Intermittent Chuff on 6-28057 Southern TMCC 4-8-2 Mountain year 2000

The chuff switch has to be down near one of the driver axles, not sure which one on that model.  Also, sometimes the wireless tether having issues can cause the chuff to cut out while running.

Right John.  That unit does have a fan driven smoke unit.   He has to locate the cherry switch.  Without the engine in front of me I would tell him to pull and reseat the R2LC then reprogram the engine with the AUX code number 74.  The fact his smoke is not chuffing, I would also go for the cherry switch.  Next I would open the tender and reseat the AD 20A IR receiver, the power board and audio boards.  If the engine has sat, he may get lucky with AUX 74.

Thanks Marty And John for the suggestions.  Most of the recommendations I am comfortable doing myself.  I am not familiar with the "AUX code number 74" option.  What is this and how do I do this?

I'm pretty sure that one has continuous smoke, it just runs all the time, it has the bog standard smoke unit with no provision for controlling the fan.  The symptoms suggest either the chuff switch or the IR link.

Obviously, it's never a bad idea to reset the engine, good call Marty.

How often?  Is it when going over switches?  RS4.0 has an inherent miss on occasion if I remember correctly.  You also may get a miss with an interruption of Tender power when going over a switch.  If it is constantly missing, than that could be a loose chuff switch.  G

Thanks everyone for your time and suggestion with this problem.  

This is correct, this is a constant smoke unit so my apologies for any confusion.  It is strickly a miss in the sound of the chuff.  The problem occurs with and without battery in tender.  I am working with it on a straight section of track on my work bench and it is making the same miss chuffs as it does when running on my entire layout.  It also seems I am getting random additional chuffs, such as two right in a row.  It sounds as if a switch has some random chatter if that helps explain the situation.  A couple of years ago I took three conventional trians and converted them to a CAB 1 system.  In this case I placed a magnet on one of the wheels to trigger the sensor.  If the sensor was not placed correctly, I would get the same random chuff symptom.  Not knowing the method this train uses to trigger the sound card, it has this same kind of effect.

it looks like the loco is in this class of 4-8-2 Mountains. No breakout for his engine #. Cherry switch (item #17) is on board #52 mounted to frame. Is the eccentric on the drive wheel axle?

Of course, if you really get stuck, you could always replace the chuff switch with a Chuff-Generator.  This also gives you four-chuffs for a driver revolution.

Add a Super-Chuffer and you'll have chuffing smoke.

Can you swap a known working tender to this locomotive and see if you are experiencing the same issue?

I have a PRR Duplex S1 that loses its chuff around 072 turns and its not the engine side of the IR tether... I am still trying to figure it out.

Tug on the tender wireless sensor wires, I've had several that the solder bond broke and they would come apart in turns.

I did connect, when I originally expereinced the problem, to the tender from my 6-11103 Southern PS-4 and it too presented the same symptons.  I have not had a chance to try some of the other suggestions stated earlier.  Over the next couple of days I plan to work on this problem.  I will let all of you know my findings. Thanks again for all of your suggestions!!

So the issue is coming from the engine side. It could  be either the cherry switch or the engine side tether.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Tug on the tender wireless sensor wires, I've had several that the solder bond broke and they would come apart in turns.

Oh boy, and this was a new one from the parts store... I will try it.

It can, obviously, be the engine wires as well.  If swapping the tender isolates it to the locomotive, then those are the wires to check.

Yes, as suggested, I did the swap, with a working engine and its the tender IR cutting out on curves.

Top suspect is the wiring to the IR sensor or the drawbar riding up and getting out of alignment.  My bet is on a broken solder joint under the heatshrink.

Another issue I've seen is loose screws in the trucks that resulted in intermittent electrical contact from the wheels.  That one had me chasing my tail for half an hour.

Gents,

My apologies for taking so long to get back to all of you with updates, but with work and travel, I just recently had a chance to get back to this problem.  Well, as things seem to go, it appears I have corrected the chuffing issue, as far as I can tell under the current curcumstances, but have created another problem.

Despite checking every wire and connection that I touched during the original problem, now the engine runs out of control when initiating a command from my Legacy controller; starts from 0 and goes to high speed.  Any suggestion on this would be helpful.  I have removed the boards, checked wires, run the train with a longer antenna and without the casing, but still this problem persists.

Regarding the chuffing problem, it appears that the switch that triggers from the main drive wheel had become caked with grease from the worm gear box.  After removing the grease, I did a continuity check with my meter as a rotated the wheels manually through a complete cycle.  It seemed to work.  Now as I try and put everything back together, despite it racing off out of control, it sounds as if the chuffing has been corrected.

I was hoping the current problem was a pinched wire or a connection I forget to make correctly, but despite taking the train apart three times, I can find nothing wrong, but the run away train problem still persists.  I did the "AUX" 74 program process in hopes that it would correct the problem but no luck.

Starting to regret my efforts in attempting the chuffing issue......Help please

Check to ensure that the speed sensor connectors are tight on both ends. Check the speed sensor to make sure there is a small gap to the magnet ring on the flywheel and that the bracket isn't bent. Check the magnet ring on the flywheel for cracks.

Speed Sensor

Sound like it is not getting the command signal.  What does it do in conventional?  I have this engine and have had it apart a couple of times.  Make sure you did not ground the handrail antenna when removing and replacing the shell.  Swap the R2LC with a spare if you have one. Good luck!

Bruce

If it takes off only after you crack the throttle, then it's either the sensor that Carl mentioned above or the DCDS motor driver.  Check all the wiring between the sensor board and the DCDS to start and make sure the magnet ring is secure.  If the ring is slipping on the flywheel but not broken, you can push it up to the rim and use CA adhesive to glue it into place.  The gray ring below on the flywheel is the magnet ring.

Gents,

Looks like you are on the right path.  What I found is the plug receiver on the PCB-PCB1-OFA had come detached from the three traces on the PCB.  After soldering the plug back to the board I could get continuity to two sides of the sensor on the PCB that is triggered by the magnet, but the middle trace I could not.  I confirmed from the plug onwards to the connection to the controller board is OK.  I removed the plug and noticed that the center trace is broken.  After trying to repair it I assumed it would be easier to order a new one.  I just check Lionel and from what I can tell this is no longer available.  So I ask everyone, where can I get a replacement?

Good news as I tried to correct this, I arranged a static support where I could run the engine while stationary.  Can't tell how it will do running slow, but the chuff seems to be triggering correctly now.  Also, despite the additional obstacles, I am learning a lot more about the various components of the engine thanks to everyone's help.

Thank you very much to everyone who has taken the time.

Randy

Why can't you repair the trace?

The trace is broken between the pin pad to the component; inside the board.  I figured if I could get a new board it would be a cleaner repair.  What would be easier is put a jumper in its place, but I need to get some smaller gauge wire before I attempt this.  If there are no boards readily available, that will have to be my next approach.

I use #30 solid wire-wrap wire for PCB repairs, works pretty well.

Southern Randy posted:

Gents,

 

Looks like you are on the right path.  What I found is the plug receiver on the PCB-PCB1-OFA had come detached from the three traces on the PCB.  After soldering the plug back to the board I could get continuity to two sides of the sensor on the PCB that is triggered by the magnet, but the middle trace I could not.  I confirmed from the plug onwards to the connection to the controller board is OK.  I removed the plug and noticed that the center trace is broken.  After trying to repair it I assumed it would be easier to order a new one.  I just check Lionel and from what I can tell this is no longer available.  So I ask everyone, where can I get a replacement?

It's available - check here  Lionel has a flat $10 shipping - so perhaps order some smoke wicks and a resistor or two, traction tires s etc. Look at the mountain class of your engine for the same parts on the link that I put above a few posts back.

Good news as I tried to correct this, I arranged a static support where I could run the engine while stationary.  Can't tell how it will do running slow, but the chuff seems to be triggering correctly now.  Also, despite the additional obstacles, I am learning a lot more about the various components of the engine thanks to everyone's help.

Thank you very much to everyone who has taken the time.

Good work. This small stuff is intense. I need magnifiers and such. The #30 wire that John suggested can be ordered. Your hobby shop may have it.

Randy

Gents,

I wanted to let everyone know I did get a new board from Lionel and the problem has been corrected.  I am still getting used to the Lionel web site.  Where this model train is pretty much no longer available for spare parts under it's model number, i was able to pull up another engine I had that had the same board to find the part.  The good news is that everything is back to full operation and I have now confirmed that the chuffing has also been corrected.

I really appreciate eveyone's assistance with this problem and helping me gain some more knowledge about these engines.

Thanks to Everyone

Southern Randy posted:

Gents,

I wanted to let everyone know I did get a new board from Lionel and the problem has been corrected.  I am still getting used to the Lionel web site.  Where this model train is pretty much no longer available for spare parts under it's model number, i was able to pull up another engine I had that had the same board to find the part.  The good news is that everything is back to full operation and I have now confirmed that the chuffing has also been corrected.

I really appreciate eveyone's assistance with this problem and helping me gain some more knowledge about these engines.

Thanks to Everyone

So, it was the flywheel sensor board that you replaced?

Good news that you up and running again!

Yes, flywheel sensor for the "no speed control" problem and the grease in the axile switch for the random chuffing.

Thanks