Indianapolis O Scale Show??

The outfit hosting it, which publishes some online magazines, shut it down last year.    They apparently tried to get someone to take over but no one stepped up.   so they let the hotel contracts lapse and gave it up.  

There is an NMRA show sometime this fall in the Indy area that sounds interesting.

@prrjim posted:

The outfit hosting it, which publishes some online magazines, shut it down last year.    They apparently tried to get someone to take over but no one stepped up.   so they let the hotel contracts lapse and gave it up. 

There is an NMRA show sometime this fall in the Indy area that sounds interesting.

I went to the NMRA show at the Franklin IN fair grounds. It was a great show. Lot's of venders were  there.

I don't remember seeing any O scale 2 rail but I wasn't looking for any.

@prrjim posted:

The outfit hosting it, which publishes some online magazines, shut it down last year.    They apparently tried to get someone to take over but no one stepped up.   so they let the hotel contracts lapse and gave it up.

Next O scale meet is the Strasburg meet on Oct 15th. Check out the Announcements area.....

As I recall, the Indianapolis O meet was cancelled because the hotel wanted a serious increase in hall rental fees for future years (along the lines of what 2 weddings might bring in) which the show manager / owner was afraid would price them too high to obtain maximum attendance.  They looked around and asked others for alternatives, but what they got was (1) don't raise the table or attendance fees, (2) stay in a major metropolitan area or maybe even move to a larger metropolitan area, regardless of cost, and (3) change the time of year for this show and don't change the time of year.

No useful consensus, so show is on hiatus, not actually ended, yet.

Chuck

The Indy show was a very nice regional 1 day show.    HOwever, it never quite made it to a two day show.    Whether it is the region or something else.     As a one day show, why do you need to rent a big expensive fancy hotel?    When I go to a train show, my budget is aimed at the trains, not the restaurants and the hotel rooms.     I don't care for the big expensive places personally.

The Cleveland show is an example of what appears to be a successful one day show.    It is currently being held in a union hall.   It has been in a college Gymnasium, and it has been in a hotel ballroom.    There are lots of less expensive venues, if you aim at a one day show vs trying to make it much bigger multi day event.

Perhaps the Indy show could back to its roots and settle on a one day show in a less expensive venue.

Answer:. No show in 2022.  Thanks to all.. l got an email making me think l was missing it this weekend.

More details can be found here:

         Saving the Indy O/S Scale Meet (12/23/21) ] Brad Kowal

Mike

The Indy show was a very nice regional 1 day show.    HOwever, it never quite made it to a two day show.

How soon we forget - it was a 2 day show that was a full day on Fri (9-5) and Sat. (9-2).  That vendors started packing up at 11 am on Sat. was just another symptom of why shows fail.

I haven't figured out how the Strasburg show works, except by a long drive by car, as l do .  l just checked flying into Lancaster... Southern Airways Express flies from Pittsburgh and Dulles to Lancaster, but no way directly from northeast., no other airlines into Lancaster, and  rental cars at Lancaster Apt.?  I could fly into Pitt. and on to Lancaster directly, but on Southern Airways Express Cessna's and Pipers, not 747's.  I don't think there is any way to get to Strasburg by train... No run into town on the Strasburg ... Amtrak to Lancaster, and then rental car?  People get there.  How do you do it, if by public transportation.?

@colorado hirailer posted:

I haven't figured out how the Strasburg show works, except by a long drive by car, as l do .  l just checked flying into Lancaster...

I didn't even know that Lancaster had an airport!

I'd be a wee bit leery of flying there:

Maybe fly in Harrisburg........

The Reading PA airport  or even Philly  PHL with a rental car is another alternative.   Less than an hour from the Reading airport over an hour from PHL airport.

Provide your location, maybe prospect for a local car pool ride from an airport??

Vendors don't start packing up if they are selling stuff.    They start packing up early if no one is buying what they are selling,      Remember they are business people for the most part, and if sales are not happening, they decide it is not worth more of their time.

@colorado hirailer posted:

I haven't figured out how the Strasburg show works, except by a long drive by car, as l do .  l just checked flying into Lancaster... Southern Airways Express flies from Pittsburgh and Dulles to Lancaster, but no way directly from northeast., no other airlines into Lancaster, and  rental cars at Lancaster Apt.?  I could fly into Pitt. and on to Lancaster directly, but on Southern Airways Express Cessna's and Pipers, not 747's.  I don't think there is any way to get to Strasburg by train... No run into town on the Strasburg ... Amtrak to Lancaster, and then rental car?  People get there.  How do you do it, if by public transportation.?

I would think if you took the train to Lancaster, the Uber/Lyft to the firehouse would be the easiest thing to do. PHL is on the complete wrong side of Philly, it’ll leave you with an hour and a half ish (more???) drive.  Harrisburg is closer, a pretty straight shot down 283 and you can fly there from a lot of hub cities.

@prrjim posted:

Vendors don't start packing up if they are selling stuff.    They start packing up early if no one is buying what they are selling,      Remember they are business people for the most part, and if sales are not happening, they decide it is not worth more of their time.

Jim,

You're implying that they would use that extra time to go somewhere else where they might actually sell more stuff.  Unfortunately it's not gonna happen the same day.  The day is written off.

I would expect them to stick around instead, complain about the poor sales until closing time, not reserve a table for the next year, and use that spare time to go somewhere else where they might actually sell more stuff.

Mike

@mwb posted:

How soon we forget - it was a 2 day show that was a full day on Fri (9-5) and Sat. (9-2).  That vendors started packing up at 11 am on Sat. was just another symptom of why shows fail.

@prrjim posted:

Vendors don't start packing up if they are selling stuff.    They start packing up early if no one is buying what they are selling,      Remember they are business people for the most part, and if sales are not happening, they decide it is not worth more of their time.

I live near Indianapolis.  Not a 2-rail O guy, but I try to support any local show.  The last time I attended this show was several years ago; it was before I retired, so I could only go on Saturday.  I arrived shortly after it opened on Saturday morning - the admission charge was around $20 (a typical local show was $3-4 at the time), which included the privilege of visiting some local layouts.  Since I had never seen the layouts, I paid the money.  Entered the small trading hall only to find that many of the vendors were already gone and most of the others were hurrying to pack up.   Went to visit visit the layouts - two of them had virtually no scenery and one was not capable of running a train.

To say that I felt disappointed and ripped off is an epic understatement, and I hope it's understandable why I never went back.

I understand that 2-rail O is a niche market and there are a lot of expenses involved.  But if you're going to put on a 2-day show, MAKE SURE THAT THE VENDORS STICK AROUND and have the layout hosts prepared to offer a worthwhile experience.

I don't know how many other local people had an experience similar to mine (probably not enough to provide sufficient additional revenue), but I do know that a local NMRA show (all scales) in late August drew 1100 attendees.  Really seems like the O-scale bunch should have considered combining their show with another local event, but for whatever reasons they chose not to.   

@prrjim posted:

Vendors don't start packing up if they are selling stuff.    They start packing up early if no one is buying what they are selling,      Remember they are business people for the most part, and if sales are not happening, they decide it is not worth more of their time.

That's wishful thinking.

I was a table holder there for several years representing a business as well.  Every year I did that show as a vendor I watched better than 1/2 the room start packing at noon, if not earlier.  It did not matter who or how many were coming in the door or not -- they packed and hit the road.  We usually had some of our better sales on Sat. but the room was clearing out fast.  Since we were not leaving until the next morning, we stayed to the bitter end.

Harrisburg International (which is actually located in Middletown would be your best fly in.  It is right along 283. Short ride to Lancaster.

Coming in from the West to Strasburg  is (my opinion) a bit of a PITA as you hit a lot of tourist traffic on 30.

Here's a radical thought: Hold the Fall show in York, and people could hit both the TCA and the 2 rail show.

The old EOS shows split off one of the 3 shows to a different locale and they all seemed to do well.

ECI

If you want to keep vendors in place until a certain time, add a refundable surcharge. If table holders leave before a certain time the surcharge is forfeited. At the given time the promoter can walk around and hand out the surcharge to those still in place.

@EastCoastIron posted:

If you want to keep vendors in place until a certain time, add a refundable surcharge. If table holders leave before a certain time the surcharge is forfeited. At the given time the promoter can walk around and hand out the surcharge to those still in place.

That would be a popular thing to do.  

This was posted a few days ago about the NMRA show which is going to include O & S scale ..hope it is great show and can grow !

Cheers Carey

Thanks, Carey!  Looks to be a hour further west from me; maybe some better advance advertising would help them, too.

@RoyBoy posted:

That would be a popular thing to do.  

It is also unpopular to arrive at a show later in the day (but well within the posted hours of the show) and find many of the dealers have gone. Rarely do you get your admittance fees refunded.

The number of attendees drops like a stone after lunch on the second day.  And then usually only the people there are looking for real cheap deals.  So for many it will cost them more money to stay than it would to leave even if there was some type of penalty.

OK, we'll chain 'em to their tables!

@BenLMaggi posted:

It is also unpopular to arrive at a show later in the day (but well within the posted hours of the show) and find many of the dealers have gone. Rarely do you get your admittance fees refunded.

@rdunniii posted:

The number of attendees drops like a stone after lunch on the second day.  And then usually only the people there are looking for real cheap deals.  So for many it will cost them more money to stay than it would to leave even if there was some type of penalty.

@EastCoastIron posted:

OK, we'll chain 'em to their tables!

A friend who organizes classic car shows offers a substantial door prize.  Each dealer who hasn't packed up at the end of the show is entered into the drawing.  He says it really helps with keeping dealers around.  We're thinking of doing something like that for our next club show.

@EastCoastIron posted:

Here's a radical thought: Hold the Fall show in York, and people could hit both the TCA and the 2 rail show.

If by this you mean to have the 2 rail scale show set up within the Eastern Division York show I believe you will have a problem.  The typical 0 scale modeler would not necessarily want to bother with TCA member fees.

There is a lot of empty space available at the TCA York show but not too many takers for the same reason that there is a lot of vacancies.  $$$$$  One entire building is no longer used.

One of my colleagues has been setting up at York for quite a few years and had to stop due to the fact the numbers just do not work.

Consider all the well known names who no longer work the show or only go once a year.

Deficit spending does not work in the private sector.  Almost all business questions can be answered by following the dollar.

Things to consider:  the internet is changing the way we live,  modelers are not being replaced at the rate we are expiring, many in the model train age range are on a fixed (broken?) income, travel expense has increased, motel costs have gone up,  product pricing is rising quickly, health expenses have replaced disposable train money,  ageing can simply diminish the desire, (insert your reason here_____________________).

Alas, the local firehouse train shows are still a great venue for affordable tables, short shows  low cost admission, great pricing of used models.

See you at the Strasburg PA firehouse train show October 15 !!

@Tom Tee posted:

.......on a fixed (broken?) income..........

My entire career was on a broken income!     Retirement fixed that for me! 

Alas, the local firehouse train shows are still a great venue for affordable tables, short shows  low cost admission, great pricing of used models.

See you at the Strasburg PA firehouse train show October 15 !!

Can't beat the costs doing Strasburg as a vendor; see you there!

@rdunniii posted:

The number of attendees drops like a stone after lunch on the second day.  And then usually only the people there are looking for real cheap deals.  So for many it will cost them more money to stay than it would to leave even if there was some type of penalty.

Then either don't charge admission for the show after vendors have left, or change the hours of the show to only be when vendors will be at their tables. If the show advertises a range of hours, the show and the vendors should be obligated to be open and selling during those hours.

@Tom Tee posted:

If by this you mean to have the 2 rail scale show set up within the Eastern Division York show I believe you will have a problem.

2 separate shows, same date. Like the old bandit shows! If you would read what is written and NOT what's in your head, you would do OK!

@prrjim posted:

The outfit hosting it, which publishes some online magazines, shut it down last year.    They apparently tried to get someone to take over but no one stepped up.   so they let the hotel contracts lapse and gave it up. 

There is an NMRA show sometime this fall in the Indy area that sounds interesting.

HENDRICKS COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS SATURDAY SEPT 19, 2022.  The best show!!!

@prrjim posted:

The outfit hosting it, which publishes some online magazines, shut it down last year.    They apparently tried to get someone to take over but no one stepped up.   so they let the hotel contracts lapse and gave it up. 

The magazines came before we took over the show. We did not shut it down, the hotel did that for us by upping the costs by 100%. We did NOT try and get someone to take over. We decided it was not going to work and stepped away. If anyone else thought they could pull it off they could try. If we had a hotel contract there would be a show. Honestly, I have no idea where some of you are getting your information but please try and keep it based in reality.

Dan,

When I said "shut down" I merely meant  you stopped doing it.   It was not meant to be negative.     I had heard at the last show two rumors circulating.   One was the new contract with the hotel was too expensive to make it work which appears to be true.    The second one was that some other group/person was considering taking over the show, which appears to be not true.       I also did not say the show came before the magazines.    I merely said the same people that published the magazines had been running the show.   

I apologize if I offended you.    I certainly didn't mean to criticize you.    I was merely passing on the stories that I heard floated at the last Indy show.

@prrjim posted:

Dan,

I apologize if I offended you.    I certainly didn't mean to criticize you.    I was merely passing on the stories that I heard floated at the last Indy show.

No problem... I just found this thread and wanted to set the record straight. There were a lot of people who had many suggestions on how to run a show yet no one could pull it off once it was time to put the money down.

Now, we could have gone with a one day show in a much smaller space but the issue here is dealers. Indy, as Chicago, has always had Bill Davis, Rails Unlimited, Caboose Stop Hobbies, Des Plains, etc...  Those people will not drive as far an Indy for a 5 hour show. We did not want to go in that direction but if anyone else wanted to, that was fine.

Strasburg is a great show and we try and get out there once a year. There are many more O scale modelers in that area then Indy and the dealers and people with stuff to see make it a great place to buy. I did not see Indy turning into that. If anyone wants to try please go ahead. People have been telling Amy and myself what to do for two years now but no one has done anything themselves.

We will be at the NMRA show this November and see what dealers they can attract. Here is hoping for a good show.

@railroad-guy posted:

Strasburg is a great show and we try and get out there once a year. There are many more O scale modelers in that area then Indy and the dealers and people with stuff to see make it a great place to buy. I did not see Indy turning into that.

That almost makes an argument for Strasburg to expand to be Indy,   I do understand that Strasburg will have a few(?) clinics in Oct. And then there's the Harrisburg All O meet.  Maybe a meeting of the minds is in order.....

We will be at the NMRA show this November and see what dealers they can attract. Here is hoping for a good show.

Look forward to what you think about it.  Cleveland meet is also in Nov.

@mwb posted:

That almost makes an argument for Strasburg to expand to be Indy,   I do understand that Strasburg will have a few(?) clinics in Oct. And then there's the Harrisburg All O meet.  Maybe a meeting of the minds is in order.....

Look forward to what you think about it.  Cleveland meet is also in Nov.

Please do not make any changes to the Strasburg meet, it is perfect just as it is!

@EastCoastIron posted:

2 separate shows, same date. Like the old bandit shows! If you would read what is written and NOT what's in your head, you would do OK!

ECI anonymous, thanks for adding the missing key word and clarifying your helpful suggestion.  On this forum simply using the word York usually defaults to the TCA Eastern Division  York Fairgrounds semi annual meet.

FYI, the 0 Scale Strasburg show is usually scheduled for the Saturday start of the York meet week when early arriving York attendees frequently migrate to Strasburg for the many RR places of interest.  At the Strasburg firehouse show have many 0 scale items needed by 3 rail modelers.  York attendees really bump up the walk in crowd at our shows.

Sorry to have set you off...I just listen to the voices in my head,  sometimes they have some real fun ideas.

Move the Fall Strasburg show to York and make it easy for them to get to it. The old EOS shows ran 3 shows over 2 locations and it worked pretty well, and you might get some new 2 rail blood that you don't get at Strasburg. Any 2R TCA members could visit the TCA.

ECI

Clearly stated.

It would pose a logistical problem for those vendors who set up at both shows.

Plus commitments are in place for fall Strasburg shows down the road.

Never the less,  positive constructive thinking.

I really don't picture anyone trying to sell at both venues. I suppose it could be done, but I don't think I would attempt it! Maybe someone like Norm Pullen could do it effectively.

ECI