ago.  Since I jumped in as an adult, I certainly bought my way in.  And I had my share of frustrations and product failures for sure.  But that's the way it goes when you enter into something in your 40's.  I can't go back and start learning as a kid.

Good point Mike.  You can't go back.  Great answers everyone.

Jon

Jon; this is a unique thread topic! 👍

I’d characterize myself as having learned my way back into the hobby. I purchased a Lionel set for my oldest son’s first Christmas in 1989. I set the train up on my wife and I’s bedroom floor several days before Christmas to make sure everything worked. Upon hearing the whistle and smelling the smoke, something “snapped” in my brain. The day after Christmas I pulled my childhood train set from the attic but, it wouldn’t run. A quick flip through the Yellow Pages led me to a nearby train store (JR’s Hobby Depot in Houston). Jerry got my engine running, sold me a few cars and a new transformer and 33 years later, I’m still in the hobby.

Raising three boys and having to make several job related relocations, forced me to adopt a “slow and steady” approach to the hobby. In the pre-internet days, I either taught myself how to fix things (infinitely easier before electronics became common) or was tutored by friendly hobby shop owners. My engine purchases tended to be few and those I did buy were generally on a pre-order that allowed me to stop by the hobby shop and make a deposit against the purchase price every few weeks till the engine actually came in.

Job promotions helped to provide the wherewithal to become a bit less tight-fisted where train purchases were concerned but, I have retained what I would characterize as a measured approach toward expanding my collection that continues now that I am retired.

While I have “wanted what I wanted” over my years back in the hobby, I’ve never really “wanted it all” nor have I allowed myself to have everything I wanted. The stuff in my collection all holds a special connection for me - either to people I’ve known and railroads I dealt with during my career or places I traveled. In retirement, my purchases are infrequent but, I have built enough of a collection that each Saturday when I change out the trains on my layout, everything is “new” to me again.

Curt

When I got my first O gauge train it was from a neighbor across the street. He would let me come over and watch his trains for hours and that was when I was 40. When he passed his wife knew how much enjoyment I got seeing his trains run and she passed them on to me. None of her kids wanted them. They were just Lionel conventional engines and rolling stock. From that point on I was hooked. Everything I have done has been pretty much from what I have learned here from all the great folks!

I didn't buy my first MTH DCS engine till 10 years later, so I would say I am right in the middle, I have fixed what I could read as much as I could and listened to what folks were willing to teach me!

Either way its a great hobby to get hooked on. I am sure there is a lot I would like to have but because of my budget I enjoy what I have!

That being said it's all about the fun anyways!

A 442 is a Oldsmobile

SEE?!  My first car was a Ford!

Jon

I think I am middle of the road on this. I started out in the learning mode for years with just 2 trains around the Christmas tree.  Then around the early seventies my father found a group in Miami thatcalled themselves The Gold Coast Collectors. Which put me in the position to buy my father back into the hobby. After he pasted I went back to learning my way into the hobby. Along the mid to late nineties I went back to buying my way into the hobby now I am learning my way again with my last permanent layout. Funny how things seem to go full circle and I must say that my current state of learning my way in the hobby is turning ou to be the most fun I have had in a long time. Enjoying all the stuff I bought during the buy-in portion of those years.

I sense a pattern...

Kid, Stud, Business, Married, Kids, College, Retired, All Worn Out

Ford, MGB, VW Wagon, Cutlass, MB Wagon(s), F350 Dually, Town Car

O27 PW, Super-O PW/TMCC, Fastrack PW/TMCC/Legacy, Atlas PW/TMCC/Legacy

Interesting question. I think there is some bias in the question, in the sense that the person who wrote it, like many of us, started in 3 rail O back before there was command control or got into it because at the time CC was too expensive, and I guess the idea is that over time you slowly expand your knowledge and learn as you build and grow so you learn the idiosyncrasies, learn how to give them the proverbial kick in the pants to get them going again, and thus be able to handle anything that comes up.

The thing is, given that command control has been around for over 20 years, there are a lot of people entering or in the hobby that have never been around conventional, weren't attracted to it, and thus are thoroughly in the modern mode with all its quirks. I don't think cleaning the commutator on a pullmor motor or fixing a sticky e-unit really has relevance to the modern trains, and I don't think that someone buying modern equipment is 'buying their way in', they reflect what the market is today. And yes, there are people who are well off enough that rather than build a layout, they can afford Trainworx building them a layout because they have the money and don't have the time or will to build one. There is a disadvantage to that approach, that unless the company that built it is available to trouble shoot or has thoroughly documented what they did (and I know nothing about what such a service does or doesn't do, couldn't afford it even if I wanted to), can be hard if things aren't working right, someone who built it would know more about debugging. It is a trade off, because that person might not have the time to build a layout themselves so by 'buying into it', they have trains they can run and a layout *shrug* .

One analogy to modern trains I can think of would be with cars. Lot of people did get their knuckles dirty in the old days, repairing them, and you also ironically learned to work around the problems those cars had, like trying to cold start an engine with an automatic choke. The difference is that with modern cars, that are quite complex, you don't need to get your hands dirty keeping them going because they are so reliable and they are very difficult to repair to boot. Where the analogy fails is that modern equipment is complex but it is more like older cars then it is like modern ones, it is complex and quirky and it is difficult to troubleshoot and repair in a lot of cases. Like with old cars, owners have figured out ways around the quirks, but that is a sad testament to what these units are IMO.

Like anything in this hobby, the better way is what works for someone. Will someone who 'buys their way' into the hobby be frustrated when the equipment shows its kinks? Yes, but the sad part is they shouldn't have to. Someone should be able to have a layout built for them and buy equipment and have it run if they don't have the time or inclination to build it. If someone bought a high end home theater setup and it behaved like the toy trains seem to be want to do, there would be **** to pay (fill in your favorite 4 or 5 letter anglo saxon word). For someone like this, buying their way in may be the only practical way for them to do it. I honestly find it kind of sad that in the 21st century that we have equipment in this hobby that is as quirky as a Saab 90 or an Italian sports car of the day.  Given the quirks of these things, it might be better to start slow and build up your collection (heck, I have no choice but, not gonna be spending 2k on an engine myself, prob be all used equipment when I go into buying mode again) and learn how to deal with it, but in the end that might keep a 'buy into it' person out of the hobby.

@bigkid posted:

The thing is, given that command control has been around for over 20 years, there are a lot of people entering or in the hobby that have never been around conventional, weren't attracted to it, and thus are thoroughly in the modern mode with all its quirks.

Yes.  That describes me.  As a kid and later as a young adult, I was always drawn to HO and N because I admired the scale aspect.  I never gave O any thought because I assumed it was all postwar.  Correction, I didn't even know the term "postwar" back then but I thought all O was more on the toy side.  When I discovered that there was a scale side and command control, that's what drew me in.  Without that, I'd be off doing something else.  Or into HO.

I had trains as a kid. Only ran them a few years and then slot cars took over.  Got back into it 35 years ago with my trains from my youth running around the tree. Started building a layout in our older house and probably did everything wrong starting with the benchwork.

When we decided to move I started planning a new layout. It would feature Gargraves track with at the time ROW turnouts and then later Ross. I started out with Postwar. Bought a few pieces. Was pretty priced out as far as engines and rolling stock. I needed runners. Not collectibles. Luckily I stopped and focused on the layout. Which in the long run was probably the smartest thing I’ve done in the hobby the way it changed so much in the early 90’s. I saw many at the time go crazy buying MTH Proto 1 engines and put them away while dreaming of the great layout they were going to build. That dream probably turned into a nightmare for some. Next thing you knew. TMCC and DCS had arrived and what they bought was no longer state of the art and was still in the box.

I bought some track and started on the benchwork before we moved. I had planned to build in stages as that was the only way I could afford to do it. I would spend 30 to 40 dollars a week on supplies every Friday. I would buy what I needed next to keep the project moving forward.  Whether it be lumber, wiring or track. No trains. At shows I use to seek out craftsman kits. They were a good break from working on the layout and there was always one on the workbench in some stage of completion. I’m kind of envious of the guys that could go and right out a check for all the lumber and track at once. My plan required at the time a Ross double crossover. Took me 2 months to save up for it. In today’s market that figure to me would be staggering to buy it all at once. I had a master plan but building a bit at time gave me time to think it through. I still purchased trains through the build but not in any great quantity.

After 35 years. I’m still tweaking and fine tuning. I re arrange track for better operations mostly in the yard areas. The mainline has pretty much remained intact. Back to the trains. In the early 2000’s I was big into the NYC. Big engines and name passenger trains. I sold a lot of it off and now just focus on the Rutland. Smaller motive power that looks good on my 072 curves and manageable trains size wise. You have to pretty re letter and number close enough engines to build a roster. I found another part of the hobby I’ve come to enjoy. As far as prices. My comfort zone is 7 to 800 these days for a steamer. Which works for what I’m doing. I’m more interested in building a prototypical roster than a collection. Did I mention I now belong to 3 RR Historical society’s and enjoy doing research.

I do watch a lot of the young guys today that are really into the hobby on You Tube. Other than the unboxing part I enjoy watching their stuff and seeing what they are up to. I do feel some are missing out on what to me turned out to be an enjoyable part of the hobby. Building kits and re detailing engines and rolling stock. Most layouts seem to feature the same RTR buildings out of the box.
Everyone has a different view about this hobby. I’ve found I can always learn new ways of doing things that’s why I try to read as many posts as I can.

Yes!  When I was in my 20's I built kits because it was what I could afford, and what I had room for.

You guys should've seen the layout I built after we got married.  It was WAY over built: 2 x 4 construction, 1/2" plywood top, supporting a O-31 loop with a straight on one side, and a O-22 switch on the other.  The thing would sit on felt pads on the tiny kitchen table in our apartment.  I wish I had a picture.  It was Frankenbenchwork!

Jon

@KOOLjock1 and all - another interesting topic - real thinkers in this group - keeps me thinking

Since the question was "Is there a Better Way?" for getting into the hobby, maybe we should consider what a hobby is.   A dictionary might define it as "An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure."  I really kind of liked the definitions related to birds and horses, but that is for another forum.

So if its a matter of pleasure, getting to the pleasure part is the point. How we get there is a matter of choice which related to how we are wired. Perhaps a good example of preferences is in how scale modelers and traditional toy train modelers approach the "hobby".  Very different points of view, strong likes and dislikes, even different jargon. Do you prefer pre-war, post-war, modern; two rail, three rail; traditional or proto-typical; loops or point to point. 

Our hobby does pose a challenge to the pleasure part. If our equipment is prone to breakdown and we get frustrated by it, that does not get us to the pleasure part. Having a glitch pop up at inopportune times is extremely frustrating for me - especially if I can't run trains for my grandkids or a guest can't see the layout running. Those are the times I yearn for our equipment to be more robust and failure resistant. Placing a post-war engine on the tracks that hasn't run in years, applying power and having it run - well pretty amazing. But I do like all the new bells and whistles of the modern equipment, so I'll put up with the failures.

So is there A Better Way? To me the Better Way is to get to the joy, happiness and pleasure of the hobby as quick as possible and understand the Better Way is different for each of us. 

Nice!

Jon

I had a Lionel O gauge steam set received for Christmas, 1955 and set up on a 5x9 table built for it. Basic stuff. Added a 225 C&O Alco and an aluminum passenger car (one) later on with my own Christmas gift money. Enjoyed it thoroughly but traded it all in for HO in the early 60s which was kinda mistake. Gave it all up during high school

Returned to model rr in the early 80s with HO which was a disaster. Then I bought a starter Lionel 027 set for my young son and that rekindled my interest.

So I guess 8 would say that I learned first - the hard way - but once I caught the  Lionel bug, I jumped in the deep end. Train shows were common in the Cleveland area back in the 80s, and you could pick up almost anything but the real expensive stuff easily. MPC diesels sold for under $100 and I bought lots.
Eventually, I sold off most of them and stressed postwar stuff (and remakes). Now I have a smattering from all eras, even a couple prewar sets. More than I will ever need, but plenty of variety, that’s for sure.
My advice to newcomers is to restrain your purchases, especially at first , do a lot of reading on building a layout, etc.,  stick to one or two favorite road names for motive power, then build a useable and well thought out layout and enjoy yourself.

Yep.  Over the years I purchased many items that have since been sold WAY below purchase price.  I HAD to have them at the moment I guess.

Jon

Started in early 60's with post war. Then girls, rock and roll etc. (get my drift) A fun distraction Next marriage, kids. Responsibilities and funds were for raising a family. Actually had a false re-start during family responsibility years.

Last 6+ years, jumped back in kinda foolishly. A few impulsive purchases without research etc. Could have saved a few $'s. So, what can I say? Guess my experience with this hobby has a little of everything.

One thing for sure, having fun. Even with a few miss steps, it's a great way to enjoy ones time. Joining a club, meeting folks for breakfast before a show.  Can't be beat.

If the goal is building a neat or layout empire, my advice to a newcomer is to don't buy too many engines - these things will subtract valuable time away from actually accomplishing layout  work. One or two engines and just one command system is a prudent approach IMO.

Getting these trains to work "right" and learning operating systems has detracted way too much from the pastime of model railroading. Reading manuals, books, forums, and staring at digital devices to get trains to run is NOT what model railroading should be about IMO.  While I think a certain amount of tinkering has always been involved in the hobby, the exuberant quantity of time it takes to diagnose problems with modern electric trains and command systems has ruined it to an extent. It becomes a downer.

If you're goal is collecting and looking at trains in a static state, then all of the above is N/A

I didn't have any O scale at all until I turned 40.  Bought a MTH RailKing RS3 with Locosound around 1991 just because it was painted in Seaboard Air Line colors, owned it for 3-4 years before I bought anything else, including track.

Price of steam engine always seemed high to me until I saw some Williams/Samhongsa brass on Ebay, even after converting them to PS2 the price was still low compared to say a MTH Premier steamer.

Then came the conversion to BPRC.  Wish I had done this first, it would have saved me a lot of $$$.

I'd say I started slow, but even now I feel I have accumulated too many engines and would be happy with half a dozen instead of the over 2 dozen I have now.  Only have approx 50 pieces of freight cars and 2 dozen passenger cars.  I don't jump on the next bright/shiny thing that comes along.

Keeping my buying habits (for engines) mainly to something SAL or ACL owned, I believe keeps the cost manageable.  I usually buy something at a low price if I'm going to turn around and modify/repaint it into SAL or ACL colors.

I probably haven't bought anything in close to 2 years now, last thing I remember was a 3D printed body of SAL motorcar 2028 3D printed by Zach Pabis:

Used Weaver RS3 trucks and homemade chassis.

Seaboard had some odd equipment and I have managed to buy/modify the majority of what they had.  My only wishes now would be to have a 2-10-0 Russian Decapod and a 3D printed body and tender for a streamlined 4-6-2.  The current Decapods are more than I want to pay and a 3D printed streamlined 4-6-2 shell may be in my future.

Interesting thread, Jon, and thanks Transman, for pointing out that a 4-4-2 is/was an Olds. The good ol' days.

I'm with Bill, in that "learning your way in is less emotionally turbulent,"  and I'm glad to have learned my way into this hobby, rather than buying my way into it. Like many on the O scale forums, I had a Lionel 027 set as a kid, which sparked my interest in electric trains. Then after adolescence, high school, college, military service, career changes, graduate school, and finally retirement, I was able to continue in the hobby about 50 years later with a couple of permanent layouts, 20 years apart.

But you learn by doing. On my current smaller sized 88 sq. ft. layout, I ran conventional only until about 4 years ago, then switched to all command control. That was about the only major change and what a difference! The grandkids love controlling the engines with a remote. Along the way, I've learned to make minor repairs and have accumulated an adequate model trains small tools collection, including a soldering station that has come in very handy.

I've changed out motive power and rolling stock by selling the older and buying the newer, so I never tire of the same trains. I'm only glad I haven't sunk a small fortune into this hobby right off the bat. For me it's been a sequential learning curve. I think those who buy expensive trains without building a layout first are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, and spending way too much, too soon. Then when failures occur, their stress level goes way up.

Lately, I've been spending less on O scale trains and more on other things including traveling and my pedal steel guitar and amp, which I've had refurbished and now play in a small group. I've found that playing music seems to be more satisfying than running the trains. However, I get satisfaction from both "hobbies."

Over time, you learn what works and what doesn't. But then that's just my 2 cents.  😉

I miss the posts from the guy with the initials JR who claimed he spent $200,000 on Lionel trains in 6 months.  Would buy 4 passenger sets to get 1 set that was without any issues.  I found that a tad extreme, but entertaining.  Wonder what his thoughts would be on this topic.

@William 1 posted:

I miss the posts from the guy with the initials JR who claimed he spent $200,000 on Lionel trains in 6 months.  Would buy 4 passenger sets to get 1 set that was without any issues.  That was a tad extreme, but entertaining.  Wonder what his thoughts would be on this topic.

I just want to be friends with JR, I'd take all his rejects and build myself quite a fleet!

@William 1 posted:

I miss the posts from the guy with the initials JR who claimed he spent $200,000 on Lionel trains in 6 months.  Would buy 4 passenger sets to get 1 set that was without any issues.  I found that a tad extreme, but entertaining.  Wonder what his thoughts would be on this topic.

He's been selling off everything on ebay for a while.

It's a shame.  If you take things slowly and read the reviews and the forums, you see patterns emerge.  You can often save a lot of trouble before pulling the trigger on a big ticket item if you see a trend in design problems, or board failures, or paint colors.

Couple that with years of wiring, track-laying, and operating experience and a lot of those issues rarely raise their ugly heads.

Jon

As the late John Houseman used to say "I did it the old fashioned way, I "learned" it.