Info Needed: BLACK GREAT NORTHERN S-2, 4-8-4 Northern Steam Engine

Jim,

 

As a suggestion, why don't you try that question on the "REAL TRAINS FORUM"!

 

FREDSTRAINS

Mainly since he is asking about the MODELS that Sunset/3rd Rail and MTH made, in both 2-Rail AND 3-Rail. 

 

To answer the original question, I have never seen a factory painted black model of the GN S-2 from either MTH nor Sunset/3rd Rail.

Fred and Hotwater.  Thanks for your input.  Jim

I have the MTH S-2 in Glacier colors.  While visiting Glacier Park in 2005 and 2006 I could see where Great Northern drew its inspiration for the color scheme.  I also have the S-2 in N Scale as made for Con Cor by Kato.  In N Scale they made the Glacier colored one and a black and silver one but with Great Northern lettering in a fictional road no.

Jim,

 

Sorry about that, I thought you were asking about the "REAL" Trains. Didn't read it closely enough!

 

Fred

Jim, I can't answer about the real engine, but I have seen 2 black versions of the Sunset 3rd rail model here in Minnesota.  In fact, I expect to see one of them tomorrow at a local train show where a guy has been trying to sell his.

 

Nick

Jim, this came from RailPix.

 

Jim:

 

In David H. Hickcox's book "Great Northern Steam and Electric in Color" on p. 61, he states "By 1951 the S-1's and S-2's were largely removed from passenger service and painted in a more economical black scheme".  There are also several color photos of both classes which appear to have the locos painted black.

 

I hope this helps.

Thanks Marty and Pat...still trying to find actual pictures of the black version to determine cab number(s) and lettering on the engine and tender. 

 

Pat, any chance you could get any of the pictures/info from that book to me via e mail? 

 

Jim

Jim, just to clarify, is it photos of the black version of the actual engines you are looking for or photos of the models?  This thread discusses both so now I'm unsure.  

 

Nick

Actually, I just saw the comment about requesting photos from the book.  All clear now.  

Nick...any photos of, or spec's for, the real GN S-2 in black livery (not the model) would be the best!  Thanks.  Jim

Jim, there is a good picture of the black version of the 3rd Rail model in the completed sales Brass category on Ebay. 

 

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

Jim: I'm not home right now, but I'll try to scan & email photos when I get home later today.

Thanks Eric and Pat!!  I will try to find the E Bay picture.  Eric, if you happen to have the E Bay item number for that black 3rd Rail version, please let me know. Jim

Thanks Eric...I obviously did not pay close enough attention!!  That's perfect. Jim

Jim, the definitive reference for GN steam power is the recently published book "Steam Locomotives of the Great Northern Railway", by Ken Middleton and Norm Priebe. The pictures are in black & white, but there are photos on pages 356 & 357 of GN 2578, 2579 and 2580 in freight service and clearly painted black.  FYI.

GN Man...thanks so much!!!  Jim

Jim, I just returned from the train show and ran into the guy with the black S-2.  It's never been out of the box but he had the paper torn open so I took some photos just for proof it exists, but the eBay link above takes care of that now.   Oddly enough, I also ran into the guy with the other black version and he too is willing to sell his as well if you are ever interested.   

 

Nick

Now all we have to do is convince Mike Wolf to re-issue his highly detailed version of the famous GN S-2. MTH could offer it in three different road numbers, i.e. two different black and a different green painted version from the two they did some years ago. 

 

For what it's worth, the older Sunset/3rd Rail version from many years ago, is no more "highly detailed" than the die cast version done by MTH! I have one of the MTH models, and my buddy, GNNPNUT has the brass Sunset/3rd Rail model, and placed side by side it is real difficult to tell the diferences. The MTH model is THAT well done!

Hot Water...that's a great idea!! You never know!!  Jim

Here's a page from the book I mentioned in a previous post.  I've emailed this to Jim.

You are the best Pat!!!  Thanks so much.  Huge help.  Jim

Jim,

 

I can confirm Pat's statement above about the pictures in the Morning Sun book by David H. Hickcox. I have the same book. There are a few pictures showing both the all black version and the versions with the olive boiler w/graphite smoke box. Ironically, there is only one picture of a 4-8-4 in the Glacier Park scheme and that is of locomotive 2584 on display in Havre, Montana.

 

I was looking to purchase a GN 4-8-4 a few years ago and opted for the 3rd rail Glacier Park version. I picked it up off ebay for a very good price. The locomotive looks great and is a good runner and I like it a lot. My only pet peeve is the cab number, 2558 is not correct for ANY GN 4-8-4.

 

FYI, my avatar is of me near Logan Pass, along the Going-to-the-Sun-Road in Glacier National Park.

 

Andrew

 

Thanks Andrew!!  Appreciate your input.  Jim

I'll be glad to discuss this with Mike, if you like, since I was the person who gave him the idea for the green boilered GN S-2 in the first place.

 

We had our modular layout (Independent Hi-Railers, Mid West Division) set up at the Rosemont Convention Center, for the annual International Hobby Show, or whatever they called it back then. One of the guys in our group models the GN, and had just received the new R-2 2-8-8-2 GN articulated. Mike Wolf, Dave Kriebel, and Andy E. were all watching the big articulated running with a nice long freight train. I think Andy commented that the "big green R-2 has been an EXCELLENT seller", and Mike nodded agreement. I turned and said to Mike, "Do you know WHY it is such a great seller?", and he said "Sure, but tell me YOUR reason!". I said, "Mike, because it is GREEN, and is the first BIG steam locomotive in 3-rail that isn't BLACK!". I could tell by the look on Mike's face that I had him, so I said, "Now, would you like to make another GREAT SELLER? Then make the GN S-2 northern, which is also GREEN, and is on display at Havre, Montana!".

 

The rest is history.

Hot Water...send me an e mail..."rawlesq@earthlink.net".  Jim

MTH did a great job on the Great Northern S-2 (I have number 2587).  I, too, would like them to make it again in a different road no. than the previously produced nos. and make a black version like the ones depicted in the book shown above.