Irregular chuffing – Lionel 6-28702 steam engine

Likely the micro switch needs to be adjusted. Not a fun job though as most all the boards have to come out to get to it.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Likely the micro switch needs to be adjusted. Not a fun job though as most all the boards have to come out to get to it.

Pete

Pete,

Where is the micro switch and how is the adjustment done? Does it require special tools? Thanks.

MELGAR

I believe its on the front axle or second from the front. No special tools, just a lot of patience. You can’t get to it from the bottom so everything above it has to come off.
Lionel’s parts site is down so I can’t post a pic but its just a matter of loosening a screw or two and move the switch slightly or possibly bend the lever that contacts the cam.

Check with an ohmmeter before putting it back together or you will have to do it again.

Pete

@Norton posted:

I believe its on the front axle or second from the front. No special tools, just a lot of patience. You can’t get to it from the bottom so everything above it has to come off.
Lionel’s parts site is down so I can’t post a pic but its just a matter of loosening a screw or two and move the switch slightly or possibly bend the lever that contacts the cam.

Check with an ohmmeter before putting it back together or you will have to do it again.

Pete

Thanks for the help.

MELGAR

also check the cam itself Melgar, …..they are plastic and can develop a crack. If it gets saturated with smoke fluid, etc, it can slip.

Pat

Mel, I’ve been down in there just to remove the coil coupler. The shell being in 2 pieces makes it a little more difficult as you need to remove quite a bit out of the way to get to it. It’s been a while. It might be under the bottom piece of the boiler that is still in place after the shell is removed. I’d take plenty of pictures as you get down into it. You will have a good reference to fall back on. As Pete stated. Running it is the only way to tell if you have it fixed. Best to put just enough of it back together to test. The fact that it came off the shelf. Check that the switch itself that the lever strikes moves freely up and down without hanging up.

Dave, Mel, if you remove the siderods you can turn the wheelset by hand and with a ohmmeter on the switch you can tell if you get 4 connections per revolution.

Given the time it takes to reach the switch I would replace it. They are cheap but known to fail. Its actually a common falure.

Pete

Pete,  Good call on the ohmmeter. I’m a mechanic. I should know that.

If I have to dig down to the switch, I typically consider replacing it while I'm there.

Pete (Norton), Dave C., Pat (harmonyards), and John (GRJ),

Gentlemen - Thanks for expert advice.

I don't want to do my own repair job on this and I'm not sure it's worth repairing, although the locomotive itself is very nice. I may just run it with the sounds turned off. The irregular chuffing is annoying to listen to.

MELGAR

@Dave_C posted:

Pete,  Good call on the ohmmeter. I’m a mechanic. I should know that.

I don’t wanna be a mechanic anymore Dave, …..as Hermy says,…..I want to be a …..dentist …..

Pat

@MELGAR posted:

Pete (Norton), Dave C., Pat (harmonyards), and John (GRJ),

Gentlemen - Thanks for expert advice.

I don't want to do my own repair job on this and I'm not sure it's worth repairing, although the locomotive itself is very nice. I may just run it with the sounds turned off. The irregular chuffing is annoying to listen to.

MELGAR

There may be a switch on the tender for Railsounds/Signal sounds. Going to Signal Sounds will just give whistle and bell.

Pete

Pat, I always used a test light. I had a meter. It grew cob webs. When technology changed with the need to measure different voltages.. My go to tool was a Power Probe. Plenty of dealings with a chuff switch on steroids. They used to use them in School Bus Stop signs. They weren’t so great sitting outside the vehicle in the NE cold. They use to ice up. The last go round of development they built a heating element around them. Fun times.

Pete’s mention of using an ohmmeter to check the 4 chuffs sure beats the trial and error method of running it. I’ve used a meter before to check the chuff. Usually by turning the flywheel and not enough hands to do everything. Dropping the rod and turning the driver. Is something I never thought of.

Dave. My go to method of increasing chuff rate is swap the cam out with a four lobe.

Lobe height differences of as little as .010-.015” can be the difference between the switch open all the time or closed all the time, both translate to zero chuffs.

Ohmmeter in beep mode will tell immediately if you have 4 chuffs without have to watch the display. Trouble light will do the same.

Pete

@RickO posted:

It looks like the chuff switch is "unavailable "anyway.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...LOCO-ONLY-6208702001

It's 50 cents and available according to that page.

My "go to" method of going to 4-chuffs is my Chuff-Generator.

Your right John.post deleted

The format of Lionels parts site on my phone, has "unavailable " next to the chuff switch on the list. "Unavailable" is actually for the cab window listed above it.

Given the amount of teardown to get to the chuff switch. Your generator would seem like a much more practical option.

If you think the teardown of this one would be bad, you should see where they put the chuff switch in the Vision Line CC2!  Mine is skipping chuffs, and after taking a look, I'm putting the Chuff-Generator in it, no way I want to take all that stuff out!

@RickO posted:

Given the amount of teardown to get to the chuff switch. Your generator would seem like a much more practical option.

Cough. TMCC Niagara. Cough.

Just curious whether MTH also uses a mechanical chuff generator. It seems to me chuffing could be triggered more easily electronically off the tach tape.

MELGAR

Its a trade off. Niagara has more screws, the 0-8-0 has more wires and boards. Pull off the shell and you all you see is a mass of electronics with a motor and gearbox.

At least with the Niagara you can drop the wheelsets from below and see the switch.

Easy is a relative term here. Its more like difficult and less difficult.

Pete

@MELGAR posted:

Just curious whether MTH also uses a mechanical chuff generator. It seems to me chuffing could be triggered more easily electronically off the tach tape.

MELGAR

They don't have a chuff switch, it's electronically generated.

Mel, MTH uses the Tach Tape that’s also used for the cruise. That’s how they can have programmable chuff. It counts so many stripes and chuffs. EOB used the same idea and K-Line at the very end with Tank Engine did something similar. John’s Chuff Generator uses the flywheel tape method also.

I have this engine. It was odd that the 0-8-0 came with 4 chuffs and a wireless tether and the B&A Ten Wheeler came with one chuff and a 4 wire tether. Both in the same catalog and both with new tooling. I recently dug out my 10 Wheeler and put ERR cruise M in it for more speed steps, added a backup light and added John’s Chuff Generator.

@Dave_C posted:

Mel, MTH uses the Tach Tape that’s also used for the cruise. That’s how they can have programmable chuff. It counts so many stripes and chuffs. EOB used the same idea and K-Line at the very end with Tank Engine did something similar. John’s Chuff Generator uses the flywheel tape method also.

I have this engine. It was odd that the 0-8-0 came with 4 chuffs and a wireless tether and the B&A Ten Wheeler came with one chuff and a 4 wire tether. Both in the same catalog and both with new tooling. I recently dug out my 10 Wheeler and put ERR cruise M in it for more speed steps, added a backup light and added John’s Chuff Generator.

I've been waiting for Lionel to rerun the B&A Ten Wheeler. I assume you are referring to a TMCC version with one chuff and a 4 wire tether. I may look into installing GRJ's chuff generator.

MELGAR

@Dave_C posted:

Pat, I always used a test light. I had a meter. It grew cob webs. When technology changed with the need to measure different voltages.. My go to tool was a Power Probe. Plenty of dealings with a chuff switch on steroids. They used to use them in School Bus Stop signs. They weren’t so great sitting outside the vehicle in the NE cold. They use to ice up. The last go round of development they built a heating element around them. Fun times.

Pete’s mention of using an ohmmeter to check the 4 chuffs sure beats the trial and error method of running it. I’ve used a meter before to check the chuff. Usually by turning the flywheel and not enough hands to do everything. Dropping the rod and turning the driver. Is something I never thought of.

I cheat like H-E-double toothpicks, and use the continuity tester, and just ring the switch, until I get four solid beeps, if any are erratic, I make the adjustments based off that, and it’s usually perfect,……

BTW, when I worked fleet maintenance in Nags Head NC, I got rid of every micro switch on every garbage truck we had, …..salt air/water would kill them in short order,……we went to proximity switches, and life got a lot better……amazing they  would still read rust,….😁…I even bought the pricey ones with the red & green go-no-go LED’s …..made diagnostics a breeze, ……all my mechanics sung songs of praise to me!!….

Pat